Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It seemed pretty clear to me.
when max mind controlled superman, he made him see sights that sent him in to a rage. when he fought the jla, he made no attempt to kill any of them. he was rational and in control the entire time. surely lord would have told him to kill certain members (which he easily could have done) if he was in control?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How does that make any sense?If he was rational and in control the entire time, then why the hell did he attack the Justice League in the first place, and why did he come to Lord, and why did he do what he was told?
Lord was clearly tampering with his mind, making him see and do what he wanted.
i don't agree. he attacked the league because he thought THEY were controlled by lord. he had ample opportunity to kill them, yet he made no attempt to do so. under lord's control, he tried to kill both batman and diana.
plus, he didn't go to lord until lord called him. clark was looking for him so he could take him down. it was only when diana arrived that we saw that lord had in fact retaken control.
Superman was being manipulated by Lord when he attacked the Justice League. That was clearly shown. They even show Lord (Smiling and bleeding etc.) while Clark was attacking the Justice League indicating that he was manipulating Superman.
It was Lord's making Clark see what he wanted, and manipulating him that led to him attacking the Justice League etc.
At least you admit that Clark was controlled in Sacrifice now.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Superman was being manipulated by Lord when he attacked the Justice League. That was clearly shown. They even show Lord (Smiling and bleeding etc.) while Clark was attacking the Justice League indicating that he was manipulating Superman.It was Lord's making Clark see what he wanted, and manipulating him that led to him attacking the Justice League etc.
At least you admit that Clark was controlled in Sacrifice now.
i've read the issue, and i still don't agree.
when i have i ever said clark wasn't controlled during sacrifice?
Originally posted by Raoul
i've read the issue, and i still don't agree.
Well, I don't see why you wouldn't but whatever....
Originally posted by Raoul
when i have i ever said clark wasn't controlled during sacrifice?
That's my bad. I thought you're post last page, said it wasn't clear he was controlled during Sacrifice. I forgot about the "when he attacked the Justice League" part.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Well, I don't see why you wouldn't but whatever....
i don't agree because it's not consistent with how he acted the other times. at least not imo...
That's my bad. I thought you're post last page, said it wasn't clear he was controlled during Sacrifice. I forgot about the "when he attacked the Justice League" part.
ah, oki doki...
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Magneto with his Force Field is not going down to a speed blitz.If Juggernaut puts up his Force Field, he isn't being touched by the lasso.
I agree with this.
Also, unless Superman helps Wonder Woman with the lasso, I don't see that stopping the Juggernaut's movement, either.
And @ Draco regarding the soul suck, Cain's soul is owned by Cyttorak, so I don't think that is possible.
I'd like to restate that with BFR, Team One would win more often than not. Without it, I don't see how they take more than 1-2 from Team Two.
Green Lanterns have far better 'shield feats' than Magneto, and considering John was completly focused on stopping Superman, and the fact that Green Lantern shields' potency is based on the willpower/focus of the creator, it's a feat that might look like it means Superman could potentially one-shot Magneto's shield with a punch.
I don't see it that way, since the shields have completly different properties, and Magneto has stopped an attack from Thor/She-Hulk simultaneously while commenting on the fact that brute strength won't be enough to breach his shield. Now this might seem like a boast, but considering the fact that we've seen Magneto modify his shield in order to deflect light/stop intangible beings/create literally perfect shields (as Karnak remarked IIRC) it's not that far fetched that he made it so that mere punches/physicall strength wouldn't break through it. That's far from definitive proof that Superman wouldn't be able to breach it by punching it, though.
Superman still speedblitzes Magneto before he can put up his shield, and then they have fun with Juggernaut.
Originally posted by Enyalus
I agree with this.Also, unless Superman helps Wonder Woman with the lasso, I don't see that stopping the Juggernaut's movement, either.
And @ Draco regarding the soul suck, Cain's soul is owned by Cyttorak, so I don't think that is possible.
I'd like to restate that with BFR, Team One would win more often than not. Without it, I don't see how they take more than 1-2 from Team Two.
👆
Originally posted by Philosophía
Green Lanterns have far better 'shield feats' than Magneto, and considering John was completly focused on stopping Superman, and the fact that Green Lantern shields' potency is based on the willpower/focus of the creator, it's a feat that might look like it means Superman could potentially one-shot Magneto's shield with a punch.
A Green Lantern construct on the Will Power used. Focus isn't the only thing in play. Just because a Green Lantern is doing one task, that does not indicate, he was using all of his Will Power.
That in no way, indicates, that he one shot's Magneto's shield.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I don't see it that way, since the shields have completly different properties, and Magneto has stopped an attack from Thor/She-Hulk simultaneously while commenting on the fact that brute strength won't be enough to breach his shield. Now this might seem like a boast, but considering the fact that we've seen Magneto modify his shield in order to deflect light/stop intangible beings/create literally perfect shields (as Karnak remarked IIRC) it's not that far fetched that he made it so that mere punches/physicall strength wouldn't break through it. That's far from definitive proof that Superman wouldn't be able to breach it by punching it.
Hold on, you said you don't see it that way. Do you mean you don't see Superman breaking through a Green Lantern construct an indication off him one shotting Magneto's shield (Which is just silly.)?
I don't think Superman is breaking through it by punching it. If he does though, it will take a while, and Magneto isn't just going to stand there.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Superman still speedblitzes Magneto before he can put up his shield though, and then they have fun with Juggernaut.
The first thing Magneto does is put up his Shield as it's his main defense, and he does it with a thought. Superman doesn't speed blitz opponents at speeds faster than thought.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Doesn't Magnus think 15 times faster than a baseline human?
Doesn't he react 15 times faster than normal at base(He can augment his speed/reflexes to the point he casually snatches speed sters such as Northstar out of the air, and calls him nothing.)?
He thinks 15 times faster as well?
Well, I forgot about that. Another point for Magneto. 👆
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
A Green Lantern construct on the Will Power used. Focus isn't the only thing in play. Just because a Green Lantern is doing one task, that does not indicate, he was using all of his Will Power.That in no way, indicates, that he one shot's Magneto's shield.
Isn't the underlined part repeating what I just said .. in the same post you're adressing, which is that a Green Lantern's shield potency is based on the wearer's focus and will power ? *scartches head*
Originally posted by Philosophía
Green Lanterns have far better 'shield feats' than Magneto, and considering John was completly focused on stopping Superman, and the fact that Green Lantern shields' potency is based on the willpower/focus of the creator, it's a feat that might look like it means Superman could potentially one-shot Magneto's shield with a punch.
Why wouldn't John pour everything he had into that shield considering his only task was creating a shield to restrain Superman ? Not to mention that Superman's comments make it pretty clear that Superman's punch > John's will.
And I said this feat can be taken as proof of Supes one-shotting Magneto's shield, but in the next paragraph, I stated that I don't agree with this line of thinking and elaborated on why.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't think Superman is breaking through it by punching it. If he does though, it will take a while, and Magneto isn't just going to stand there.The first thing Magneto does is put up his Shield as it's his main defense, and he does it with a thought. Superman doesn't speed blitz opponents at speeds faster than thought.
Even if he doesn't break through with the first punch, how much do you think it would take Superman to punch it again ? And again. And again. I think you're confusing Superman with somebody like Hulk, who can punch a shield only so many times before Magneto stops him from doing so. Superman is quite fast, you know. 🙂
It's your job to prove that Magneto can react fast enough to put up a shield before Superman knocks him out. I'll be waiting, but I guarantee that you can't. I have, and read, every one of Magneto's appearances, so you can't bring something I don't already know.
Originally posted by Philosophía
It's your job to prove that Magneto can react fast enough to put up a shield before Superman knocks him out. I'll be waiting, but I guarantee that you can't. I have, and read, every one of Magneto's appearances, so you can't bring something I don't already know.
Serious question here, so don't hammer me if its wrong, but wouldn't his appearance in Secret Wars and being able to see and track Monica at light speed qualify? He didn't erect a shield then, but he clearly saw her. How far fetched is it to say that he can throw one up?
Originally posted by Enyalus
Serious question here, so don't hammer me if its wrong, but wouldn't his appearance in Secret Wars and being able to see and track Monica at light speed qualify? He didn't erect a shield then, but he clearly saw her. How far fetched is it to say that he can throw one up?
What would projecting his consciousness to magnetically ride along Captain Marvel have to do with his physicall reaction time to a speedblitz by Superman ?
Originally posted by Enyalus
I agree with this.Also, unless Superman helps Wonder Woman with the lasso, I don't see that stopping the Juggernaut's movement, either.
And @ Draco regarding the soul suck, Cain's soul is owned by Cyttorak, so I don't think that is possible.
I'd like to restate that with BFR, Team One would win more often than not. Without it, I don't see how they take more than 1-2 from Team Two.
Cyttorak has no control over Cain's soul, when has it been stated otherwise? If Cyttorak did have control over his soul then he would've never had any problems with Cain.
