First Blood

Using nonlethal training sabers exactly the same as their existing blades save for their inability to cut, the following have been lumped into a tournament by some cynical KMC punk:

Match 1: Anakin Skywalker (RotS) versus Obi-Wan Kenobi (RotS)

Match 2: Exar Kun versus Malak (Exar Kun at his peak; Malak likewise)

Match 3: Count Dooku versus Mace Windu (Both incarnations as of RotS)

Match 4: Darth Maul versus Asajj Ventress and Sora Bolq (Maul as of TPM, obviously; Asajj as of Obsession; Sora at his peak, whatever that was.)

Force powers allowed (Because any match not including Force powers is really, really stupid). The conditions of victory are a single strike with the lightsaber. It does not have to be fatal.

The settings are completely even; the Geonosis arena. No interference allowed; it's assumed each individual is rested. All incarnations are shown as noted above. Plot devices, deus ex machina, and "zomfg teh professie!!!11" do not cut it as valid reasons. If you do give reasons, please make them complete reasons. "Anakin wins. 'Nuff said" is a complete waste of time.

Based on results, Round Two may include the victors... when this round is concluded.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
[B]Using nonlethal training sabers exactly the same as their existing blades save for their inability to cut, the following have been lumped into a tournament by some cynical KMC punk:

Match 1: Anakin Skywalker (RotS) versus Obi-Wan Kenobi (RotS)

Match 2: Exar Kun versus Malak (Exar Kun at his peak; Malak likewise)

Match 3: Count Dooku versus Mace Windu (Both incarnations as of RotS)

Match 4: Darth Maul versus Asajj Ventress and Sora Bolq (Maul as of TPM, obviously; Asajj as of Obsession; Sora at his peak, whatever that was.)

Janus Marius, you opened a can of worms just now. 😛

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Match 1: Anakin Skywalker (RotS) versus Obi-Wan Kenobi (RotS)

I know I'm deep in the minority, but I think Obi-wan takes this. Anakin has more raw power, but he has less control over that power and less experience. We saw in ep3 when Obi-wan and Anakin threw Force Pushes at eachother that they were EQUAL. Also note that Anakin had the opportunity to utilize just as many environmental factors as Obi-wan, yet didn't. I don't believe Anakin was looking for a fair fight; if he had seen the opportunity he would have taken it. Plus, Obi-wan and Yoda had a very good idea of how powerful Anakin was. Yoda would not have sent Obi-wan to fight Anakin if he did not believe Obi-wan capable of winning. Yoda was right.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Match 2: Exar Kun versus Malak (Exar Kun at his peak; Malak likewise)

Exar by a longshot. It's hard to prove much relating to Exar, but the bottom line is that Malak never has quite done anything to put him in the same tier as Exar. Killing an entire race with the Force, shaking the ground beneath his feet just by walking, and defeating his Jedi Master (who logically was one of the better ones) BEFORE he went on Force Steroids (amulets and Ancient teachings) gives him my vote.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Match 3: Count Dooku versus Mace Windu (Both incarnations as of RotS)

Well, this one is tough. Yes, Mace does have Shatterpoint, but that only helps him against Darkside FORCE POWERS. Sidious was unable to overwhelm Mace with his lightning because of this. However, I don't believe it gives him any advantage over a Darksider than it would over a lightsider during the actual saber combat. Dooku obviously won't be able to take Mace with the Force because of Shatterpoint and should be able to shrug off anything Mace can throw at him aswell. I do think that a lightsaber fight could go either way, with it falling to Mace 6/10 times.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Match 4: Darth Maul versus Asajj Ventress and Sora Bolq (Maul as of TPM, obviously; Asajj as of Obsession; Sora at his peak, whatever that was.)

Easily goes to the duo. Maul's a beast, but Asajj alone would give him a tough time. With Sora it's overkill.

Exar killed an entire race?

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Exar killed an entire race?

He killed the remaining massassi (sp) and drained them so he can seperate his spirit from his body when the republic was about to attack yavin 4 and he knew that the orbiting fleet would definitely kill him otherwise.

Oh right..

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I know I'm deep in the minority, but I think Obi-wan takes this. Anakin has more raw power, but he has less control over that power and less experience. We saw in ep3 when Obi-wan and Anakin threw Force Pushes at eachother that they were EQUAL. Also note that Anakin had the opportunity to utilize just as many environmental factors as Obi-wan, yet didn't. I don't believe Anakin was looking for a fair fight; if he had seen the opportunity he would have taken it. Plus, Obi-wan and Yoda had a very good idea of how powerful Anakin was. Yoda would not have sent Obi-wan to fight Anakin if he did not believe Obi-wan capable of winning. Yoda was right.

Exar by a longshot. It's hard to prove much relating to Exar, but the bottom line is that Malak never has quite done anything to put him in the same tier as Exar. Killing an entire race with the Force, shaking the ground beneath his feet just by walking, and defeating his Jedi Master (who logically was one of the better ones) BEFORE he went on Force Steroids (amulets and Ancient teachings) gives him my vote.

Well, this one is tough. Yes, Mace does have Shatterpoint, but that only helps him against Darkside FORCE POWERS. Sidious was unable to overwhelm Mace with his lightning because of this. However, I don't believe it gives him any advantage over a Darksider than it would over a lightsider during the actual saber combat. Dooku obviously won't be able to take Mace with the Force because of Shatterpoint and should be able to shrug off anything Mace can throw at him aswell. I do think that a lightsaber fight could go either way, with it falling to Mace 6/10 times.

Exar by a longshot. It's hard to prove much relating to Exar, but the bottom line is that Malak never has quite done anything to put him in the same tier as Exar. Killing an entire race with the Force, shaking the ground beneath his feet just by walking, and defeating his Jedi Master (who logically was one of the better ones) BEFORE he went on Force Steroids (amulets and Ancient teachings) gives him my vote.

Really, this is just plain sickening sometimes.

Well, this one is tough. Yes, Mace does have Shatterpoint, but that only helps him against Darkside FORCE POWERS. Sidious was unable to overwhelm Mace with his lightning because of this.

Easily goes to the duo. Maul's a beast, but Asajj alone would give him a tough time. With Sora it's overkill. [/B]

Or because Palpatine was holding back with the lightning part?

Or maybe because Mace was focusing said lightning on to his Lightsaber via the force? Jedi seem to be able to do that..

Mace does have Shatterpoint, but that only helps him against Darkside FORCE POWERS.

shatterpoint allows Mace to sometimes find the enemies weakness
vaapad allows mace to counter force powers

Lightsnake please prove MAce was holding back. As I recall, he only started faking when he was saying "I'm weak", when his initial lightning attempt failed. There is nothing that would have us assume he faked his lightning.

Please prove Mace was holding back? We're a bit confused there, aren't we?

Just read the novelization. Or the visual Guide. Or listen to Lucas's commentary: Palpatine is 'exaggerrating his weakness, and according to the Visual Guide, he 'uses Anakin as a weapon'....Anakin later doubts Palpatine's performance there was genuine and in the novelization, Palpatine's barrage stops just before Mace's body gives out

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Please prove Mace was holding back? We're a bit confused there, aren't we?

Just read the novelization. Or the visual Guide. Or listen to Lucas's commentary: Palpatine is 'exaggerrating his weakness, and according to the Visual Guide, he 'uses Anakin as a weapon'....Anakin later doubts Palpatine's performance there was genuine and in the novelization, Palpatine's barrage stops just before Mace's body gives out

It was a typo lightsnake, you hardly need to exude your psueodintellectualism here. I saw the movie..Sidious was going all out. Then Anakin started talking to Mace, and Sidious started the "I'm too weak" speech, where he was obviously faking. If you are asserting that Sidious was faking with his lightning, then you're inadvertedly making the conclusion that Sidious basically threw the fight.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
The problem with this is, Obiwan was getting tired while Anakin kept coming harder and harder. Obiwan knew he would lose unless he got the higher ground, so in a long drawn out battle on even ground, Anakin will eventually get in 1 blow.

It seems to me that you're speculating. What proof can you offer that Obi-wan was any more tired than Anakin other than you personal view on the fight?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
By a longshot? Hardly. He will win with much difficulty. Notice how Malak was a force powerhouse as well and none of Exar Kun's sith magic is relevant to a "first blood" saber bout.

Since when has Malak been a Force powerhouse? He was the second strongest Sith of his time, but Exar is the strongest Sith of his time by a large amount. And if Exar knocks Malak out with the Force and then taps his saber on Malak's limp body he wins all the same.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except that Vaapad and shatterpoint are MORE for saber fighting than force powers. I'll say it again, MAce is the most efficient opponent of a darksider when sabers are involved. He will eventually find Dooku's shatterpoint.

Any proof for you claim that Vapaad and Shatterpoint's effectiveness against the Darkside is geared more for lightsaber combat than Force battles.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I am SO sick of this Exar fanboyism:
1. He killed a race that WILLINGLY GAVE UP THEIR LIVES using an obelisk that wasn't his. Wow. Great feat

So you admit that he killed a race. Can you prove that they willingly did so? And if you do, can you prove what difference that would make?

BTW, you're " I am SO sick..." sounds like a PMSing teenage girl. Real annoying.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
2. He 'shook the ground when he walked?' Prove the **** up. Note: Hyperbole from KOTOR will be laughed at.

I believe the EGtC said it. I can't find it anywhere though, so give me a bit to find it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
3. Quit this *Vodo was such a great Jedi Master* Bullshit. He's got nothing backing him up besides being surprised by his Padawan at one point-got that, Glentract? SURPRISED by him. As in-it wasn't anything resembling the legit victory later on.

Really, this is just plain sickening sometimes.

If Vodo was just an average Jedi why was he the one who presided over Ulic's trial? Why was he the only one in the Senate Exar apparently felt worthy to join him when there were other Jedi present? Can you explain that?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Or because Palpatine was holding back with the lightning part?

I believe Darth Sexy already addressed this.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Asajj is unable to touch the upper tiers of the Jedi. How would she be able to compete with someone like Maul, who even Battlemasters realize they can't take on?

Unable to tough the upper tiers? BS. She nearly killed Anakin on two different occasions. She also managed to fight both Obi-wan and Anakin together at one point and survive long enough to get shot by one of her own troops. Even after this she still attempted to fight Obi-wan. So unless you plan to claim that Maul is far above Anakin or Obi-wan you have to admit that Asajj would give him a hard time, especially since she is one of the only other people of that time skilled in the art of the saberstaff, which could throw Maul off. Sora's no slouch either, but I think you already know that.

Since when has Malak been a Force powerhouse? He was the second strongest Sith of his time, but Exar is the strongest Sith of his time by a large amount. And if Exar knocks Malak out with the Force and then taps his saber on Malak's limp body he wins all the same.

Any proof for you claim that Vapaad and Shatterpoint's effectiveness against the Darkside is geared more for lightsaber combat than Force battles.

So you admit that he killed a race. Can you prove that they willingly did so?

And if you do, can you prove what difference that would make?

BTW, you're " I am SO sick..." sounds like a PMSing teenage girl. Real annoying.

I believe the EGtC said it. I can't find it anywhere though, so give me a bit to find it.

If Vodo was just an average Jedi why was he the one who presided over Ulic's trial?

Give me a break. Vodo has absolutely no proof to his 'high tier' strength

Why was he the only one in the Senate Exar apparently felt worthy to join him when there were other Jedi present? Can you explain that?

Seriously, your 'logic' is sort of sad here

I believe Darth Sexy already addressed this.

Unable to tough the upper tiers? BS. She nearly killed Anakin on two different occasions.

She also managed to fight both Obi-wan and Anakin together at one point and survive long enough to get shot by one of her own troops.

Probably because neither of the two were trying to KILL her at that point...notice how Obi-wan is trying to redeem her throughout all of it?

Even after this she still attempted to fight Obi-wan.

So unless you plan to claim that Maul is far above Anakin or Obi-wan you have to admit that Asajj would give him a hard time, especially since she is one of the only other people of that time skilled in the art of the saberstaff, which could throw Maul off. Sora's no slouch either, but I think you already know that. [/B]

Sora is of no consequence to Maul, either. Maul's abilities made someone like Anoon Bondara realize he wasn't any match for him and unless you want to tell me Sora is above Anoon...

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Malak was never considered a saber prodigy while Kun was.

Here is an excerpt from official KOTOR website: "Though only a young man, his skill in battle and prowess with the lightsaber had already earned him renown within the Order."

Unfortunately the official KOTOR website has been taken down.

KOTOR Author "Drew K" also stated that Malak was an elite swordsman. His Saber Form involves elements of Juyo.

Then according to the "Champions of the Force" source, Malak is termed as a "hard hitter."

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
shatterpoint allows Mace to sometimes find the enemies weakness
vaapad allows mace to counter force powers

Bingo.

Originally posted by Gideon
Bingo.

My points have been dealt with lightsnake? Please provide proof for your assertion. I'm stating that Sidious started faking when his initial lightning blast failed. Not only have we been over this and it's MORE than logically deduced, but this has also been generally accepted.