Superman and Wonder Woman vs Magneto and Juggernaut no BFR

Started by Enyalus10 pages

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Cyttorak has no control over Cain's soul, when has it been stated otherwise? If Cyttorak did have control over his soul then he would've never had any problems with Cain.

He had to give his soul over to Cyttorak fully. I mean, technically he still has it, but it is Cyttorak's property as part of the deal for giving Cain such power. That's explained either right after or right before he goes into the Crimson Dimension during the Onslaught saga. I think it was Dr. Strange who was explaining it.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Consciousness = thought. Heavily relating to thought processing speed.

*shrug*

I'll repeat it the second time, since it seems it just flew by. What does Magneto having his consciousness leaving his body (you know, the one that's supposed to react to Superman's speed) and following Captain Marvel magnetically alongside have to do with him being physically fast enough to react at Superman blitzing him ?

Anything about Cain in the OS is complete shit. The gist of the deal is that "You become the Juggernaut with awesome powers and stuff, in return you you must be destructive." Like I said if his soul did belong to him then he would've had no problem making Cain do his destructive bidding.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Isn't the underlined part repeating what I just said .. in the same post you're adressing, which is that a Green Lantern's shield potency is based on the wearer's focus and will power ? *scartches head*

What I meant is just because a Green Lantern is doing one task, that does not mean, he is using all of his Willpower. I've seen Green Lantern's do one task at a time, and have had their constructs broken/destroyed, yet withstood greater damage in comparison when doing multiple tasks.

That is what I meant.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Why wouldn't John pour everything he had into that shield considering his only task was creating a shield to restrain Superman ? Not to mention that Superman's comments make it pretty clear that Superman's punch > John's will.

Like I said, just because a Green Lantern is doing one task, and focusing on one task, it does not mean they are using all their will power.

It's not Superman's Punch > John's Willpower, it's Superman's Punch > The amount of Willpower John was putting into that specific construct.

Originally posted by Philosophía
And I said this feat can be taken as proof of Supes one-shotting Magneto's shield,

That's is faulty logic and ridiculous but I'm glad you don't agree with it.

Originally posted by Philosophía
but in the next paragraph, I stated that I don't agree with this line of thinking and elaborated on why.

👆

Originally posted by Philosophía
Even if he doesn't break through with the first punch, how much do you think it would take Superman to punch it again ? And again. And again. I think you're confusing Superman with somebody like Hulk, who can punch a shield only so many times before Magneto stops him from doing so. Superman is quite fast, you know. 🙂

I know Superman is quite fast, and with his speed he can land more than a few blows, but one has to consider that Magneto, with his reflexes, will be able to retaliate soon enough. Not only is he at base 15 times faster than normal in terms of reaction and thought process, but he can augment his reflexes to the point where beings like Northstar are no problem. Not comparing Northstar, to Superman, but Magneto is capable of handling speed.

Originally posted by Philosophía
It's your job to prove that Magneto can react fast enough to put up a shield before Superman knocks him out. I'll be waiting, but I guarantee that you can't. I have, and read, every one of Magneto's appearances, so you can't bring something I don't already know.

Magneto putting up his Force Field is much more likely than Superman speed blitzing Also, Superman only has so much knowledge of Magneto. He isn't going to go 15 times faster than thought of the base of the bat, and that's how fast he would have to go, for him to put down Magnus, before he wills his Force Field up.

I'm sorry but if I was a GL no matter which one I was but I would put all of my willpower into containing Superman. Thats just common sense and any GL who wouldn't do that does not deserve a ring.

Northstar is in no way as fast as Superman. Proof that he can handle someone much slower than him is not proof that he can handle Superman's speed.

^👆

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What I meant is just because a Green Lantern is doing one task, that does not mean, he is using all of his Willpower. I've seen Green Lantern's do one task at a time, and have had their constructs broken/destroyed, yet withstood greater damage in comparison when doing multiple tasks.

That is what I meant.

Like I said, just because a Green Lantern is doing one task, and focusing on one task, it does not mean they are using all their will power.

It's not Superman's Punch > John's Willpower, it's Superman's Punch > The amount of Willpower John was putting into that specific construct.

Why wouldn't John use all of his willpower trying to contain Superman, who for all intents and purposes could have been under mind control and about to kill them all like he almost did against Batman ? This, coupled with the fact that John's only task was of containing Superman, the fact that the narration made it clear that it's Superman's punch vs John's willpower (and there's absolutley no reason to think "hey, maybe he was trying to restrain Superman, possibly the most powerfull superhero, with just a portion of his willpower"😉 and not to make it seem like an insult, but common sense and logic, makes me think that Superman is just powerfull enough to bust through a top Green Lantern like John Stewart's shield.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I know Superman is quite fast, and with his speed he can land more than a few blows, but one has to consider that Magneto, with his reflexes, will be able to retaliate soon enough. Not only is he at base 15 times faster than normal in terms of reaction and thought process, but he can augment his reflexes to the point where beings like Northstar are no problem. Not comparing Northstar, to Superman, but Magneto is capable of handling speed.

Magneto putting up his Force Field is much more likely than Superman speed blitzing Also, Superman only has so much knowledge of Magneto. He isn't going to go 15 times faster than thought of the base of the bat, and that's how fast he would have to go, for him to put down Magnus, before he wills his Force Field up.

The problem is, that you are comparing Superman to Northstar, since he, along with him being augmented in reflex/reaction time compared to a normal human, are your primary arguments, eventough you say you aren't doing so. Magneto has never encountered, much less handled somebody with Superman's level of speed, and what other statements/feats he has against speedsters don't prove anything when he's up against somebody of Superman's calibre.

And like I said, even if somehow Magneto manages to put up his shield before Superman knocks him out, it is very doubtfull that the shield would hold until he'd be able to do something to Superman, considering Superman's ability to throw quite a few punches before Magneto has a chance to do anything.

The 'Full capacity' rule is in effect, aswell as the 'basic knowledge' one, so Superman will go full speed from the beginning. He won't kill, as CIS still applies, but he will still knock Magneto out. Point is, no matter how you look at it, shield or no shield, Superman wins.

Originally posted by Philosophía
^👆

Why wouldn't John use all of his willpower trying to contain Superman, who for all intents and purposes could have been under mind control and about to kill them all like he almost did against Batman ? This, coupled with the fact that John's only task was of containing Superman, the fact that the narration made it clear that it's Superman's punch vs John's willpower (and there's absolutley no reason to think "hey, maybe he was trying to restrain Superman, possibly the most powerfull superhero, with just a portion of his willpower"😉 and not to make it seem like an insult, but common sense and logic, makes me think that Superman is just powerfull enough to bust through a top Green Lantern like John Stewart's shield.

The problem is, that you are comparing Superman to Northstar, since he, along with him being augmented in reflex/reaction time compared to a normal human, are your primary arguments, eventough you say you aren't doing so. Magneto has never encountered, much less handled somebody with Superman's level of speed, and what other statements/feats he has against speedsters don't prove anything when he's up against somebody of Superman's calibre.

And like I said, even if somehow Magneto manages to put up his shield before Superman knocks him out, it is very doubtfull that the shield would hold until he'd be able to do something to Superman, considering Superman's ability to throw quite a few punches before Magneto has a chance to do anything.

The 'Full capacity' rule is in effect, aswell as the 'basic knowledge' one, so Superman will go full speed from the beginning. He won't kill, as CIS still applies, but he will still knock Magneto out. Point is, no matter how you look at it, shield or no shield, Superman wins.

Speed wise, northstar>>superman UNTIL you show some on panel proof of being able to combat at light speed.

You realize this one day without posting baseless claims.

Originally posted by carver9
Speed wise, northstar>>superman UNTIL you show some on panel proof of being able to combat at light speed.

You realize this one day without posting baseless claims.

😂

oh you and your silliness...

Magneto and Juggernaut win this 10/10. Magneto could repeat EVERYTHING that dr. poloris has done to supes and diana on a much higher scale.

Juggernaut is just as strong if not stronger than anyone on the battle field with a high level of durability that neither can affect. Juggernaut could outfight anyone on team 1 and still have enough stamina to take on the other.

If you go by on panel showings and weakness and the overrall power of both sides, Team 2 wins this in a stomp. Magneto is built to fight diana, she s not durable enough to take a nuke busting her in the face and a sharpnel hitting her in the back (sneak attack) and all that iron that she has on her body is especially made for magneto to use against her.

Originally posted by Raoul
😂

oh you and your silliness...

Where did you come from? I honestly think that you're following me.

By the way, my statement is nothing but the truth.

Originally posted by carver9
Magneto and Juggernaut win this 10/10. Magneto could repeat EVERYTHING that dr. poloris has done to supes and diana on a much higher scale.

Juggernaut is just as strong if not stronger than anyone on the battle field with a high level of durability that neither can affect. Juggernaut could outfight anyone on team 1 and still have enough stamina to take on the other.

If you go by on panel showings and weakness and the overrall power of both sides, Team 2 wins this in a stomp. Magneto is built to fight diana, she s not durable enough to take a nuke busting her in the face and a sharpnel hitting her in the back (sneak attack) and all that iron that she has on her body is especially made for magneto to use against her.

i was going to reply again, but:

Originally posted by Raoul
😂

oh you and your silliness...

seemed fitting.

Originally posted by carver9
Where did you come from? I honestly think that you're following me.

By the way, my statement is nothing but the truth.

the truth as you see it.

Originally posted by Raoul
i was going to reply again, but:

seemed fitting.

the truth as you see it.

How about you tell me what was wrong with my post. I'm about as knowledged if not MORE knowledge than you about every character in this battle.

Originally posted by carver9
How about you tell me what was wrong with my post. I'm about as knowledged if not MORE knowledge than you about every character in this battle.

umm... all of it?

northstar > superman? nope.

magneto > polaris? debatable.

also, magneto has nukes handy now?

even then, a nuke won't hurt do nearly the kind of damage you say it would.

Originally posted by Raoul
umm... all of it?

northstar > superman? nope.

magneto > polaris? debatable.

also, magneto has nukes handy now?

even then, a nuke won't hurt do nearly the kind of damage you say it would.

On panel proof STATES that northstar is faster than supes. Supes even admitted that he couldnt outrun darkseids omega force (not effect which is much slower) and flash outran it going light speed.

Magneto>Poloris 😆 True statement. Poloris had to get an amp to take control of earths magnetic spectrum whereas magneto has been doing that since the beginning.

He doesnt have nukes handy but he has carried on a fight with the xmen while the entire time he was controlling nukes from 100's of miles away.

I never said that the nuke would kill either of them but supermans durability>dianas and he almost dehydrated when he got hit by a nuke.

Originally posted by carver9
On panel proof STATES that northstar is faster than supes. Supes even admitted that he couldnt outrun darkseids omega force (not effect which is much slower) and flash outran it going light speed.

Magneto>Poloris 😆 True statement. Poloris had to get an amp to take control of earths magnetic spectrum whereas magneto has been doing that since the beginning.

He doesnt have nukes handy but he has carried on a fight with the xmen while the entire time he was controlling nukes from 100's of miles away.

I never said that the nuke would kill either of them but supermans durability>dianas and he almost dehydrated when he got hit by a nuke.

facepalm

you really believe that nonsense, don't you?

dur

Originally posted by Raoul
facepalm

you really believe that nonsense, don't you?

dur

LOL, can you please tell me what was wrong with my post.

Originally posted by carver9
LOL, can you please tell me what was wrong with my post.

i already did. you talk about on panel proof, yet don't provide any... 😬

Originally posted by Raoul
i already did. you talk about on panel proof, yet don't provide any... 😬

What did you want me to provide, you read superman as much as I do, you should know about all the things that I have provided.

Originally posted by carver9
What did you want me to provide, you read superman as much as I do, you should know about all the things that I have provided.

i seriously doubt you read that much superman, to be fair... 😛

Northstar does fight at faster speeds than Superman does...

I'm not sure why that matters, but whatever.