Pre-retcon Molecule Man vs Spectre and Michael or Lucifer

Originally posted by Sirius77
Yeah, but the point is that lu took it and didn't flinch. He just stood there... like nothing happened. MM was bed stricken. Not that it isn't an impressive feat though.

Also, how can you say that the blast was millions of times more powerful?

Lucifer only took a creation blast from Michael and that was because he was prepared for it.
MM saved everyone and everything from a blast from the Beyonder. That's equal to saving everything from a blast from the GEB.

Why millions of times more powerful? Because on panel Beyonder was stated to be millions of times more powerful than the entire multiverse and this came from the writers.

Originally posted by Air Legend
Lucifer only took a creation blast from Michael and that was because he was prepared for it.
MM saved everyone and everything from a blast from the Beyonder. That's equal to saving everything from a blast from the GEB.

🤨 when have Pre Recton MM been stated to equal the supreme being???

Originally posted by Utrigita
🤨 when have Pre Recton MM been stated to equal the supreme being???

Originally posted by Mr Master
Many knew Beyonder was the Ultimate Being.
Sunspot on the Beyonder

Darkchild on the Beyonder

Hercules on the Beyonder

Magneto on the Beyonder

Dr Doom on the Beyonder

Xavier on the Beyonder

Dr Strange on the Beyonder

I don't care for that logic, personally.

For instance,
Solar was referred to as THE "God" numerous times throughout his series -- But does that literally make him the Almighty? ermmno

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't care for that logic, personally.

For instance,
Solar was referred to as THE "God" numerous times throughout his series -- But does that literally make him the Almighty? ermmno

The thing is the Beyonder has the feats to back it up as well.

Originally posted by Air Legend
The thing is the Beyonder has the feats to back it up as well.

But does that make him Valiant's actual "God"? Nah -- Just an uberly powerful character.

Much like the case with Beyonder.

I know that you know a lot of the Beyonder Galan, probably more than me--correction, you do know more than me about the Beyonder.
w
Anyways, from what I've understand I would place Pre-retcon Beyonder along with the Heart, the avatar of Jack Kirby (and thr Pre-retcon Red Brother)

I would do that because Beyonder was supose to represent the power the writers had over the comics.
Not to mention his power fluxuated wildely, but it was often explained with the he imposed limitations on himself.

For instance, Beyonder had millions of times more power than all the beings in Marvel combinded.
Then his realm was said to be a ocean, if the Multiverse was a drop.
- I think they made so that Beyonder limited himself for the purpose of describing his power under limitations, and the stories wouldn't be as interesting if he was potrayed as infinite in every aspect, therefore he imposed limitations on himself. For instance we cannot grasp the concept of infinity. We have a very hard time to picture the mass of the water in comparison to a drop, but it's a lot easier than grasping infinity.
They even said that the universe Beyonder created was a infinity times bigger than the multiverse of Marvel.

Here are some interesting scans.

Beyonder himself, referes to himself as omnipotent, and to him a microbe and the most powerful cosmics are equally as 'weak'

And here Molecule man (who was about to be as powerful as the Beyonder) confesses that as Captain America couldn't comperhend the power of him, he couldn't comperhend the power of the Beyonder.

So Beyonder is to Molecule man, as Molecule man is to Captain America

This is gold :

Originally posted by Air Legend
Complete molecular (as in all particles) control is greater than power of creation

Originally posted by Air Legend
MM saved everyone and everything from a blast from the Beyonder. That's equal to saving everything from a blast from the GEB.

That brings the word stupidity a whole new meaning.

😆

Originally posted by Galan007
So does Solar.

But does that make him Valiant's actual "God"? Nah -- Just an uberly powerful character.

Much like the case with Beyonder.

The Beyonder was the most powerful character in Marvel, therefore he was the supreme being of Marvel at the time. He was given the power to do anything by the writers. No comic character can actually be "God" but they can be considered as God of their respective company, seeing how comic books are just works of fiction.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
This is gold :

Molcule man's name has nothing to do with his power though.

That brings the word stupidity a whole new meaning.

And we know damn well that Molecule man could've destroy that with a mere thought.

Originally posted by Astner
I have to concur with the first one, but then again, if you have complete controll of anything, no matter what, you also have control over it on quantum and string level.

Molcule man's name has nothing to do with his power though.

Haha, yeah especially since GEB was a Vertigo character.
And Michael mentioned that if he died the power of God would be released upon "all reality".
But when Lucifer killed him only the power of a Multiverse was realsed.

And we know damn well that Molecule man could've destroy that with a mere thought.

actually the power of a multiverse was not released. Creation power was released. Lucifer only thought there was a multiverse and was trying to mirror God's creation. He didn't find out later on that he could have used the same blast to make a Sea of overlapping multiverses.

Originally posted by Air Legend Well no comic character can actually be "God" and that includes the avatars of the writers.

Originally posted by Astner
[QUOTE=9779688]Originally posted by Air Legend Well no comic character can actually be "God" and that includes the avatars of the writers.[quote]
Of course they can, man wrote the bible, man write comic books.
You can even illustrate more powerful beings than the biblical, or monoteistic God by using scientifical and mathematical terms like levels of infinity.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
actually the power of a multiverse was not released. Creation power was released. Lucifer only thought there was a multiverse and was trying to mirror God's creation. He didn't find out later on that he could have used the same blast to make a Sea of overlapping multiverses.

Another funny thing is that whenever people talk about Michael/Lucifer they bring the argument that Michael's power only created a Multiverse but they fail to realize that Lucifer choose to create a Multiverse with that power, when in fact he could have created a Megaverse of Omniverse since the power Michael posesses is infinite.

Originally posted by Astner
If the term "overlapping multiverses" was used I withdraw my statement.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Tread lightly. This is a can of worms not worth opening.

I take that back as well.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Another funny thing is that whenever people talk about Michael/Lucifer they bring the argument that Michael's power only created a Multiverse but they fail to realize that Lucifer choose to create a Multiverse with that power, when in fact he could have created a Megaverse of Omniverse since the power Michael posesses is infinite.

Originally posted by Air Legend
First of all don't give me the what the **** sign when you can't even make a grammatically correct English statement.
Second of all, read the respect thread since it's obvious you didn't read the comic.

Galactus also acknowledged the Beyonder could do anything aka Beyonder was Almighty. The entire cosmic hierarchy acknowledged it as well.
Third of all, use logic for once. Beyonder was more powerful than anyone or anything. What does that make the Beyonder? The supreme being of marvel duh.
Last but not least, the Beyonder had no equal while the GEB did. So technically the Beyonder was supreme while the GEB never was.

I didn't mention Pre retcon Beyonder so showing me statements from him is pointless since it was Pre Retcon MM that you stated to be equal to GEB a being that is equal to the Presence, from the way I understand it.

P.S. Hope the spelling is allright teacher 🙄 because frankly I simply couldn't care less 😬

Originally posted by Astner
Considering how a Multiverse is aleph-infinite in the first place, it takes more than infinte power to create it.
Your arguement is based nothing but your biased perspective.
Lucifer didn't create a Megaverse at panel, and never did he claim that he could.
Heck, YHWH only created a Multiverse as well--not to mention it took him six days.