Mixed Genre & Comic Tier Reference Guide

Originally posted by Burning thought
really not impressive? wolverine can survive 1000 nuclear weapons, punched 1000 times by silver surfer or superman?....id be surprised if he could survive that

How would being knocked into a vat of molten steel do more damage to his physical form than anything you listed? And yet, his physical body will always reform to be perfectly healthy.

Originally posted by Burning thought
i dont understand red herring comment, but yes i belive it is dantes placement is just as important because its a comparison, kain being placed below dante if hes a far greater being is a comparison of discrimination and hate towards kain, OR false placing of Dante.

Originally posted by Burning thought
no its not on me, its logic, a boulder CAN be destroyed by a lightning bolt, can you not undersatnd this....

Humans are capable of surviving lightning strikes with their physical forms intact. Logically a much more durable material would be able to withsatabnd a lightning strike better.

Do not attempt to shore up your position by throwing around the word "Logic" when you do not even understand what a red herring is.

Logic is not on your side. in fact its against it until you provide evidence of your claims.

Originally posted by Burning thought
and once again your wrong, it can depend on the boulder, the rock type, some rocks can be crumbled by human hands alone...

Originally posted by Burning thought
but regardless, its logic, not something that needs to be proven in a game, its something logically correct.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The only reason lightning does not shred the earth is because of the obvious quickness of the bolt, kains control and control of where it strikes is also a point to be considered.

Originally posted by Burning thought
no yu seem to underestimate them, prove me wrong ofc...if you can 😉

Do not claim that logic is backing you if you keep doing such illogical things. As you clearyly do not understand what logic is.

Originally posted by Creshosk
With the way things are looking currently he could.

How would being knocked into a vat of molten steel do more damage to his physical form than anything you listed? And yet, his physical body will always reform to be perfectly healthy.

[ We're not discussing Dante are we? We're discussing kain. unless we're done and his placement of what's looking like a low herald- high meta character is final?

No, it's not logic, it is you.

Humans are capable of surviving lightning strikes with their physical forms intact. Logically a much more durable material would be able to withsatabnd a lightning strike better.

Do not attempt to shore up your position by throwing around the word "Logic" when you do not even understand what a red herring is.

Logic is not on your side. in fact its against it until you provide evidence of your claims.

And we're not talking about rocks, we're talking about the larger boulders which are composed of stronger materials inorder to make it to that size without crumbling under their own weight.

No its not. Saying that it's logically correct is outright lying. You need to prove that he has the ability to in order for your claims of him being able to to be accepted. That is the way that logic works. We do not make wild claims and then accept it as true. That's delusional. We rely on evidence to back our claims. Something that I note you are trying very hard to weasle out of.

And without evidence you have nothing to support this claim.

your saying supes or silversurfer couldnt cause bodily harm to wolverine from any of their abilities to destroy him? wow, hes more impressive than i thought

not final until theres at least 3 good votes on why he should be put in said place with everything taken into account, so far..theres none..

humans? well obviously kains bolts are stronger still, his blast people to pieces, actually watch videos and follow the links if you dont belive that part.

not knowing what a red herring is, means my logic is definatley going to be completly wrong? the lightning is as hot as the surface of the sun "fact"....so what reason can you think off, other than the lighting bolts speed that it doesnt melt through the earth? i mean hell, move the earth a tiny bit closer to the sun and the worlds atmopshere bursts into flames, and the heat of the surface of the sun is several times greater than the heat given off.

ive proven he can control lightning, follow the links.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You commit the burden of proof falacy. You do not make a claim and then demand to be proven wrong. The burden of proof is on your shoulders to back your claims.

Do not claim that logic is backing you if you keep doing such illogical things. As you clearyly do not understand what logic is.

no, your wrong, ive made a claim, given my proof...then you have to find better proof to prove that my proof is wrong

on-par. beyond he can do and many of them, show me where a herald stops time please, or slows it down, but it doesnt really matter, beings in lower tiers can beat higher tiers. Obviously if kain is put in lower than mid, also all the Heralds can die i assume, kain cannot...

Green Lantern and Thor both have. Kain can die it's the the whole point of the storyline. When Kain dies balance will return to Nosgoth.

what do you mean blow up a boulder? a lightning bolt has within it the heat of the surface of the sun, if a lightning bolt strikes a mountain, its going to be pretty damaged. Let alone many bolts

Do you know what a mountain is? If lightning strikes a mountain there'll be a small patch of charred Earth.

he beats the Elder God, engine of life, omnecient (almost, kain ofc is excempt from its omneciance) and a being that is in several time zones, spans the mass of Nosgoth itself and is invisible and etheeral to those who are not purified or of spectoral, it admits it can never kill kain and its the most arrogent thing in the game.

As I remember it was Raziel who was seperated from the hub of destiny not Kain.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Green Lantern and Thor both have. Kain can die it's the the whole point of the storyline. When Kain dies balance will return to Nosgoth.

Do you know what a mountain is? If lightning strikes a mountain there'll be a small patch of charred Earth.

As I remember it was Raziel who was seperated from the hub of destiny not Kain.

Green lantern and Thor, i wasnt aware they were true heralds.

kain can only die through the reaver, the storyline has not finished, kain is purifed as of end of defiance which gives him scion of balance status, which means he has returned the pillars to vampire rule, he doesnt have to die at all...

yes i know what a mountain is, and i know what "normal" lightning is, normal that cannot destroy humans into pieces unlike kains

Kain was seperated when Raziel ripped out his heart from Elder Gods time lines, hence why Elder God doesnt know kain is coming for him, wheras Elder God knows the movements of everything other than Kain and Raz. The fact still stands, hes beaten entities who "supposedly" are supposed to be able to crush, smack, swallow his soul and do all sorts of other things to him

Originally posted by Burning thought
your saying supes or silversurfer couldnt cause bodily harm to wolverine from any of their abilities to destroy him? wow, hes more impressive than i thought

Hiting him with multiple nukes will not do more damage to him than hitting him with a single nuke or even just dropping him in a vat of molten steal.

His physical form once completely destroyed cannot take anymore damage.

Originally posted by Burning thought
not final until theres at least 3 [B] good votes on why he should be put in said place with everything taken into account, so far..theres none..[/b]

Originally posted by Burning thought
humans? well obviously kains bolts are stronger still, his blast people to pieces, actually watch videos and follow the links if you dont belive that part.

Originally posted by Burning thought
not knowing what a red herring is, means my logic is definatley going to be completly wrong?

Originally posted by Burning thought
the lightning is as hot as the surface of the sun "fact"....so what reason can you think off, other than the lighting bolts speed that it doesnt melt through the earth?

Originally posted by Burning thought
i mean hell, move the earth a tiny bit closer to the sun and the worlds atmopshere bursts into flames, and the heat of the surface of the sun is several times greater than the heat given off.

It seems that evidence is not on your side.

Originally posted by Burning thought
ive proven he can control lightning, follow the links.

He can control it.
He can use it to destory humans
You have not proven he can use it to destroy boulders
You have not proven he can use it to destroy larger masses of rock
You have not proven he can use it to destroy Planets

You have not proven he's herald level.

Originally posted by Burning thought
no, your wrong, ive made a claim, given my proof...then you have to find better proof to prove that my proof is wrong

Originally posted by Creshosk
Um... No? I said that the amount of damage they could do to him wouldn't be greater than the destruction of his coporeal form.

Hiting him with multiple nukes will not do more damage to him than hitting him with a single nuke or even just dropping him in a vat of molten steal.

His physical form once completely destroyed cannot take anymore damage.

Your and who elses? It sounds like you're the only one still arguing for him to be high herald. So is this another one of your lies?

The people is not in question, its the unporoven claim that he can destroy boulders. Please, no more red herrings. Or are you incapable of remembering what's being discussed?

Not knowing what a red herring is means that you will not fully understand what logic is and so shouldn't be using the word as if you do.

I don't really need anymore, you need to prove that it will. Remember? You're making the claims of what it CAN do. Burden of proof is on your shoulders. Speculation is not valid evidence.

And so multiple lightnign strikes in an area, according to your logic, would destroy the earth... Yet the earth is still here even after massive lightning storms.

It seems that evidence is not on your side.

That's not what's in question, we're discussing the capacity of that lightning.

He can control it.
He can use it to destory humans
You have not proven he can use it to destroy boulders
You have not proven he can use it to destroy larger masses of rock
You have not proven he can use it to destroy Planets

You have not proven he's herald level.

No you're wrong you've given no proof. Giving inaccurate information does not constitute as proof.

i was unaware he could reform from nothing, impressive

what you talking about lies? as i said, no one has made ANY weighty evidences against kain not being high herald, your debating with me now for your supremacy over the vote, if i am proven wrong or concede then thats 1 vote for whatever you choose isnt it

erm.. so because a nuclear weapon can blow up a city, because its never been tested it cant blow up a mountain (example, they may have blow up mountains in tests) also your wrong again, theres a diffrence betrween a constant current of lighting beams down, and several or if not thousands of flashes across the planet. 1+1 logic...thats what it is, asking for something like kain actually destroying boulders and planets with his lightning is just as void as showing a video/comic scan of silver surfer easily surviving kains sword slashes.

capacity of the lightning, well first the fact is it blasts humans apart, so thats a real lightning>kains lightning point, so that alone with the properties of real lightning, added in the fact he could control it like i said, shows he could vapourise the planets atmosphere, furthermore, i have proven he can be a high herald, because a mid herald or below, have they shown any feets of time manipulating (slowing as well, not just traveling). moving through dimensions, warping reality..ripping out souls..can they do this..how about, all of these in one being?

prove its inaccurate information, its my proof, prove it wrong and then its my turn to try and prove with better info, its not just a process of you poking at my evidence with your own opinions and zero knowledge yourself on the matter or shown evidence...

It's already decided in what level Kosmos, Pyron, and other characters, are? Because it seems we have some people arguing, arguing, and arguing all the time... But nothing is resolved.

Originally posted by SHM
It's already decided in what level Kosmos, Pyron, and other characters, are? Because it seems we have some people arguing, arguing, and arguing all the time... But nothing is resolved.

hmm? Pyron isnt decided yet, Kos-mos yes but pyrons still up for vote

Originally posted by Burning thought
i was unaware he could reform from nothing, impressive

Originally posted by Burning thought
what you talking about lies? as i said, no one has made ANY weighty evidences against kain not being high herald,

Originally posted by Burning thought
your debating with me now for your supremacy over the vote, if i am proven wrong or concede then thats 1 vote for whatever you choose isnt it

Originally posted by Burning thought
erm.. so because a nuclear weapon can blow up a city, because its never been tested it cant blow up a mountain (example, they may have blow up mountains in tests)

Originally posted by Burning thought
also your wrong again, theres a diffrence betrween a constant current of lighting beams down, and several or if not thousands of flashes across the planet.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1+1 logic...thats what it is,

Originally posted by Burning thought
asking for something like kain actually destroying boulders and planets with his lightning is just as void as showing a video/comic scan of silver surfer easily surviving kains sword slashes.

You're not doing a very good job of proving your case if all you have is speculation. "Oh he can doestroy planets because I think he can even though there's no evidence."

Originally posted by Burning thought
capacity of the lightning, well first the fact is it blasts humans apart, so thats a real lightning>kains lightning point,

Originally posted by Burning thought
so that alone with the properties of real lightning, added in the fact he could control it like i said, shows he could vapourise the planets

Originally posted by Burning thought
atmosphere, furthermore, i have proven he can be a high herald,

Originally posted by Burning thought
because a mid herald or below, have they shown any feets of time manipulating (slowing as well, not just traveling). moving through dimensions, warping reality..ripping out souls..can they do this..how about, all of these in one being?

Originally posted by Burning thought
prove its inaccurate information,

You must prove that the information is accurate.

Originally posted by Burning thought
its my proof,

Originally posted by Burning thought
prove it wrong[]/b]

Originally posted by Burning thought
[B] and then its my turn to try and prove with better info, its not just a process of you poking at my evidence with your own opinions and zero knowledge yourself on the matter or shown evidence...

Its clear that you have no grasp of the concept of logic or debate if all you wish to do is make your claims and then tell others to disprove them.

Kain for low herald is what I change my my vote to.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And he's still only a meta.

Its not their job to do so. its your job to show he's high herald.. thus far the only things you've shown are those of lower tiers.

I'm debating with you to try and halt the spread of disinformation, and I certainly hope that you're more inteligent than the DBZ fanboys around here who are completely unreasonable. Yes, I understand you like Kain. But that holds no merit for any positioning.

And what is the purpose oif this red herring? Lightning has never destroyed a city. Do you have evidence of Kain's lightning destroying a city?

Specualtion.

No, its specualtion. Nothing more.

So you're saying the evidence doesn't exist and you're trying to weasle out of having to back your claims yet still want your claims to be accepted?

You're not doing a very good job of proving your case if all you have is speculation. "Oh he can doestroy planets because I think he can even though there's no evidence."

Granted.

Specualtion.

Innaccurate. You have failed to prove that he is high herald.

Green lantern.

Again, you commit the burden of proof falacy. You do not make a claim and then tell others to disprove your claims. The negative is the default as you cannoty prove a negative.

You must prove that the information is accurate.

Inaccurate information is not viable proof.

You have not proven it accurate. The burden of proof is opn your shoulders.

You must first prove your claims. Speculation is not valid evidence.

Its clear that you have no grasp of the concept of logic or debate if all you wish to do is make your claims and then tell others to disprove them.

Kain for low herald is what I change my my vote to.

what do you mean speculation....its logical speculation if thats what your going to call it, you dont think something as hot as the surface of the sun, kept in a constant stream without the flashes of real lightning (incredible speed, not enough to do anything which is why they only cause craters)

you fail, Green lantern according to the list of comic characters can be high herald. so What one was it?

it seems the consitency in votes is broken, weaker characters than others are held higher over stronger characters, depending on their fanbase

although i think ill concede the argument, the titles are fairly void in actualy battles, kain being able to defeat skyfathers and high heralds does not add to him being in high herald or beyond status and the popularity of characters seem to be a huge reason to put them higher

you fail, Green lantern according to the list of comic characters are high herald.

Of course Green Lanterns are they have feats of vast power that rival heralds of galactus.

although i think ill concede the argument, the titles are fairly void in actualy battles, kain being able to defeat skyfathers and high heralds does not add to him being in high herald or beyond status and the popularity of characters seem to be a huge reason to put them higher

You've lost me now. Beating high heralds is one thing but Skyfathers is rediculous.

Speaking of Skyfathers. I nominate Tengen toppa Gurren lagann for that rank. It's a galaxy sized giant robot that can alter probability, destroys galaxies as a side effect of fighting and has chanelled the energy of the big bang.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Of course Green Lanterns are they have feats of vast power that rival heralds of galactus.

You've lost me now. Beating high heralds is one thing but Skyfathers is rediculous.

Speaking of Skyfathers. I nominate Tengen toppa Gurren lagann for that rank. It's a galaxy sized giant robot that can alter probability, destroys galaxies as a side effect of fighting and has chanelled the energy of the big bang.

can All skyfathers stop beings from taking their souls? i wonder, how about while trapped in time as well? a skyfather soul would be pretty yummy for the reaver indeed

Originally posted by Burning thought
what do you mean speculation....its logical speculation if thats what your going to call it,

Originally posted by Burning thought
you dont think something as hot as the surface of the sun, kept in a constant stream without the flashes of real lightning (incredible speed, not enough to do anything which is why they only cause craters)

We don't know, which is why you have to prove it beyond speculation.

Originally posted by Burning thought
you fail, Green lantern according to the list of comic characters can be high herald. so What one was it?

Originally posted by Burning thought
it seems the consitency in votes is broken, weaker characters than others are held higher over stronger characters, depending on their fanbase

Originally posted by Burning thought
although i think ill concede the argument, the titles are fairly void in actualy battles, kain being able to defeat skyfathers and high heralds does not add to him being in high herald or beyond status[]/b]

Originally posted by Burning thought
[B] and the popularity of characters seem to be a huge reason to put them higher

Originally posted by Creshosk
An educated guess is still just a guess.

Still speculation. For all we know its only that hot initially. and then might only get to be hot enough to make metal glow white hot. Who knows, especially since his lightning doesn't have the same properties as a regular lightning bolt, it could cool down to being a mere tickle if given long enough.

We don't know, which is why you have to prove it beyond speculation.

Funny hearing "you fail" coming from you who's failing hard and trying to weasle your way out of providing concrete evidence which I'm guessing doesn't exist.

Its' only your opinion and nothing more supporting kain being higher than low herald at this point.

Right as this isn't about who beats who. the weakest of characters might have the single ability, power or knowledge that allows him to defeat a high level character. Look at reed richards for example. He basically beat Galactus. But that doesn't mean that Reed is above Galactus.

And appearently the hardon you have for kain is making you want him to be higher. 🙄

this whole debate is a guess since their chracters from completly diffrent genres and universes.

yeh you fail..you didnt answer, what green lantern, you weasled out of that didnt ya...

well thats your opinion isnt it...your opinion VS my opinion, two opinions, you have nothing to discredit kain either, especially when looking at who else such as Dante is in mid herald, why should kain be scrutanised more than Dante is being wankled up?

hardon? /yawn some childishness i thought by the way you were debating you would be more clever

Originally posted by Burning thought
this whole debate is a guess since their chracters from completly diffrent genres and universes.

Originally posted by Burning thought
yeh you fail..you didnt answer, what green lantern, you weasled out of that didnt ya...

Hell do you know anything about comic books?

Why don't you crawl back to the games vs forums where you're protected from logic by that moderator of yours?

Originally posted by Burning thought
well thats your opinion isnt it...

Originally posted by Burning thought
your opinion VS my opinion, two opinions, you have nothing to discredit kain either,

Originally posted by Burning thought
especially when looking at who else such as Dante is in mid herald,

Originally posted by Burning thought
why should kain be scrutanised more than Dante is being wankled up?

Originally posted by Burning thought
hardon? /yawn some childishness i thought by the way you were debating you would be more clever

Yeah, that's not childish in the slightest. 🙄

BT, just so you know, I am pretty sure a red herring is a debate fallacy. Also, Kain is weak physically, even when compared to street levelers, but only gets so high cause of his nifty abilities. Also, can Kain really stop time with a thought? Anyway, Kain is definately not Skyfather, the fact that he lacks matter manipulation proves that, as that is literally required, and is something Pyron does have. For Pyron I have 2 people who say Skyfather, and still support this notion.

Just put the jackass on Ignore and let's try and get some people voted on. srsly

Skull Knight (Berserk) for mid-high meta.

Burning Thought do us a favour and go back to the game vs forum I think you embarrassed yourself for long enough now.....ermm