Toguro vs. Colossus

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
First of all, let us just say that Toguro is only Spidey speed, he still is, you know, like 10 times stronger than Spidey, and far more durable, a better fighter, has more versatility, and he still would be capable of beating the shit out of Collossus, so this debate here is moot and irrevelant. Also, Toguro is faster than Genkai, who almost instantly ran thru a forest that was at least 1,000 yards without even exerting herself.

Originally posted by Newjak
Except Colossus is as strong as Teguro and more durable than anything Teguro has done attack wise and has better Stamina 😉

Originally posted by Newjak
Yep they have a lot of Hyperbole but once again they Also have QUANTIFIABLE FEATS to back those up.

For instance with Flash he can run between planets in seconds that is a quantifiable feat because we know for a fact it takes lightspeed to get between planets in seconds. Therefore any other feat of his that would say be a lightspeed feat is in fact credible because he can measurably do it.

Blue Dragon has no such feat he simply attacks and then says he threw 100 punches in a second.

Now if he had a feat like say catching bullet out of the air after its been fired then I would believe he could possibly punch 100 times a second.

But him just saying it was 100 punches not good of evidence.

We definitely know he's throwing several. And no one else has once lied about their techniques or abilities in the series, so why would Seiryu be the only one? Hiei who doesn't hide his feelings to call someone's bullshit, didn't dispute the man's claim at all.

So, give me an estimate of how fast you think he moved ( and no cop-out answers like "I don't know" or whatever).

Originally posted by Newjak
Actually 60 MPH is crazy fast and could allow Genkai to get to the clown and remove his nose.

Have you ever seen a car go go by doing sixty I mean as it is passing by and looking at it. You barely even knew a car passes you.

And keep in mind, the clown guy proved to be easily as fast as some one who was at least a bullet timer (Kuwabara).

Originally posted by Newjak
It is a good feat but not something that automatically says yep he definitely is faster than anything Colossu can compare. Spider-man and Wolverine have all done similar things except their feats generally go about with multiple people not just one.

And once again that is Hiei I would love for you to actually showcase some feats for Teguro.

And YES HE HAS

Go ahead and name Teguro's best damage feats and I can feats that out Colossus above it.

You can name some low feats all you want but I can name plenty of feats to put him past it anything Teguro can dish out.

And he took Sas's best hits nad wasn't beaten and let's be honest Teguro has no actual speed feats in his match he never even really dodges Yusuke.

By the way did you just say Teguro could beat Juggernaut if you did imply that then you have just lost points. And Juggerbaut has caught Spiderman before so the Shatterstar point is moot.

Pretty sure all I did was imply that Juggy wouldn't be able to touch Teguro...

Sorry but Teguro's feats of speed clearly outstrip anything Peter's capible of.. If you look at his feats comparitively with the rest of the show you begin to develop an idea about his real speed..

His neglect to dodge Yusuke means nothing.. why dodge someone who can't hurt you? 😬

Originally posted by Newjak
So its PIS when you want it to be is what you are saying.

Never in the series were the characters blatantly higher than most Low-Meta Beings in speed. Everyone on of their feats have been reproduced by Spider-man or Wolverine before in terms of speed.

It isn't PIS just the fact that the only time they actually appear to be fast is when they are fighting each other where they are drawn to look fast but when they get compared to anything quantitative they fall fast. Just look at the Truck.

No it's PIS when there's no rational explanation to go behind what's taking place...

I have comic in which Spiderman takes up to 5 pages trying to catch burgulars.... 😐

I suppose Spiderman isn't "that fast" either?

And no characters like Spiderman nor Wolverine have produced the feats of speed that those characters have UNLESS you ignore the the concept of saga vs. saga comparisons.. Again, it's that same logic that has people thinking DBZ characters in the Buu saga are actually slower than the characters in the saiyan saga, which if you understand thing one about power levels in both shows you would know is bull shit.

Again telling me to look at a blatent example of PIS to validate that it's not PIS isn't going to work as a convincing argument. 😐

Anyways by your own logic, since this is a fight, and not a truck chase Teguro will be fast.. and please qualitative? If it wasn't blatent PIS perhaps. 😐

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Strength: About even.

Speed: Toguro by a f*ckin longshot. The guy was fast enough to fight Yusuke, who was much faster than Hiei, who could slach 16 times before another superpowered individual could punch. Also, Yusuke is too fast to go a good speed with a bike, bikes can only do so much as the dude at the top of the page said.

Durability: Bout equal, Toguro easily shrugged off a near island busting attack, and wasn't even at 100%. Also, I think you all forgot one other thing about Toguro, his Healing Factor.

Stamina: I say Toguro, after a long fight with Yusuke, he never got tired from what I remember.

Powers: Toguro has special powers, Collossus does not, pwnt. Toguro has those finger bullets, can kill people with his aura, and eats souls.

H2H skill: Toguro since being a kid was trained in martial arts, and has kept on training, and is now like 70-80 years old.

Experience: Toguro.

Toguro punks Piotr.

Originally posted by Newjak
Like I said all those feats are things Spider-man and Wolverine have done multiple times with multiple people.

I'm not saying they aren't fast just saying they are not OMG they are as fast as Superman speed.

The thing is they do it to OTHER superhuman characters.. and the ONLY person who comes close to that from what I've seen is Daken.

Originally posted by Accel
Just curious, how many punches do you think he threw here?
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5452/yuuyuuhakushovol5c04paged0.png

We definitely know he's throwing several. And no one else has once lied about their techniques or abilities in the series, so why would Seiryu be the only one? Hiei who doesn't hide his feelings to call someone's bullshit, didn't dispute the man's claim at all.

So, give me an estimate of how fast [b]you think he moved ( and no cop-out answers like "I don't know" or whatever).

It's fast, but not so fast you wouldn't be able to see the person more at all. I've been on the side of the road and have seen cars pass by doing 70-80 and have been able to see them relatively fine (as opposed to not seeing them at all).

And keep in mind, the clown guy proved to be easily as fast as some one who was at least a bullet timer (Kuwabara). [/B]

Once again I point to other comics. Ironfist has let out with a volley of punches before oddly enough looking just like that. So I'm going to say Ironfist speed 😉

Except moving 10 yards means you would literally cross it before a second passed.

60 MPH compared to what a normal human can do is easily enough to get to someone in fractions of a second before they can react.

The tournament ring a not even half powered Toguro lifted.

Calc 1:

It looks like it's 30-ish meters in diameter and ~1 and 1\2-ish meters thick in that shot. So r=15 and h=1.5

Volume of a Cylinder\Disk = ([pi][r]^2)*[h]
So, ~3.14 * 15^2 * 1.5... that equals... 1,059.75m^3

The density of Granite is 2,600[?]kg per cubic meter (Just an assumption that it's granite; it's impossible to say for sure I think.)
So this comes out as 2,755,350kg.

Converting this, this becomes 2,755.35 metric tons...?

A low-end calucation would be ~18 tiles across with each one being 1 or 2 meters (depending on the scene.) So 18 meters across. And the ring is as thin as a third of a meter depending on the scene so...

~3.14 * 9^2 * 1\3... that equals... 84.78m^3

84.78m^3 * 2,600kg\m^3 = 220,258kg. So around 220.258 tons

Calc 2:
Granite weighs 2600 kg a meter cubed. Although the size isn't consistent, it generally hovers around a little over 10 m diameter and a little under 1 m thick. This means it probably weighs between 200 and 225 tons

Originally posted by jinzin
No it's PIS when there's no rational explanation to go behind what's taking place...

I have comic in which Spiderman takes up to 5 pages trying to catch burgulars.... 😐

I suppose Spiderman isn't "that fast" either?

And no characters like Spiderman nor Wolverine have produced the feats of speed that those characters have UNLESS you ignore the the concept of saga vs. saga comparisons.. Again, it's that same logic that has people thinking DBZ characters in the Buu saga are actually slower than the characters in the saiyan saga, which if you understand thing one about power levels in both shows you would know is bull shit.

Again telling me to look at a blatent example of PIS to validate that it's not PIS isn't going to work as a convincing argument. 😐

Anyways by your own logic,' since this is a fight, and not a truck chase Teguro will be fast.. and please qualitative? If it wasn't blatent PIS perhaps. 😐

An obvious hyperbole statement about how fast someone punched who has no other feats is hardly a good starting foundation for the ABC logic being used here. You know even though ABC logic is hardly good logic anyways.

Look at comics where low feats and high feats exist.

You know a bullet has hurt Thor before you has punked Colossus in Durability feats therefore Colossus isn't bulletproof.

Spiderman has hit firelord who has fought Silver Surfer who can react at picoseconds. I guess that means Venom is now capable of moving at lightspeed because Venom is Spiderman on steroids right.

Or you know Wolverine who has hit Northstar so I guess anybody who can tag Wolverine can also hit Northstar.

Thing once broke Champion's ribs who also puncked Colossus therfore Thing can crack Colossus' ribs.

I could do some more if you would like 😐

Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
The tournament ring a not even half powered Toguro lifted.

Calc 1:

It looks like it's 30-ish meters in diameter and ~1 and 1\2-ish meters thick in that shot. So r=15 and h=1.5

Volume of a Cylinder\Disk = ([pi][r]^2)*[h]
So, ~3.14 * 15^2 * 1.5... that equals... 1,059.75m^3

The density of Granite is 2,600[?]kg per cubic meter (Just an assumption that it's granite; it's impossible to say for sure I think.)
So this comes out as 2,755,350kg.

Converting this, this becomes 2,755.35 metric tons...?

A low-end calucation would be ~18 tiles across with each one being 1 or 2 meters (depending on the scene.) So 18 meters across. And the ring is as thin as a third of a meter depending on the scene so...

~3.14 * 9^2 * 1\3... that equals... 84.78m^3

84.78m^3 * 2,600kg\m^3 = 220,258kg. So around 220.258 tons

Calc 2:
Granite weighs 2600 kg a meter cubed. Although the size isn't consistent, it generally hovers around a little over 10 m diameter and a little under 1 m thick. This means it probably weighs between 200 and 225 tons

Or if it was some kind of Demonic rock material. To Assume granite means nothing.

Besides it is a low class 100 feat but at the same time when at 80 % he made what barely a ring sized crater in the ground 🙄

Besides Colossus easily halled the Blackbird out of the ocean laughing.

And by this same logic Colossus has held a 400 ton meachine in place for hours wihtout allowing ot move.

Originally posted by Newjak
And what if the ring wasn't granite but was in fact limestone or another very light very non dense Rock.

Or if it was some kind of Demonic rock material. To Assume granite means nothing.

Besides it is a low class 100 feat but at the same time when at 80 % he made what barely a ring sized crater in the ground 🙄

Besides Colossus easily halled the Blackbird out of the ocean laughing.

And by this same logic Colossus has held a 400 ton meachine in place for hours wihtout allowing ot move.

by it's appearance we are pretty certain it wasnt limestone

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
by it's appearance we are pretty certain it wasnt limestone

Like I said by appearances Colossus has held up something that 400 tons for hours on end when he was much weaker than he is now. 😐

I'm going with Toguro on this one. He's clearly a fair amount faster than Colossus, about the same amount of durability, and seems to be on par strength wise.

Originally posted by Newjak
Yep because appearances mean everything right.

Like I said by appearances Colossus has held up something that 400 tons for hours on end when he was much weaker than he is now. 😐

post the scan and i will concede

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
post the scan and i will concede

Saying the thing is 200 tons and it being 200 tons are different!!!!!

Saying the things looks like this and it being like that are different!!!!!

Originally posted by Newjak
Concede what that the appearance or drawing style of a comic doesn't mean jack when determining the feat.

Saying the thing is 200 tons and it being 200 tons are different!!!!!

Saying the things looks like this and it being like that are different!!!!!

So what you are saying is your blowing smoke out your ass and you dont have a scan

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
So what you are saying is your blowing smoke out your ass and you dont have a scan

Things appearing to be better and actually being better are different.

Could the ring have been 100 tons yes

Could it have 30 tons yes.

Just like I was trying to get around with my point.

The machine Colossus was holding looked like it would have weighed at least 400 tons but he said it weighed around 5.

Looks can be deceiving

Originally posted by Newjak
Or what I'm saying is exactly what I've been saying all along.

Things appearing to be better and actually being better are different.

Could the ring have been 100 tons yes

Could it have 30 tons yes.

Just like I was trying to get around with my point.

The machine Colossus was holding looked like it would have weighed at least 400 tons but he said it weighed around 5.

Looks can be deceiving

We made are guess off of assumptions and matematics

your just making your off of looks

there is a big difference

We could be wrong yes but at least we are reasonably sure about our math

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
We made are guess off of assumptions and matematics

your just making your off of looks

there is a big difference

We could be wrong yes but at least we are reasonably sure about our math

Machines that particular size and bulk and age would have been around 400 tons but he said it was only 5.

Besides your math is based solely on what you think the size of the ring was. It could have been meters shorter than what was used. It is also based on what you think the material was which also can take off large amounts of tons if you are wrong. 😐