Pwnd! Like no tomorrow! SPOILERS

...felt like bumping this:

Originally posted by DigiMark007
The Bad:
- Fans won't realize that Pete, when angry, has ripped a new one for numerous people in his rogues gallery. This isn't an isolated occurence, and has to be taken into consideration with all of his other showings. It doesn't automatically make Fisk completely sh*t in a fight.
- Mad or not, KP deserves better. Screw you, Straczynski.

The Good:
- Cool fight, and yes it shows what Spidey can do when angry.
- I've been using the webbing-in-the-throat argument on the forums for years now, notably in a few debates about SM/Wolverine. Finally there's some on-panel evidence to back me up.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I dunno man you were complaining Spiderman doesnt get enough love, you said Marvel has forgotten that Spidermans been upgraded. Surely an upgraded Spiderman should kick his ass. The only thing is that KP didnt even have a plan.

That was when Cap won their recent encounter, and it was a valid complaint. And I'm almost as big a KP fan as Spidey, so this is a rare exception where I actually mind Pete whupping the f*ck out of someone. They have no problems having Pete getting his ass handed to him in his other titles, or jobbing in crossovers, but can't respect his continuity with the Kingpin.

Yes, Pete should win. But he should have to exert more effort to beat Fisk so horribly, angry or not. And yeah, also because Fisk was all suave and cool but didn't have the ace up his sleeve like he always does...he was a fall guy for Spidey to look cool in his black costume, nothing more.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
That was when Cap won their recent encounter, and it was a valid complaint. And I'm almost as big a KP fan as Spidey, so this is a rare exception where I actually mind Pete whupping the f*ck out of someone. They have no problems having Pete getting his ass handed to him in his other titles, or jobbing in crossovers, but can't respect his continuity with the Kingpin.

BOOOOO!!!!! You hate KP getting beaten up by Spiderman but you got a problem with Cap beating Spiderman? KP isnt even enhanced.

Originally posted by Alfheim
BOOOOO!!!!! You hate KP getting beaten up by Spiderman but you got a problem with Cap beating Spiderman? KP isnt even enhanced.

I beg to differ. Fisk also pwned the hell out of Cap in their lone encounter.

Spiderman's man-crush on Steve probably was a large factor haermm.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I beg to differ. Fisk also pwned the hell out of Cap in their lone encounter.

How long ago was that? That was one encounter.

Compare that to:

A) A robot clone of Spiderman saying it cant take Cap in H2H
B) Then the real Spiderman saying the samething
C)Cap beating Spiderman villains like Scorpion.
D)Not to mention the fact that Cap had studied Spidermans style there is lot of evidence to say that there was nothing wrong with the fight.

I dont think KP has all that going for him but you think Spiderman should nt beat KP like that because of one encounter, pure bias.

Originally posted by Citizen V
Spiderman's man-crush on Steve probably was a large factor haermm.

What I have posted above refutes that even if it was it doesnt make a difference. Furthermore do you think Cap wanted to beat up somebody who was his friend and didnt want to fight him. You really think Cap wanted to beat Pete?

Originally posted by Alfheim
How long ago was that? That was one encounter.

Compare that to:

A) A robot clone of Spiderman saying it cant take Cap in H2H
B) Then the real Spiderman saying the samething
C)Cap beating Spiderman villains like Scorpion.
D)Not to mention the fact that Cap had [B]studied Spidermans style there is lot of evidence to say that there was nothing wrong with the fight.

I dont think KP has all that going for him but you think Spiderman should nt beat KP like that because of one encounter, pure bias. [/B]

*sigh*

No, my original argument didn't even include Cap, it was simply about KP's history, but you're attempting to change it to make your point. Shoddy debating, that.

Spider-Man had a losing record against KP up to this point. In fact, he had never even won 1 fight against him without a plot device. It wasn't Fisk that needed PIS to win, it was Pete. For years on end, Fisk was among Spidey's toughest villians...and better than most, and physically overpowered him on more than one occasion. It wasn't a fluke, because it happened several times. It was canon. KP also has wins over the likes of Cap and Red Skull, so it's not just Pete.

But then he becomes more of a "guy with the plan" instead of a brawler starting in the early 90's, and suddenly his continuity (never ret-conned) is thrown out the window and he's made into someone who's << DD.

Then this fight comes along, and not only can't he put up a fight, but he also doesn't have a plan. Total disrespect to the character. Total and utter.

I said Spidey should win. But I also said I wasn't happy about how it went down...and I feel like I was fully justified in my claim.

....

Your points are all valid about Cap, but the difference in sheer physical stats between him and Spidey is so vast that anyone who thinks Cap should win has their head so far up his flag-waving behind, that they can't smell anything but apple pie, patriotism, and ass. It would be a good fight (like KP/Spidey should be), and there's no doubt that Cap's a lot more skilled, but Pete should once again win.

Question to Digi re: KP from someone who knows pretty much all they know about him from the cartoon...

Why is Fisk good enough to beat DD or Spidey? does he have actual powers or is he just incredibly skilled?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
*sigh*

No, my original argument didn't even include Cap, it was simply about KP's history, but you're attempting to change it to make your point. Shoddy debating, that.

Er excuse me dont accuse of attempting to do anything maybe I misunderstood you. My point was that I didnt understand how you think that KP should be able to beat Spiderman but Cap cant, isnt that what you said? Dindt you refer to the Civil War and state how you dindt like how the fight between Cap and Spidey went down?

Originally posted by DigiMark007

Spider-Man had a losing record against KP up to this point. In fact, he had never even won 1 fight against him without a plot device. It wasn't Fisk that needed PIS to win, it was Pete. For years on end, Fisk was among Spidey's toughest villians...and better than most, and physically overpowered him on more than one occasion. It wasn't a fluke, because it happened several times. It was canon. KP also has wins over the likes of Cap and Red Skull, so it's not just Pete.

But then he becomes more of a "guy with the plan" instead of a brawler starting in the early 90's, and suddenly his continuity (never ret-conned) is thrown out the window and he's made into someone who's << DD.

Then this fight comes along, and not only can't he put up a fight, but he also doesn't have a plan. Total disrespect to the character. Total and utter.

I said Spidey should win. But I also said I wasn't happy about how it went down...and I feel like I was fully justified in my claim.

....

Actually I agree with that, as I was saying what got me was that KP didnt even have a plan.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

Your points are all valid about Cap, but the difference in sheer physical stats between him and Spidey is so vast that anyone who thinks Cap should win has their head so far up his flag-waving behind, that they can't smell anything but apple pie, patriotism, and ass. It would be a good fight (like KP/Spidey should be), and there's no doubt that Cap's a lot more skilled, but Pete should once again win.

Well no, the only thing that Spiderman greatly exceeds Cap is in strength. He is more durable and faster than Cap but not by a great deal. I think Spiderman wins via webbing and but there is plenty of evidence to say that Cap can take Spiderman H2H.

Originally posted by pr1983
Question to Digi re: KP from someone who knows pretty much all they know about him from the cartoon...

Why is Fisk good enough to beat DD or Spidey? does he have actual powers or is he just incredibly skilled?

A little of both, actually. The original explanation was that Fisk was huge as hell, then honed all of his body weight into pure muscle, making him far far above normal human beings. He has snapped peoples' bones like twigs, bent and broken steel bars and, like I mentioned, overpowered Spidey himself back in his 10-ton days.

Rationally speaking, it shouldn't make him 10 tons. But on-panel evidence until recently would put him around that. Very little in comics is rational, so believing he was at that level wasn't hard when his feats were considered.

He's also trained for years as a martial artist, and would actually be a lot more skilled than Pete in pure fighting ability. There's a fun panel where he's punking the hell out of some ninjas while training, then decides it's too boring and has all of them (dozens) attack him at once. he still wins easily.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
A little of both, actually. The original explanation was that Fisk was huge as hell, then honed all of his body weight into pure muscle, making him far far above normal human beings. He has snapped peoples' bones like twigs, bent and broken steel bars and, like I mentioned, overpowered Spidey himself back in his 10-ton days.

Rationally speaking, it shouldn't make him 10 tons. But on-panel evidence until recently would put him around that. Very little in comics is rational, so believing he was at that level wasn't hard when his feats were considered.

He's also trained for years as a martial artist, and would actually be a lot more skilled than Pete in pure fighting ability. There's a fun panel where he's punking the hell out of some ninjas while training, then decides it's too boring and has all of them (dozens) attack him at once. he still wins easily.

cool... the fat turning to muscle thing does make it clearer...

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well no, the only thing that Spiderman greatly exceeds Cap is in strength. He is more durable and faster than Cap but not by a great deal. I think Spiderman wins via webbing and but there is plenty of evidence to say that Cap can take Spiderman H2H.

Problem is that Cap is...1 Ton? 2 if we're generous? Spidey's at least 7x stronger. That's like a professional athlete vs. a 15-year-old girl, to put it in perspective. Then yeah, durability and speed. And again, the speed difference is fairly considerable. Also add in Spidey's pre-cog. And his webs. And now his stingers. Cap has skill, but in the scheme of things that becomes kinda small....enough to make it a good fight, but not nearly enough to give him the win.

Anyway, let's not make this Spidey vs. Cap. I left the vs. forum for a reason, and don't really care if anyone agrees with me anymore about such things. I just hate when character traits are ignored for the sake of a story, or vice versa.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Problem is that Cap is...1 Ton? 2 if we're generous? Spidey's at least 7x stronger. That's like a professional athlete vs. a 15-year-old girl, to put it in perspective. Then yeah, durability and speed. And again, the speed difference is fairly considerable. Also add in Spidey's pre-cog. And his webs. And now his stingers. Cap has skill, but in the scheme of things that becomes kinda small....enough to make it a good fight, but not nearly enough to give him the win.

Anyway, let's not make this Spidey vs. Cap. I left the vs. forum for a reason, and don't really care if anyone agrees with me anymore about such things. I just hate when character traits are ignored for the sake of a story, or vice versa.

Yes better leave it here otherwise it will go on forever especially since I disagree with some of those points. 😂

Originally posted by pr1983
cool... the fat turning to muscle thing does make it clearer...

👆

Glad to help. KP isn't known too well for his fighting abilities anymore on the forums, so I find myself having to defend him a lot from people who think he's a low-street jobber who happens to be fat and have some money.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
👆

Glad to help. KP isn't known too well for his fighting abilities anymore on the forums, so I find myself having to defend him a lot from people who think he's a low-street jobber who happens to be fat and have some money.

truth be told before i asked you, i had that same opinion... 😛

Originally posted by DigiMark007
👆

Glad to help. KP isn't known too well for his fighting abilities anymore on the forums, so I find myself having to defend him a lot from people who think he's a low-street jobber who happens to be fat and have some money.

My 2cents. I actually did know that he isnt fat at all, he body is pure muscle. I also know he is an MA expert. I do think KP is underated though, but I guess I dont know how good he is.

Originally posted by Alfheim
My 2cents. I actually did know that he isnt fat at all, he body is pure muscle. I also know he is an MA expert. I do think KP is underated though, but I guess I dont know how good he is.

And maybe I'm not smelling that apple pie enough.

😉

Originally posted by DigiMark007
And maybe I'm not smelling that apple pie enough.

😉

fat can't turn into muscle, technically. lipids and protein are wildly different in their makeup, and while protein in the muscles can deteriorate or be metabolised, and volumetrically replaced by glycogen and fat cells, they can't turn into one another.

anyway, in david mack's introductory echo arc, he explains a good deal of why kingpin's so big and fat and bald, and that it's not just obesity but a carefully crafted image meant to impose and strike fear and yadda yadda. he also had a hamster named benjamin franklin.

I knew someone was going to say it...

i can type faster, because i'm not paralyzed from the neck down.