Toguro vs. Colossus

new jack answer the above question for me.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Except yuyu charactes completelly dissapear against people who are above humans in reaction speed,heie can cut 16 times in a split second and was much faster by dark tournament,yusuke was his equal then and toguro was able to completelly disappear and blitz yusuke at the end of the tournament after being powered up...I really dont rem collosus being that fast.

Like Ruuroni Kenshin did that a lot as well.

Would you say he is faster than Spider-man and Wolverine. Not really.

I mean Spider-man has been artistically drawn to appear in multiple places at once does that mean he moves fast enough to leave after images and can move at the speed of light. No it doesn't it just means the artist wanted to show him moving very fast is all.

While cutting someone 16 times in a second is not a bad feat and is in fact good it isn't anything Wolverine hasn't done before.

As for your Dragonball question to tell you the truth I hardly ever watched the original episode of DB. Although from what I saw I would say not like Spiderman or Wolverine although like I said I'm drawing from limited knowledge on that show.

Originally posted by Newjak
It is hyperbole because the only indication of the speed of the feat came from the own character's voice.

That's hyperbole plain and simple.

Your logic that it was hyperbole because we couldn’t tell how many times he punched Byakko is no different from saying Northstar is using hyperbole when says he’s punching one hundred times in the same spot. Or when Flash says he and Superman are running 2,000 mph. Or when Thor digs a trench faster than the eye can see. Or practically any speed feat ever shown.

Originally posted by Newjak
Dodoging bullets 😆

Not like Batamn has ever done that and once again Batman has disarmed people before they knew what was happening as well.

And Batman’s done those things either when he’s snuck up behind someone or when he was relatively close to someone. NOT when he’s far away from them and they didn’t even notice he moved until they realized something was up.

It’s one thing to get to swipe something from some's grip when you're right next to them. It's something else completely to do it when you're far away, cover the distance between you and the other person and move back without any one noticing you even moved.

Originally posted by Newjak
These feats have no real grounding to prove once again that they can fight any faster than Wolverine. A range of speed Colossus has dealt with many times before.

Originally posted by Newjak
And as for Spiderman replicating Genkai's feat you do know Spiderman has been shown multiple times to appear multiple times in the same panel.

Originally posted by Newjak
Seriously there is nothing and you can check Spider-man's respect thread if you want to.

Your check out Deathstroke the Terminator.

And again by that, I mean a level of speed where the user appears to be in plain sight at a considerable distance from someone else when actually they moved fast enough to cover a long distance and run back without any one seeing them at all. Or at the very least, something somewhat like that.

Originally posted by Newjak
And you are right Colossus is durable and can take and shrug off everything Teguro was shown to be able to throw out.

Could Colossus take a beating for at least a little while? Sure, but he’s going to be hurting from each punch and he’s going to go down eventually.

Originally posted by Newjak
And by the way Ironman can shoot out blasts hotter than the sun I think he would take any Yu Yu Hakasu character.

Not to mention an S-Class demon could just simply blow Tony put of the sky with a blast.

Originally posted by Newjak
Yep ABC logic is the end all and be all I mean

Silver Surfer is faster than light, firelord can tag Silver Surfer

Spiderman has tagged Firelord

Therefore Spiderman must move faster than light 😱

Yep nothing wrong with ABC logic 🙄

Not saying ABC is logic is appropriate for all situations, but when you have a series where characters are specifically stated to become faster later on (like how people commented on Yusuke's speed becoming faster before the tournament and during his fight with Toguro) and you have other characters with concrete speed feats early on (Seiryuu), then it’s common sense to apply ABC logic.

Originally posted by Accel
The problem is you're neglecting the fact that YYh characters DO get progressively more powerful overall as the series goes on. If Spider-Man became stronger and faster at that rate as his comic series went on, it would be similar, but they're not, o you're point here is pretty much moot.

Not saying ABC is logic is appropriate for all situations, but when you have a series where characters are specifically stated to become faster later on (like how people commented on Yusuke's speed becoming faster before the tournament and during his fight with Toguro) and you have other characters with concrete speed feats early on (Seiryuu), then it’s common sense to apply ABC logic.

And Seiryuu's concrete feat meaning whenh he punched a lot and said he could throw 100 a second.

Yep concrete seeing as that is his only feat I fail to see why that is such a good basis.

.........comic books have many writters........manga have one............manga character get progressivly upgraded faster..........while comic book characters don't. Hell some comic book characters abrly get any upgrades if at all.

Originally posted by Accel
That and the fact that he’s, y’know, done it. It’s not like he’s said he could hit people a hundred times a second without actually doing any thing. He actually showed his attack and then described what it was.

Your logic that it was hyperbole because we couldn’t tell how many times he punched Byakko is no different from saying Northstar is using hyperbole when says he’s punching one hundred times in the same spot. Or when Flash says he and Superman are running 2,000 mph. Or when Thor digs a trench faster than the eye can see. Or practically any speed feat ever shown.

Nice to see you missed my point where they were doing this [b]before they underwent any training or power-ups before and during the tournament.

And Batman’s done those things either when he’s snuck up behind someone or when he was relatively close to someone. NOT when he’s far away from them and they didn’t even notice he moved until they realized something was up.

It’s one thing to get to swipe something from some's grip when you're right next to them. It's something else completely to do it when you're far away, cover the distance between you and the other person and move back without any one noticing you even moved.

Even assuming that’s true, Wolverine-level speed is still fast enough to dance around Colossus while pummeling him.

Which says he moves fast, yes, but that that’s nothing compared to actually moving so fast that you run up to someone who’s far away from you, snatched something from their possession, and then run back before they even realize you’ve made any movement at all.

Humor me. I’m asking you to scrounge the respect thread and show me any thing at all that shows Spider-Man, Deathstroke, Wolverine, Jubilee, Aunt May, whoever, moving at the same speed Genkai showed.

And again by that, I mean a level of speed where the user appears to be in plain sight at a considerable distance from someone else when actually they moved fast enough to cover a long distance and run back without any one seeing them at all. Or at the very least, something somewhat like that.

Every thing? Not a chance. Especially considering Toguro is stronger, faster, and more skilled.

Could Colossus take a beating for at least a little while? Sure, but he’s going to be hurting from each punch and he’s going to go down eventually.

His blasts are hotter than the surface of the sun. Lightning is too and Yusuke’s taken multiple lightning bolts to the body and gotten right back up. Hiei’s been burned inside and out and wasn’t fazed. And this was relatively early on in the series.

Not to mention an S-Class demon could just simply blow Tony put of the sky with a blast. [/B]

Yep you knpw the difference between Flash and Northstar and Superman than the Blue dragon.

They also have quntafiable feats along with that you know the whole they can go from the Sun to Earth in seconds thing going for them. You know or catch a bullet out of the air.

Seiryu has a one feat where he himself stated even for ABC logic that is a terrible founsation to start off with. Also Yu YU Hakasu's quantifable feats have the characters barely able to run 60 MPH.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
.........comic books have many writters........manga have one............manga character get progressivly upgraded faster..........while comic book characters don't. Hell some comic book characters abrly get any upgrades if at all.

Spider-man has progessively gotten stronger in the feats he has done.

Colossus has recieved significant upgrades over the years.

even there up grades took time lots of it. Abnd abc logic does not work well with them becuase then have many different writters.

yu yu had one writter and they got more powerful at a far greater pace.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
even there up grades took time lots of it. Abnd abc logic does not work well with them becuase then have many different writters.

yu yu had one writter and they got more powerful at a far greater pace.

And because Yu YU Hakasu has one writer ABC logic is a perfectly good logic based thing to use.

Despite the fact it still all goes back to someone with one speed feat that isn't even that good. 😕

Originally posted by Newjak
You mean exactly like how comic book characters progessively get upgrades throughout their entire history 313

Same thing sort of concept applies to YYH. Or Bleach. Or DBZ.

Originally posted by Newjak
And Seiryuu's concrete feat meaning whenh he punched a lot and said he could throw 100 a second.

Originally posted by Newjak
Yep concrete seeing as that is his only feat I fail to see why that is such a good basis.

Your claims that he wasn’t telling the truth about his own attack are heresy and based on absolutely nothing.

Originally posted by Accel
Pretty much. Let’s say at the beginning of the Spider-Man’s career, he fights a guy (A) who we know is fast and manages to keep up with him just fine. Then he gets an upgrade or whatever where he is notable faster than before and later fights a guy (B)who is easily able to keep up with him. Logic would then say that this new guy (B) is much faster than the other guy (A) at the time he fought Spider-Man. This also means “B” can replicate any combat speed feat “A” performed at that time.

Same thing sort of concept applies to YYH. Or Bleach. Or DBZ.

Basically when he described his own attack. Do you think a guy wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between throwing 10 punches, 20 punches, or even 50 punches a second as opposed to throwing a hundred punches a second? Especially if it was him who threw those punches?

Because it’s a speed feat. There’s no reason why the guy wouldn’t know his own attack, nor is there any reason why he would lie or exaggerate about it, especially right after performing the attack.

Your claims that he wasn’t telling the truth about his own attack are heresy and based on absolutely nothing.

Let's see why would a villian lie about his attack maybe to make himself sound cooler.

To make them try to pee there pants. The point is word off mouth is not very reliable even when describibg his own attacks.

I mean I can throw a bunch of punches and say oh look I just threw 100 punches fear me.

Or Captai nAMerica could throw a bunch of punches and say I just threw 100 punches we would not really use those without some other backing to prove it.
The problem the Blue Dragon has no other feats.

So you saying he was telling the truth about his own attack is hersay and based on nothing.

Originally posted by Newjak
Yep you knpw the difference between Flash and Northstar and Superman than the Blue dragon.

Originally posted by Newjak
They also have quntafiable feats along with that you know the whole they can go from the Sun to Earth in seconds thing going for them. You know or catch a bullet out of the air.

Originally posted by Newjak
Seiryu has a one feat where he himself stated even for ABC logic that is a terrible founsation to start off with.

Originally posted by Newjak
Also Yu YU Hakasu's quantifable feats have the characters barely able to run 60 MPH.

Originally posted by Accel
Do I? I mean, we can’t tell how fast people are moving in comic panels and people tend to exaggerate their own speed apparently. 😐

All hyperbole. And Wolverine’s caught a sniper bullet in the air before. 😐

Except there’s no absolutely nothing to indicate he was exaggerating. At all.

Which clearly shows there’s a difference between combat speed and travel speed in the series, like we just discussed. You really think Genkai would be able to pull off her rubber nose feat if she only moved 60mph?

How can quantifiable speed feats be hyperbole they have nothing to do with word of mouth. Because last time I checked saying I can move lightspeed and actually going lightspeed are different.

Except it doesn't matter if there is nothing to exaggerate what his claims were there is no proof other than his own words to describe his attack.

And actually if you want to know the truth running 60mph could allow Genkai to preform that feat.

Originally posted by Newjak
So then I guess that everyone who has hit Spiderman can then hit Silver Surfer referring back to my firelord example.

You seem to keep missing my point. Spidey’s fights with Firelord and Surfer are not the same thing. If Spidey had shown considerable growth (upgrades and whatnot) in his abilities to go from hitting someone who can move at peak human speed, to some one who can move at mach speeds, to someone who can move at lightspeed and so on, it’d be the same, but it isn’t.

Originally posted by Newjak
Let's see why would a villian lie about his attack maybe to make himself sound cooler.

To make them try to pee there pants. The point is word off mouth is not very reliable even when describibg his own attacks.

Originally posted by Newjak
I mean I can throw a bunch of punches and say oh look I just threw 100 punches fear me.

Or Captai nAMerica could throw a bunch of punches and say I just threw 100 punches we would not really use those without some other backing to prove it.
The problem the Blue Dragon has no other feats.

Originally posted by Accel
Oy…

You seem to keep missing my point. Spidey’s fights with Firelord and Surfer are not the same thing. If Spidey had shown considerable growth (upgrades and whatnot) in his abilities to go from hitting someone who can move at peak human speed, to some one who can move at mach speeds, to someone who can move at lightspeed and so on, it’d be the same, but it isn’t.

You really think a demon cares about cool he sounds? He could just have said it was a dozen punches or that it was nothing compared to his true might.

If Cap or Spidey or Slade were shown hitting multiple punches on panel and then told the person they just hit a hundred times in a second, I guarantee you that it would be considered a legitimate speed feat.

Yep he could have said those things and no one would still take those words at base value.

And yes they would why because they have other feats to go with it that prove they can and could perform that feat.

What other speed feat does the Blue Dragon have again?

None thats what I thought.

Originally posted by Newjak
How can quantifiable speed feats be hyperbole they have nothing to do with word of mouth. Because last time I checked saying I can move lightspeed and actually going lightspeed are different.

Originally posted by Newjak
Except it doesn't matter if there is nothing to exaggerate what his claims were there is no proof other than his own words to describe his attack.

Originally posted by Newjak
And actually if you want to know the truth running 60mph could allow Genkai to preform that feat.

Originally posted by Newjak
Not really seeing as your whole point was that ABC logic works but it really doesn't.

It’s two completely different things, the latter being somewhat of an example of Yusuke’s progression through the series..

Originally posted by Newjak
Yep he could have said those things and no one would still take those words at base value.

Originally posted by Newjak
And yes they would why because they have other feats to go with it that prove they can and could perform that feat.

Originally posted by Newjak
What other speed feat does the Blue Dragon have again?

None thats what I thought.

First of all, let us just say that Toguro is only Spidey speed, he still is, you know, like 10 times stronger than Spidey, and far more durable, a better fighter, has more versatility, and he still would be capable of beating the shit out of Collossus, so this debate here is moot and irrevelant. Also, Toguro is faster than Genkai, who almost instantly ran thru a forest that was at least 1,000 yards without even exerting herself.

Originally posted by Accel
So, barring a good speed feat here and there, moments like where Flash says he running at 2,000 mph and such can be considered hyperbole.

There’s that fact that A.) he said it right after performing it; B.) Hiei, who was clearly faster, saw the whole thing and didn’t dispute it at all; and C.) Suzaku, the only other person to ever person to handle the move, didn’t dispute it either.

Moving across 10 yards and back at invisible speeds? You may want to rethink that.

For instance with Flash he can run between planets in seconds that is a quantifiable feat because we know for a fact it takes lightspeed to get between planets in seconds. Therefore any other feat of his that would say be a lightspeed feat is in fact credible because he can measurably do it.

Blue Dragon has no such feat he simply attacks and then says he threw 100 punches in a second.

Now if he had a feat like say catching bullet out of the air after its been fired then I would believe he could possibly punch 100 times a second.

But him just saying it was 100 punches not good of evidence.

Actually 60 MPH is crazy fast and could allow Genkai to get to the clown and remove his nose.

Have you ever seen a car go go by doing sixty I mean as it is passing by and looking at it. You barely even knew a car passes you.