Who is the most powerful creature in middle earth in the third age?

Started by hollowknowledge14 pages

Originally posted by Discos
erm...uh, sauron does have a physical form in the book, how is he supposed to put on the ring with no form?

chuck the ring into the eye itself you may say? yeah, I would sure like to see an orc climb to the top of barad-dur and throw it in

a quote comes to mind when I browsed through the book to find the quote from the two towers!

"He has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough', says Gollum in The Two Towers

Discos - 💃 so thou doesnt know more than sir Discos

Sauron is a lower cast of an Ainur, a metaphysical being. They take on physical form so that they may better interact with the physical world as we would when we wear clothes. When they cast away their physical bodies or are seriously injured they revert back to their natural state. However in cases of injuries or grievous wounds, not only are they affected physically but also in their metaphysical state. As Eru has fated the Ainur to be bound to the world, bound being the key word. So when Sauron's ring was cut from his hand, not only did he suffer the cut, but the loss of his power that was BOUND to his ring which more than likely doubled his pain and his weakness.

He needed the ring for obvious reasons, but also to reinstate his physical self. Without the ring he would over time regain some of his power but not the ability to wear a physical form for he was seriously wounded by Isildur's sword which had a power of its own. No one says that an orc would throw the ring at the Eye. In all probability when the ring is close in proximity to Sauron, he would draw power and energy from the ring to regain his full strength. Gollum's statement is due in fact to knowledge of ancient history. Not because he is privy to Sauron's state of affairs. So my statement stands. Sauron is a metaphysical being without solid form as you or I, the ring would in the end restore that ability.

are you blind as well as stupid (quote from kevin and perry)...

sauron took the form of a man.....he has a physical form,

Originally posted by Discos
are you blind as well as stupid

😬
Interesting way of beginning a reply

Sauron did take a physical shape, yea, several different ones to be exact,
But he lost his ability to take a shape that would seem fair to Ilúvatar's children after the drowning of Númenor -

From the Akallabêth in the Silmarillion
... and a third time, even as he [Sauron] laughed at his own thought (...), he was taken in the midst of his mirth, and his seat and his temple fell into the abyss. But Sauron was not of mortal flesh, and though he was robbed now of that shape in which he had wrought so great an evil, so that he could never again appear fair to the eyes of Men, yet his spirit arouse out of the deep and passed as a shadow and a black wind over the sea, and came back to Middle-earth and to Mordor that was his home. There he took up again his great Ring in Barad-dûr, and dwelt there, dark and silent, until he wrought himself a new guise, an image of malice and hatred made visible; and the Eye of Sauron the Terrible few could endure.

I agree with HollowKnowledge here, s/he explained everything quite clearly already.

wasnt that taken out when sauron came backout of the abyss?

if he went back to barad-dur then how did isildur cut his ring? he had physical form

He could only use the form of a Dark Lord

It doesn't say he can't take any physical form, it says
"he could never again appear fair to the eyes of Men" 😉
His "new guise" was "an image of malice and hatred made visible" -> a physical form 😛 more or less.

sauron had loads of froms.

wolf sauron
weird vampire sauron
cool sexy sauron from numenor
nasty sauron after numenor
sexy annatar with his presents
nast big metal armour man.

then in the books im not sure whether he has a presense or not.
as...well gollum refers to his 4 fingered hand, may be a metaphor- he may have some sort of form

who knows

exa does

oh exxa 🙂

Originally posted by Discos
wasnt that taken out when sauron came backout of the abyss?

if he went back to barad-dur then how did isildur cut his ring? he had physical form

I never said he did not have physical form prior to losing the ring. It was after when he lost the ring did he lose it; his physical form. Yet in the metaphysical world where the Valar reside he has a form if somewhat disfigured and full of hate. Yes, he still had some power. To project an image of himself if vague to weaker minds such as Pippin, and to instill fear in others. Fear and hate can take on a form of itself if it suits Sauron's purpose.

Many years had passed upon his initial return to Barad-dur to the time of the war with Isildur and their allies. I quote Exa: His "new guise" was "an image of malice and hatred made visible" -> a physical form more or less.

Armoured as he was, was to enhance that malice and fear.

gollum is.

Sure. 😛

what you on about shadowy,

Discos - start posting over 2 words ❌

And then some people will mock me for my long posts. ❌

*coughDiscoscough* 🙁

No..but seriously. There isn't any topic made lately that is worth discussing through at least 500 words. 😛

lol fair enough thenm

I might post a 1,000 words or so ranting on about MY eagles

Look here.
If you've read the Essay anout Tom Bombadil, you realize he's Aule, and then Goldberry is Yavanna. Therefore, they're far more powerful than Sauron.

My list.

Tom Bombadil
Goldberry
Sauron
Gandalf the White
Saruman of Many Colours
Gandalf the Grey
The Balrog
Galadriel
Elrond
Glorfindel
Witch King

Tom Bombadil is a maiar. Goldberry is most likely a lesser maiar.

Ure all wrong wrong wrong wrong not the witchking FARMER MAGGOT yes! He stood up to a ringwraith and told him to go away!

it's time to go home so i sskipped a few pages (sorry if repeat anything)

but my 2 cents...

gandalf beating the balrog doesn't make him more powerful... they both died, gandalf just had another spare life like a 1980s video game.

secondly, defeat doesnt denote power level... it's often luck...

haveing said that however, glorfindel battled a balrog and reincarnated.

smaug is quite a comtender...

but my $5.37 goes to the king of the dead.

Yea, Smaug is good.

Mandos is the most powerful creature in the third age. Even if he isn't in the action directly, everyone in Middle-Earth is destined to die and, therefore, destined to pass in front of the throne of Mandos, he who makes the final judgement. 😈 😆

Sauron is more powerful than any of the Istari individually; and that is WITHOUT the One Ring. It took all the Istari to drive him from Dol Guldur during the time of the Hobbit Bilbo's adventure. This was a time when he was without his Ring. Before Gandalf, Saruman was the most powerful of the five wizards sent to Middle Earth, and even he fell under Sauron's influence--all this WITHOUT the One Ring. He eventually would have defeated Tom Bombadil as well. The Istari are more powerful than the elves, which makes Sauron more powerful than them all.