Originally posted by strengthkills
I dont think you realize how strict KMC is gonna become if you keep reporting people over minor stuff.CBR is in the future,and nobody wants that.
I've never actually reported anyone. I just say reported in my post to mock Nvr as he constantly mashes the report button oblivious to the fact that he's the primary problem.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
So then can we plz move on and finally declare BA the winner...geez how many pages does it take for peeps to reach that conclusion.
It hasn't taken many of us any time at all to come to that conclusion. Nvr however is heel bent to drag this on until someone gives in and gives her the majority. I don't see that happening though, so I guess we'll keep discussing this topic.
Originally posted by h1a8
Based off [B]only power sets and optimal strategies then WW will win all the time (10/10).This is because Diana, having the tiara in hand, can block any strike that BA makes and which will result in dismembering each part of BA that assaulted.
Also a block/parry with the hand opposite the tiara hand or an evasive movement such as ducking/side steping will lead into a counter throat slash that in turn will result in a win. And those are just basic karate/kung-fu manuevers. Diana's skills are beyond basic karate/kung-fu. 😉 [/B]
Diana will counter BA's first strike attempt with an elbow/knife hand in his throat or a palm strike pushing his nose to his brain, and thus winning in the first instant everytime? I totally agree that Diana wins 10/10 without her weapons. The weapons are just overkill.
So looking at power set and optimal strategies and not Jobber Aura, abc logic, popularity(bias), or sexist beliefs then I say that these posts above proves that WW wins 10/10. Who cares if BA has a power up?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I bet you didn't know that BA's stamina is shit at high speeds. He couldn't keep up with Jay garrick and He started to give out. He can't keep up high speed. Research some?OH and BA gave out around mach 500. Wondy can move far far faster and keep it up. FYI.
One more thing. CM gets his speed from Mercury. Mercury and Flash Both Fought Hermes. Whom Wondy gets her speed from. BA's Gods were equal to CM in ever way. That would mean Hermes>>Mercury. Thus Wondy's speed>> BA's. Not only in source, but in actual feats.
Granted, Jay Garrick was stealing his speed also, which probably reduced his top speed. It doesn't necessarily explain the fatigue however.
Technically Hermes and Mercury are the same character. I think he was tricked into existing as two true individuals.
Found it: http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/mercury.html
It's kind of hard to be faster than yourself. If anything, if Mercury & Hermes power waned there is as good a chance they're slower than Heru.
Originally posted by lft4dedTechnically Hermes and Mercury are the same character. I think he was tricked into existing as two true individuals.
Well, if that is true, then does that mean that Hercules and Heracles are the same character?
Because:
http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlatitans3of311ae1.jpg
Captain Marvel is powered by Hercules' strength, correct?
Wonder Woman was "granted the strength of Gaea, greater than that of Heracles himself."
But if you bring that up, then people argue that they are powered by "different gods."
So are Hermes and Mercury the same character?
Originally posted by h1a8
Grappling only works if both you are skill enough (something BA isn't) and you counter the knife attack. Trying to grapple against someone who is waiting for you to attack will result in you dying quickly ever time. If BA reaches to grab Diana then Diana just cuts off his hands or side steps and cuts his throat. So there will be no grappling here.And my argument wasn't debunked.
Fact1: Superman is not weak to magical items. So the tiara cut him off of pure force.
Fact2: Diana is strong enough to draw blood from BA with her bare hands.
Fact3: The tiara is indestructible and sharper than a razor.
Fact4: By being a supreme martial arts master, Diana has mastered the art of countering, side-stepping, and parrying.
Facts 2 and 3 alone proves the tiara can cut BA.
Fact 4 proves that grappling won't work regardless of whether BA is using his shirt (lol).And Diana has used the tiara in a similar manner before. That point is moot anyway since power set and optimal strategy is what the debate is about, and not Jobber Aura, abc logic, popularity(bias), or sexist beliefs.
P.S. And whose's to say that Diana won't counter BA's first strike attempt with an elbow/knife hand in his throat or a palm strike pushing his nose to his brain, and thus winning in the first instant everytime? I totally agree that Diana wins 10/10 without her weapons. The weapons are just overkill.
Again, you are simply manufacturing a scenario where Black Adam isn't a highly skilled warrior and where Wonder Woman is overwhelmingly faster than he is. Your claims of jobbing and sexism are irrelevant.
Originally posted by h1a8
quote:
Diana will counter BA's first strike attempt with an elbow/knife hand in his throat or a palm strike pushing his nose to his brain, and thus winning in the first instant everytime? I totally agree that Diana wins 10/10 without her weapons. The weapons are just overkill.
Yes because these strategies will automatically work? Of course because WW automatically gets to hit him and he's not far more 'invulnerable' than she is and he never heard of blocking and never gets to succesfully hit her? Likewise, a strike to the throat, for example, even if it succeeds, will just uatomatically kill a being that takes universes exploding inside his brain and it only knocks him out? Let's see WW survive that. Give it up, man.
Originally posted by SupremeManYes because these strategies will automatically work? Of course because WW automatically gets to hit him and he's not far more 'invulnerable' than she is and he never heard of blocking and never gets to succesfully hit her? Likewise, a strike to the throat, for example, even if it succeeds, will just uatomatically kill a being that takes universes exploding inside his brain and it only knocks him out? Let's see WW survive that. Give it up, man.
Of course the strategies will automatically work. They're foolproof. This is common sense. To be a good debater you must soundly refute an argument. No one has refuted my argument as of yet.
She beats him through counter attack. He can't block a counter attack. The moment he attacks then she slices him up good and easy. She can beat BA blind folded. Now this thread should be WW vs. BA no weapons.
Till then WW 10/10.
Originally posted by h1a8
Of course the strategies will automatically work. They're foolproof. This is common sense. To be a good debater you must soundly refute an argument. No one has refuted my argument as of yet.She beats him through counter attack. He can't block a counter attack. The moment he attacks then she slices him up good and easy. She can beat BA blind folded. Now this thread should be WW vs. BA no weapons.
Till then WW 10/10.
It's really difficult to take you seriously. 🙁
Originally posted by dawsey28
Well, if that is true, then does that mean that Hercules and Heracles are the same character?Because:
http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlatitans3of311ae1.jpgCaptain Marvel is powered by Hercules' strength, correct?
Wonder Woman was "granted the strength of Gaea, greater than that of Heracles himself."
But if you bring that up, then people argue that they are powered by "different gods."
So are Hermes and Mercury the same character?
In Trials of Shazam it explained that there are millions of gods that go by the same name.
Originally posted by h1a8
Of course the strategies will automatically work. They're foolproof. This is common sense. To be a good debater you must soundly refute an argument. No one has refuted my argument as of yet.She beats him through counter attack. He can't block a counter attack. The moment he attacks then she slices him up good and easy. She can beat BA blind folded. Now this thread should be WW vs. BA no weapons.
Till then WW 10/10.
They 'automatically work' IF she is incredibly faster than him. Nobody has proven that. I've read dozens upon dozens of Wonder Woman comics and Black Adam stuff though I'm more familiar with her. I've been accused of not knowing WW that well but most of the stuff I don't know is from the Justice League. I know her quite well in her own comic. The problem is that all the speed arguments hinge on examples where she is doing things far beyond her abilities as established by her standard and, on top of that, one other example where Black Adam is suddenly performing well below his established standard. This is a guy who is fast enough to trade blows with Superman and with Superboy/man-Prime and is gifted with the speed of a god of speed but let's use one example where he's jobbing for Jay Garrick (I believe someone even mentioned there were some extenuating circumstances even then that were conveniently not mentioned). That would be as bad as if I invoked World War III. I haven't invoked it because its as ridiculous as the examples that are being used to argue that WW would win. Its way outside the standard.
I'll play the game just to show it isn't an irrefutable argument. In fact, I already did once. You are arguing that she can fight at maximum effectiveness while he must fight stupidly. In a sense, you are invoking WWIII when he's in a berserk rage. Your scenario also requires that she catches him by total surprise and that he doesn't even know what her tiara can do. All he has to do is not throw an all-out punch but just grapple. She has no room to throw or strike with force and you have not proven that she can slice his hands off. Yeah he'll get cut but it would be worth it if he grapples her.
And that's if he doesn't just say, "Shazam! Shazam! Shazam! Shazam! Shazam! Shazam! Shazam! Shazam! Shazam! Shazam! etc." (or whatever his word may change to) and start raining lightning bolts at her if we want to go with unorthodox tactics that he has been shown to use at least once. We have seen he can summon and direct the lighting at somebody without changing to Teth. So he sends it at her or at the tiara. Now, magic or not, a metal object is not a smart thing to block lightning with. So he keeps her dancing around dodging until she finally agrees to drop the tiara if he'll stop the lightning. Then they finally start fighting and he kayoes her.
Right now, all this amounts to is that she loses. So someone says, "But if instead she had done such and such..." Okay and she still loses or he uses a similar tactic that stalemates them and eventually the results are the same. Then someone says, "But but but but if instead she did this. See if she could just do one more thing..."
The rigid fingers strike to the throat and all of it is part of her martial training and all but against someone with his level of invulnerability its silly to make it sound as if its a victory move. Plus we go back to the fact that it hinges on a speed advantage she doesn't have.
I feel that what I'm doing is going with an impression or feeling of what Wonder Woman's power levels are in general (standard showings) and same with BA. Most of the counters are extremely high showings for her and extremely low for him which may prolong an argument but don't really prove much. The overwhelming and accurate consensus (almost unanimous but for two people) is that BA takes 8 or 9 out of 10. Your tiara argument could account for that figure based on the assumption it might have a chance to work if she got lucky.
And sorry but that final comment, that it should have been BA vs. WW without her magic devices to make a real fight, please. She has zero chance of winning without those devices, absolute zero or at least as much chance as I have of beating Muhammad Ali in his prime in a boxing match which is so close to zero it might as well be.
Originally posted by D-Block
In Trials of Shazam it explained that there are millions of gods that go by the same name.
Yes plus those sorts of ABC arguments Cap has the strength of Hercules and WW has the strength of Gaia who is stronger than Hercules therefore WW is stronger than Cap" don't work because the actual standard abilities of the characters in a shared universe don't always match up with statements like that.
