Superman vs Mangog

Started by xJLxKing53 pages
xJLxKing Senior Member

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I never stopped anyone from using PC green lantern feats, nor do I see the relevance for that in this thread. Superman's origin tales let us know that he interacted with the legion, not that every single PC event with them ever occurred. Completely different things.

No, there has to be. Specifically assuming that a character grows weaker is just plain ridiculous.

The Superman Origins prove that Superman did in fact have adventures with the LOSH were true.

There is a difference between a character being de-powered like not having the same power, and a character being toned down to avoid crap like PC feats. I wouldn't mind people using feat from the 70-80's, but when someone uses feats from that era only and maybe 1 or 2 from the present that shows that there is something weird going on

Kris Blaze Restricted

Yes, superman had adventures with them. Show me how this suddenly makes all of his PC adventures with them valid? Those times do not exist. If an event is specifically referred, you have to think of it as the first time it ever happened. The PC era has ceased to exist for Superman, those events never transpired.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
The Superman Origins prove that Superman did in fact have adventures with the LOSH were true.

There is a difference between a character being de-powered like not having the same power, and a character being toned down to avoid crap like PC feats. I wouldn't mind people using feat from the 70-80's, but when someone uses feats from that era only and maybe 1 or 2 from the present that shows that there is something weird going on


And when exactly did these insane feats stop? You're deluded if you think that they stopped using ridiculous feats back then. Thor not long ago pushed back time and his own destiny by turning the world engine. Hercules held up the heavens themselves. And it goes on and on. Marvel's consistency regarding nonsense and bullshit has been steadfast and non wavering through the years. I'm also curious about what feats of these would be so invalid? Did Mjolnir suddenly become incapable of manipulating energy when I was looking away? I seem to recall that happening several times in the late 90s. I also seem to recall Mangog not losing his super-strength. Just like I also seem to recall Thor not losing his super-strength. In fact, it, like Hercules', is as unlimited as it ever was.

It's not my fault that DC needed a retcon to go from sneezing planets to making up science.

Bentley Seitei

Originally posted by Starscream M
ohmygod, you're ridiculous

so unless a writer directly spells it out for ya, you'd never accept a character being weaker than previous even if his feats indicate?

wow.

Because that would be nonsense 😕

Low feats to make plots work happen all the time, they don't retcon what the characters previously did.

Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

Specific Pre Crisis comics have been mentioned and not just events.

As for the 'admissible feats or not', it shouldn't be generalized but each case should be discussed.

Kris Blaze Restricted

Originally posted by Philosophía
As for the 'admissible feats or not', it shouldn't be generalized but each case should be discussed.

This right here.

No one rule or decision can hope to justly cover all incidents in comics.

gogogadgetgo Senior Member

here's thor 249, will post 250 probably later on.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6067/thor24902.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4343/thor24903.jpg
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/8010/thor24904.jpg
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1812/thor24905.jpg
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9241/thor24906.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6258/thor24907.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7025/thor24908.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5459/thor24909.jpg
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7545/thor24910.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8978/thor24911.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4791/thor24912.jpg
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9214/thor24913.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1649/thor24914.jpg
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1094/thor24915.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1492/thor24916o.jpg
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5180/thor24917.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7632/thor24918.jpg

gogogadgetgo Senior Member

here's issue 250

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1110/thor25001.jpg
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/9508/thor25002.jpg
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/2692/thor25003.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5017/thor25004.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6770/thor25005.jpg
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3436/thor25006.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2199/thor25007.jpg
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/685/thor25008.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4425/thor25009.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5503/thor25010a.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3889/thor25011.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4250/thor25012.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8917/thor25013.jpg
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7043/thor25014.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5168/thor25015.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7850/thor25016.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9643/thor25017.jpg

ok, so that's most of mangog's appearances. all that's left is the arc with the thanos clone i think.

Batman-Prime Kryptonian Scientist

If Superman uses only his strength he will lose. But with Speed, Strength, flying and all his other abilities he will win 🙂. Based on those scans.

Starscream M Senior Member

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
This right here.

No one rule or decision can hope to justly cover all incidents in comics.

perhaps, what rule can we create to eliminate feats like thor lifting midgard serpent from being used?

I guess it would fall under PIS

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yes, superman had adventures with them. Show me how this suddenly makes all of his PC adventures with them valid? Those times do not exist. If an event is specifically referred, you have to think of it as the first time it ever happened. The PC era has ceased to exist for Superman, those events never transpired.
Untrue. Superman mentioned not having seen the Legion since before Crisis on Infinite Earths. Making the pre-crisis stories with he and them valid.

Also, Batman mentioned a pre-crisis JLA adventure/mini with the JLA fighting Mordru, iirc. I believe a blurb even told us the issue.

Clearly those events exist, and happened.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Also, For the Man Who Has Everything is in continuity as well now, and took place prior to the Superman reboot.

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

Originally posted by Starscream M
perhaps, what rule can we create to eliminate feats like thor lifting midgard serpent from being used?

I guess it would fall under PIS

so you're basically trying to form a lynch mob against thor's canon comic feats?

gtfo

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
edit: copy pasted this from somewhere...voodoo physics? projectiles? i was talking something aching to rockets and not just projeciles

Physics Concepts

Let's have a look at how you can use Newton's Second Law to figure out how fast your rocket will go. First we need to understand

* Velocity
* Acceleration
* Force

then we'll put them together to find your rocket's speed.

[Rockets are not projectiles!!!!!!

Rockets have positive acceleration projectile don't. This is because there are thrusters on rockets and nothing but gravity and wind resistance on projectiles (slowing them down).

Once an object is thrown or sent flying it is a projectile.

I have a minor in Physics so "Respect my Authority".

D_Dude1210 Doink!
Originally posted by h1a8
Stop being super dense okay. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. That is why I gave you the challenge. But instead of even taking the challenge to prove me wrong you go and say the same dumb crap again. Go figure. MAKE UP AN IMAGINABLE FORCE OR VARIABLE THAT SHOWS THAT IT COULD HAVE TAKEN LESS THAN MA TO MOVE THE PLANET EARTH!!! Sometimes the only way someone can understand is through an example. So give me one.

Yeah, me... dense. Sure. :-/

I'm not going to sink to your level and start doing stupid real world physics on a comic debate. You STILL cannot prove that the feat is admissible thru basic logic, so instead you try and pull me into a senseless mathematical debate that will potentially never end.

Originally posted by h1a8
Hyperbole is a known device in comics. It is used to exaggerate things. The alien comments lead to a contradiction and thus can't be accepted no matter what. The ground wasn't the only problem. But the fact that Thor already is known and proven not to have infinite strength. If two or more things destroy an argument then discrediting only one of them still doesn't help your case.

You still don't get it? I'm NOT trying to make the Thor feat valid. I simply pointed out the fallacy of your logic. You only seem to point out "contradiction" when it doesn't help your argument.

Originally posted by h1a8
How can you pull a fcking Earth with no force? Have you ever heard of inertia? Clearly Superman was pulling both the Earth solo (which takes astronomical force) and against Starbreaker's force.

I never said he was pulling the planet with no force. I merely stated that it was never mentioned on-panel that he was struggling with both the Earth and Starbreaker (like you keep making it out to be). Making it plausible that the GL ring may have affected the feat in some way. Neither you nor I can't prove otherwise as nothing else was mentioned on-panel.

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

Originally posted by h1a8
[b][Rockets are not projectiles!!!!!!

Rockets have positive acceleration projectile don't. This is because there are thrusters on rockets and nothing but gravity and wind resistance on projectiles (slowing them down).

Once an object is thrown or sent flying it is a projectile.

I have a minor in Physics so "Respect my Authority". [/B]

rockets ARE indeed projectiles, they just have a constant thrust whereas ballistics like bullets and cannon balls have an initial thrust.

Kris Blaze Restricted

Originally posted by Juntai
Untrue. Superman mentioned not having seen the Legion since before Crisis on Infinite Earths. Making the pre-crisis stories with he and them valid.

Also, Batman mentioned a pre-crisis JLA adventure/mini with the JLA fighting Mordru, iirc. I believe a blurb even told us the issue.

Clearly those events exist, and happened.


Read what I said, closely.

D-Block Senior Member

Originally posted by h1a8
Unquantifiable feats with no known lower bound can't be used to gage strength. Thor's god engine feat has no known lower bound and thus can't be used as any gage in his strength. Superman's Mageddon feat can.

Thor never lifted the entire Serpent. The first time the majority of it (if not all) was in ghostly form. The second time, Thor only to manage to get a portion of it off the ground.

So Thor is still more than billions of times weaker than Superman by quantifiable feats.

Thor was pulling against the Serpent and we have no idea how strong the Migard Serpent is but we know it was crushing the Earth IIRC

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Yeah, me... dense. Sure. :-/

I'm not going to sink to your level and start doing stupid real world physics on a comic debate. You STILL cannot prove that the feat is admissible thru basic logic, so instead you try and pull me into a senseless mathematical debate that will potentially never end.

MA is the minimum force that is needed to accelerate anything with Mass. MA is a definition.

I never said he was pulling the planet with no force. I merely stated that it was never mentioned on-panel that he was struggling with both the Earth and Starbreaker (like you keep making it out to be). Making it plausible that the GL ring may have affected the feat in some way. Neither you nor I can't prove otherwise as nothing else was mentioned on-panel. [/B][/QUOTE] It is clear that he was pulling against Starbreaker too. I don't know how you come to that conclusion.

What proves he was pulling against the inertia of the Earth and Starbreaker's force solo is his comment.

nicamarvin Restricted

WHAT...? you guys still debating? Mangog will sodomize Supes so bad, its not even funy.....

h1a8 Senior Member
Originally posted by psycho gundam
rockets ARE indeed projectiles, they just have a constant thrust whereas ballistics like bullets and cannon balls have an initial thrust.

They are not projectiles! Understand the definition of Projectile in PHYSICS.

Even if I'm wrong then what you are saying is a waste of time for it is moot. googoo dude is claiming that Lobo being hit into space is just like a rocket with thrusters flying to space. Which is clearly false.