Originally posted by Raptor22
h1a8 while your math may very well be spot on but application is faulty. let me try to explain. u have an object (supes arm) lets say it weighs 25 lbs. (the numbers dont really matter just the idea behind them) with a surface area of lets say 5 square inches x 5 (supes fist), striking a object 1600 lbs sending it flying atleast 17000 mph. were trying to figure out how much force is needed from the 25lb object to send 1600lbs 17000mph. and ur saying it takes millions of tons. lets say 25 million to use a nice round number. my computer is down and im using my cell so i have to seperate it into a few posts.
I claimed it was a collision problem which is a little more complicated. Also finding the true amount is difficult too and that is why I only calculated a proven underestimate. Underestimates (lower bounds) are the only thing need to prove feats. FWIW, Superman's final fist velocity (moment of impact) had to be at least 60 times greater than Lobo's launch speed since momentum is conserved (Pi=Pf), Lobo is 64 times more massive than Superman's arm (according to your 25lbs), collision was inelastic, and Superman's fist velocity after impact was at least 0 in the forward direction.
continued. but 25million tons of what. im assuming pressure. which would be measured in lbs per square inch or psi. since his fist has a surface area of 5si x5si that = 25 square inches. and if ur applying 25mill tons over that surface u would get 1million tons per square inch. so supes fist is striking at 1 million tons per square inch. how much weight is needed to generate 1 millions tons of pressure? obviously 1 million tons. how much strength would it take supes to punch with the same amount of force? impossible to tell. because the force generated by a punch is not equal to a persons strength.
Strength/Force of a punch is always <<<<< than a person's actual strength. You have air resistance, young's modulus, etc. to contend with. That means Superman used more strength to send Lobo away than the result showed. That is why I only calculate underestimates of everything. It keeps me valid.
u and someone else could be the same size and weight but they could be able to lift 300 lbs and punch with a force of 200 lbs per square inch, while u could only be able to lift 200 lbs but with better form and faster hand speed be able to strike with a force of 300 lbs per square inch. its not strength that generates the force but arm speed. strength helps generate the speed but would only be one of the many factors determing the arm speed.
I have to disagree with you here. Assuming the two have the same form/ swing distance and hardness of fist then the stronger will punch harder. Why? Because they have to use their strength solely to accelerate their fist foward. So stronger that one is, then the more their acceleration will be (as in F=MA).
I played baseball most of my life (from little league to division 1). I did research on why can pitchers throw a baseball faster than someone stronger (like a bodybuilder). I found that there is a bone near the elbow that remains soft before the age of 18. After 18, this bones hardens and thus it is near impossible to flex the arm beyond a certain point. While under 18 a boy can lengthen and stretch this bone just by throwing fastballs and thus can flex his arm more and more deeper. To make a longer story short, a pitcher can throw harder than someone who is stronger and who uses the exact same mechanics is simply because the pitcher uses significantly more distance to accelerate the ball (distance gain from legs to arms to wrist to fingers). Remember distance of acceleration is a factor that also determines the final velocity.
I also did research on 10 people of different sizes, shapes, and levels of fitness (something I may publish in the future) on squatting strength vs. jumping height. According to my findings and equations in which I developed, Jumping height is directly proportional to squatting strength and inversely proportional to the person's mass. And this is accurate to the nearest half of inch. P.S. I made sure everyone used the same accelerating distance and had them perform multiple trials.
since u cant quantify the value of the other variables that factor in u cant know how much strength was involved. and the majority amount of speed i think was generated not by his strength but by his super speed. just like the flash. the power from his punches come from his speed not strength, he can punch with millions of pounds of force but i dout he could lift me with just strength. so its the speed that generates the power/force and the amount of strength it takes to generate that is unknown due to the other unquantifiable variables. i hope that all made as much sense as it did in my head.
Superman's speed comes from his incredible strength. Flash operates in the speed force and Zoom manipulates time. Superman uses pure force and will to achieve his speed nothing more.
Whether you agree or not the point is moot anyway. Simply because practical strength is the only thing relevant in a forum fight.
A character can cheat their arse off and generate a blow that is 1000 times their strength should allow by using outside variables. As long as a character can use it in a battle then it is equivalent to them actually having the strength. IMO some of Thor's hitting power comes from the hammer moving on its own in the direction of the blow. This is because Mjolnir can move through the air as if it is alive under Thor's command. It can go in circles, it can fly straight, etc. So who cares if Thor can or cannot hit with mountain shattering blows under his own power. All that matters is that he can do so in battle.
basically just because a character can generate x amount of force with a punch does not mean that they can lift the same amount in weight.
This is true. Because it depends on the distance one uses to accelerate. For example, theoretically, I a mere human can generate 1 million tons of force (or any amount over that) provided I'm indestructible and have unlimited energy and distance in which to accelerate. When one is lifting something they have no slack/head start (no distance to use to accelerate before they lift the object).
Great debating though. You are better than most.