Hell

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't understand what you mean by source. I know what you are getting at, but you are looking outside of yourself for God, and I don't think you will find it.

* i'm not even discussing the Bible now, my friend... it comes down to physics... if you knew what i'm getting at, you knew i just proved a point, right?

Originally posted by Deano
peejayd u cant ask me for proof. the burden of proof is on you

think about it. think real real real hard. religion is not the answer. never has been.

i can understand that you fear what will happen to you when you die, and you choose a religion to help you. but there is nothing to fear. you cannot die. we are infinite conciousness

religions are there to discourage consciousness from seeing beyond the program because they are focused on one predominant belief or goal. its obvious, you just have to let go of fear.

* wow, this really makes sense... it is pretty obvious that we have different opinions, however only i am the one who you want to give proof, when you can't even refute my argument outside the Bible... you are very one-sided, my friend... 😉

You will never really be happy if you are looking for something outside your own self...god or what ever..

* but i am happy... 🙂

Just to make you happy had to say it.DMB
PS the Rock sucks RVD is the man.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i'm not even discussing the Bible now, my friend... it comes down to physics... if you knew what i'm getting at, you knew i just proved a point, right?

* wow, this really makes sense... it is pretty obvious that we have different opinions, however only i am the one who you want to give proof, when you can't even refute my argument outside the Bible... you are very one-sided, my friend... 😉

i can refute it and i have done it countless of times on this forum.

the bible is nothing more than fairytales..based on some factual events.

i have grown up enough not to fall for the trap of religion. my soul is pure.

what if the world had no religions..oh what a wonderful place it would be

😉 😉 😉 😉 😉

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Okay here are some answers to your questions:

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For you have not recieved the spirit of bondage again to fear; but you have received the Spirit of adoption, where you cry, Abba, Father. Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared wih the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Romans 8:14-18

Okay, first off no one is a child of God until they exected Christ into their heart. Everyone is a creation of God but not a child of God. Second we suffer because Jesus suffered. We suffer to be more like Christ. And the short time on earth cannot compare to the time spent in Heaven...and sadly some shall go to hell. No child of God shall be cast into the fires of hell. Only those who never did.

Also...
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world comes, and has nothing in me. But that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
John 14:30-31

Three times Jesus calls Satan "the prince of the world". The present world system organized upon the principles of force, greed, selfishness, ambition, and sinful pleasure is his work. In His own time, God's full judgment will come upon Satan and the absolute, undivided sovereignty of God over His whole universe will be restored.

And he that takes not his cross, and follows after me, is not worth of me.
Matthew 10:38

Also for every temptation Satan tempts us with God gives us a way out. Sometimes we choose not to take the exit. It is not God's fault but the fault of man. For God has given a way out of temptation and most of the time it is behind us but most of the time we do not seek a way out of temptation.

And why reward those who are sinful and unclean? God shall not allow sin to enter into his kingdom. God has sent his warning in his word and those who do not heed his warning are blinded by sin. And how dare you compare the Lord my God with Hitler!

Hitler killed because he felt the German race was superior over all other. God punishes not the righteous man but the one who doesn't expect the Son.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life.
John 3:16

God has given his only Son for us. Those who refuse do not deserve Heaven. No one deserves Heaven in fact but it is by the grace of God that those saved by Christ can be saved from damnation and brought up to salvation.

None of that answered any of my questions.

God is still sadistic if he created Hell as punishment for those who choose not to beleive in him.

i choose not to believe in a god that is suppose to love us so much but is quite prepared to send us to the bowels of hell if we dont bow the head and bend the knee.

i will live my life as i choose. not how some god tells me. which is how it is meant to be for all of us. people have forgotten who they are.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Okay, first off no one is a child of God until they exected Christ into their heart. Everyone is a creation of God but not a child of God. Second we suffer because Jesus suffered. We suffer to be more like Christ. And the short time on earth cannot compare to the time spent in Heaven...and sadly some shall go to hell. No child of God shall be cast into the fires of hell. Only those who never did.

I know this already.....but your use of the word "child" is metaphoric and not logical. If God is OUR FATHER, then we ARE HIS CHILDREN. If I am not a child of God, then God is not my father. That simple.

You can't have it both ways, it has to be consistant.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Three times Jesus calls Satan "the prince of the world". The present world system organized upon the principles of force, greed, selfishness, ambition, and sinful pleasure is his work. In His own time, God's full judgment will come upon Satan and the absolute, undivided sovereignty of God over His whole universe will be restored.

1) Earth is not the Universe, so get over it
2) Why does God allow Satan to rule this world ?

Then God gets mad because we are powerless to fight off the ruler of this world ? 😬

3) Like I said, why would God allow a horrible demon like Satan ANYWHERE NEAR us ?

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Also for every temptation Satan tempts us with God gives us a way out. Sometimes we choose not to take the exit. It is not God's fault but the fault of man. For God has given a way out of temptation and most of the time it is behind us but most of the time we do not seek a way out of temptation.

1) It is NOT man's fault, if GOD allows SATAN to tempt us in the first place.

2) You really beleive all Christians are these good wholesome people ? How deluded are you ?

People who beleive in God have committed horrible, horrible atrocities throughout History. You really beleive that those who beleive in Christ are FREE of temptation and committing evil?

What fkn fantasy world do you live in ?????

Originally posted by ESB -1138
And why reward those who are sinful and unclean? God shall not allow sin to enter into his kingdom. God has sent his warning in his word and those who do not heed his warning are blinded by sin. And how dare you compare the Lord my God with Hitler!

They aren't really that different though, are they ?

Hitler

1) Created Concentration Camps
2) Exterminated 6 Million Jews
3) Tortured and Killed millions of other people because they did not fit his idea of perfection

God

1) Created Hell
2) Exterminated millions of people during the GREAT FLOOD
3) Killed the First Born Sons of Egypt (young innocent boys)
4) Sent the plagues to torment Egypt as well
5) Rejects those who do not submit to an eternity of unbearable torment....

What's the difference ?

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Hitler killed because he felt the German race was superior over all other. God punishes not the righteous man but the one who doesn't expect the Son.

Okay, so that's the difference 🙄

-Hitler tortures and kills people who were not German *

- God tortures and kills people who do not obey *

😆

Originally posted by ESB -1138
God has given his only Son for us. Those who refuse do not deserve Heaven. No one deserves Heaven in fact but it is by the grace of God that those saved by Christ can be saved from damnation and brought up to salvation.

Why does not one deserve Heaven? This whole concept that we as human beings only deserve eternal torture is FKN absurd and dangerous, not to mention TOTALLY non-progressive.

Christian mythology has corrupted the Human Philosophies of who we are and how we are meant to treat each other.

Originally posted by Deano
i can refute it and i have done it countless of times on this forum.

* try me...

Originally posted by Deano
the bible is nothing more than fairytales..based on some factual events.

i have grown up enough not to fall for the trap of religion. my soul is pure.

what if the world had no religions..oh what a wonderful place it would be

😉 😉 😉 😉 😉

* i may agree with you if that motto is rephrased: "what if the world had no false religions... oh what a wonderful place it would be..."

Originally posted by Deano
i choose not to believe in a god that is suppose to love us so much but is quite prepared to send us to the bowels of hell if we dont bow the head and bend the knee.

* the Bible never ever preaches that unbelievers/non-believers who does not worship God will be casted to hell...

Originally posted by Deano
i will live my life as i choose. not how some god tells me. which is how it is meant to be for all of us. people have forgotten who they are.

* no one's toying you like a puppet... you can do, think and speak anything you like... we all have free will... 😉

If God didn't allow Satan to tempt man then what point exactly is there for us to be here and furthermore what reason does man have to believe in God at all? There's a reason that christianity refers to Mankind as flocks of sheep: while sheep are gentle they are rather stupid and lacking of perceptive qualities. Fear serves as a motivational factor and so does vice. Being afraid of acting out vice works to keep the "Flock" from getting out of control. Temptation serves two purposes here: A) the continued survival of the human species (we need to destroy life to live (eat) but too much destruction kills us) and B) Control. Balance comes through conflict, and fear of conflict directs human actions more than anything else you can imagine.

God has no right to stop the Devil from tempting us because we have free will to reject the temptation. We should be strong enough not to need God's help with temptation.

God would have the right to do as He pleases but just like a parent cannot stop their child doing drugs all they can do is advize. God is doing the same because we are our own people, we must decide for ourselves what is right for us to do and not do. God is always there for those who wish for His advice but He is only doing as a good parent should.

If He is the source of all right and wrong then why question Him?

God allows Satan to tempt man because Christ was tempted and because Christ suffered. As a Christian it is our goal to become much more like Jesus and because of that we must be tempted and we must suffer. God will help us through temptation by giving us an exit but sometimes we don't look for it.

If we fall into temptation it is our own fault.
"No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it." 1 Corinthians 10:13

Originally posted by ESB -1138
If God didn't allow Satan to tempt man then what point exactly is there for us to be here and furthermore what reason does man have to believe in God at all?

So there's no point to our existance without evil ? 🤨

Without Satan we have no reason to beleive in God? 🤨

I don't think I have to go into how ABSURD that reasoning is....

Originally posted by ESB -1138
There's a reason that christianity refers to Mankind as flocks of sheep: while sheep are gentle they are rather stupid and lacking of perceptive qualities. Fear serves as a motivational factor and so does vice.

Yes, you are confirming what I already know. Christians are ruled by FEAR.....thanks for verifying 👆

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Being afraid of acting out vice works to keep the "Flock" from getting out of control.

Ruling through Fear and Terror is God's style. What makes Yahweh any better than Allah ?

Originally posted by ESB -1138 Temptation serves two purposes here: A) the continued survival of the human species (we need to destroy life to live (eat) but too much destruction kills us) and B) Control. Balance comes through conflict, and fear of conflict directs human actions more than anything else you can imagine.

A) So then how is temptation a bad thing?

B) Then Satan is necessary, and it is NECESSARY for Sin to exist, therefore we shouldn't discourage it.

What's with all the "we have to convert/ beleive in Christ" nonsense then, if you just admitted that you beleive SIN and SATAN are necessary ?

God, you are digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself....

Originally posted by ESB -1138
God has no right to stop the Devil from tempting us because we have free will to reject the temptation. We should be strong enough not to need God's help with temptation.

GOD HAS NO RIGHT.....

😆

We are expected to be stronger than a fallen Angel who has power on a GLOBAL SCALE (he is ruler of this world) who has thousands and thousands of years more intelligence and experience then we do?

Nice Try....what a fkn cop out... 👇

Originally posted by ESB -1138
God would have the right to do as He pleases but just like a parent cannot stop their child doing drugs all they can do is advize. God is doing the same because we are our own people, we must decide for ourselves what is right for us to do and not do. God is always there for those who wish for His advice but He is only doing as a good parent should.

See, the only difference is that our parents do not send us to ETERNAL TORTURE for doing drugs. They help us, and interfere in our lives when we NEED IT.....

Your analogies are POOR and defeat your own arguments at best.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
If He is the source of all right and wrong then why question Him?

1) 😆 .... Didn't you JUST SAY, "GOD HAS NO RIGHT..... and now you want to argue who are WE to question him ? What a joke !

2) Well, seeing as how we question his EXISTANCE, I think the NEXT STEP would be to question his AUTHORITY

😆

God you are FUNNY ! You are the funniest person I ever debated with ! You defeat your OWN arguments and contradict yourself so STRONGLY right in front of my very sexy eyes !!!!

Originally posted by ESB -1138
God allows Satan to tempt man because Christ was tempted and because Christ suffered. As a Christian it is our goal to become much more like Jesus and because of that we must be tempted and we must suffer. God will help us through temptation by giving us an exit but sometimes we don't look for it.

But if SIN IS NECESSARY than why should we fight it ?

I will quote you here:

Temptation serves two purposes here: A) the continued survival of the human species (we need to destroy life to live (eat) but too much destruction kills us) and B) Control. Balance comes through conflict, and fear of conflict directs human actions more than anything else you can imagine.

Originally posted by Nellinator
If we fall into temptation it is our own fault.

And:

1)God's- for doing nothing about it.
2)Satan's- for the temptation itself

Originally posted by Nellinator
"No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it." 1 Corinthians 10:13

Name a way out that he provides....

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And:

1)God's- for doing nothing about it.
2)Satan's- for the temptation itself

Name a way out that he provides....

Actually - you forgot to include -

3) free will

If God doesn't allow us to make choices for ourselves - where's the love? I fail to see how God could call himself *loving* - if he didn't allow man(or any of his children for that matter) the ability to choose anything other than what he desires for them to do.

God is a loving father. He wants all of his children to seek him - using their own free will. However - if they choose otherwise, he will give them over to following whatever *individualized* personal love they desire, despite whatever consequences they may bring upon themselves - upon following it.

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Actually - you forgot to include -

3) free will

If God doesn't allow us to make choices for ourselves - where's the love? I fail to see how God could call himself *loving* - if he didn't allow man(or any of his children for that matter) the ability to choose anything other than what he desires for them to do.

God is a loving father. He wants all of his children to seek him - using their own free will. However - if they choose otherwise, he will give them over to following whatever *individualized* personal love they desire, despite whatever consequences they may bring upon themselves - upon following it.

Originally posted by lord xyz
And how are we supposed to know what he wants?

By reading the bible, and following his word. Or to simplify - to love him, and love one another. His word is not difficult to follow, for those who truly understand his *loving* nature - as well as truly have a desire within their hearts to follow it.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
1)[b]God's- for doing nothing about it.
2)Satan's- for the temptation itself

Name a way out that he provides.... [/B]

Name a situation.

Why did God create Hell? Coz he accidentally created catholics.

Originally posted by Nellinator
1) God did offer a way out. Therefore he did something about it.

So God FIXES his own mistake by slaughtering his son so that we don't have to end up in a place of eternal torture, a place God himself created ?

Oh God, how great you are 🙄

Originally posted by Nellinator
2) Satan is partially to blame. However, that is poor thinking because it seperates us from personal responsiblity. We are responsible for our choices because there is always more than one choice.

If we should take full responsibility then why is the concept of "temptation" even there ?

There is no "temptation"...we decide on our own to do "good or bad." Maybe God and Satan have nothing to do with it....because they aren't involved....because they don't exist.... hmmm.....

Originally posted by Nellinator
Name a situation.

1) My boyfreind wants to have full blown wild sex...what do I do ? Oh, what do I do ?

2) Hitler wants to take over Germany and exterminate millions of people.....

Originally posted by amity75
Why did God create Hell? Coz he accidentally created catholics.

🙄