Exar Kun Vs Anakin with a twist

Originally posted by Janus Marius
It's not in the rules, and certainly not a reasonable request anyways. We never have an instance where an individual can be judged purely on swordplay or purely on Force powers used; they're always used together. Saber fighting and Force capabilities do count as criteria for a win, but they shouldn't be held separately as if the combatants had to go with one or the other. They link up together.

Firstly, Kun is a "master swordsman" according to narration, which means he's at least top tier. Second, Anakin isn't a better duellist than Dooku; he's simply physically stronger and got one hell of a clever move on him. Dooku's noted as being the elder, wiser of the two and one more possessing Dark Side mastery and Light side mastery as well as being the only living master of a duelling lightsaber form. Saying that Anakin is better than Dooku (Or presuming that all of Anakin's opponents must be better than Dooku) is as accurate as saying TPM Obi-Wan > Darth Maul. In any other situation or scenario, Maul would have beat the crap out of Obi-Wan, and same with Dooku versus Anakin. This is pretty apparent to some; blasphemy to others.

Kun is noted as destroying Master Vodo in lightsaber combat twice, and Ulic, a saber veteran, is unable to take any advantage over him. That speaks for his saber mastery. In Force mastery he kills Odan-Urr with a wave of his hand and makes an entire building his thralls. Tosses around Jedi knights like garbage and makes the chancellor his sock puppet. He utilizes a Sith amulet which can multiply his power tenfold and more, and can use it to demolish flesh and stone as easy as he can move his hand. He even resists an attack made especially to strip Sith of their Force abilities.

Why would he need distance? Kun's physically strong; strong enough to ward off Anakin's Djem So/Shien strikes. He's a master swordsman who can hold his own with all manner of opponents. And his Force powers work at any distance.

Again, you're amusing. So Anakin has virtually unlimited energy reserves and he can just slip into "teh zone" like its an overcoat and outfight a master swordsman with no effort, huh?

Sure, let me try this:

Kun is always in the zone, and he uses the Force to make Anakin bounce like a ball before using his amulet to blow off his remaining organic limbs.

Does this make me a nonlogical fanboy like you now? [/B]

1.After reading your vomit, I can logically assume that:
You don't really read anything outside of your own text, or anything that involves PT characters.
2. You make illogical arguments for Kun such as (omg hes gonna go blasting his amulet), when it's contradictory to Kun's style
3. You calling other people fanboys when it's clear that you throw out all logic when the PT era is involved (in case you didn't get the memo, it would make you a fanboy).
4. Your assumptions that I'm a fanboy are unfounded and plain incorrect, especially since I've never liked Anakin, nor have ever shown any bias towards him. I, unlike you, can debate star wars objectively.
However, I'm looking forward to your psuedointellectual psychobabble, dr laura.

Originally posted by Faunus
[B]As Janus stated, he fought Ulic to sate his ego. Otherwise he would've gone at "the pretender" with the same Sith techniques he used on the wyrm and Aleema.

EDIT: And dude; Ood turned into a tree after getting slapped away, IIRC. Not much of a conflict there.

Which is more a mark in Kun's favor than one against Odan.

He made the enemy desperate. Considering he'd only just learned the technique from another Jedi, the fact that he accomplished even that is notable.

a) That's Luke, not Yoda or Mace.

b) Assuming Luke recovered everything left over, he still lacks what Exar and the Massassi looted, and what was obliterated by the supernova. And I'm pretty sure the Jedi lost the majority of what was on Ossus, hidden or not.

Yeah. And in Star Wars, knowledge = power, as Obi-Wan proved.

As demonstrated... where, now?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
he was there to destroy a potential threat to him, plain and simple. Where's the ego stroking there? As noted, Kun was equally unable to best Ulic as Ulic was unable to best Kun

And beforehand, Kun seems pretty willing to engage him in a duel...where's the ego sating involved there? Especially when Kun's on a bit of a tight schedule.

Perhaps I was unclear: Odan proved to be utterly worthless in a fight with the Ancient Sith and considering he just stands there when a guy screams at him to pick up his lightsaber until Ooroo sacrifices himself.

And I'm not saying I don't believe you, but do you have the scans?

He made them willing to fight on and got the Daragons killed. This isn't screaming to me any of Odan's competence

Considering he managed to have any effect with it, and while flying a starfighter no less, there's nothing incompetent about him.

One of whom led great advances to the recovery of lost knowledge, including the holocrons of Ood Bnar and Vodo Baas, had access to the Great Holocron, which held the knowledge of the Jedi Order through its 25,000 year history, etc etc.

Palpatine's the one who recovered the former from Yavin 4 and Luke takes possession of it later. the latter would indeed be gone for good.
What was lost there, though, was recovered over the years. The Jedi devoted nearly a thousand years to it, from 3000 ABY to 2000 ABY.

And without great Force Power, knowing a lot still doesn't help you much. There isn't a single appearance of ODan when he shows himself to have a shred of the abilities Mace, Luke, Yoda or Dooku do. Impressive? Yes. One of the best old time Jedi? Yes. His death being enough to establish superiority over people like Mace and Yoda? No.

When Anakin fights rampaging Gen'Dai who nearly kill him, Dark Jedi who make him fight for his life, Jensaari, that kind of thing.

Originally posted by Faunus
If Exar had wanted to kill Ulic quickly and with minimal risk, he would have attempted to do so with his new Dark side powers. You'll recall that he floored Aleema - who while being relatively weak, knew far more Sith techniques than Ulic - in an instant to get her out of the way.

None of which have any relevance. He never successfully repels an offensive Force attack, which is the entire point.

DS:

It most certainly is reasonable considering most of the fights on this forum are separated into these 3 categories.

So because every third thread has someone going:

A versus B

1. Saber only
2. Force only
3. Both

... Suddenly means its a rational approach to all versus debates? So preserving the status quo and appealing to majority constitute a good reason?

Or are you missing my point- that all versus matches must presume that force and saber use is allowed, or else we have no basis to argue the characters on? Nowhere in the in-universe sources are Force users divorced from Force powers or saber powers.

How do you quantify a master swordsman and compare that to an entirely different era? You have how many master swordsmen in the PT era? Oh I see.

You quantify "master swordsman" by context, not by comparing it to another era by numbers alone. For sure, PT era has more apparent "master swordsman", if you take third party perspectives and sheer number of sources into consideration. By that kind of logic, there's less then a dozen Jedi shown during the Hyperspace Wars and none of them fought as many battles as Clone Wars era Jedi. zOMG! They could never match such prestige!

The context is that Exar Kun is a match for Ulic Qel-Droma for the first minute or so of their fight. He's more than a match for his own master anda respected Jedi Master Vodo, as verified twice. He's also slaughtered a few no-names with his blade, though that's not exactly a duelling trait worth noting. Bottom line is that Exar Kun is best of the best in his own era, and is indeed a "master swordsman" for whatever that's worth, and was undefeated in saber combat save for a single defeat in a sparring lesson before he became a dark lord.

And mind you, right after that he defeated Vodo and remained undefeated since. A far cry from Anakin who was in "teh zone" and couldn't hack up Obi-Wan. Anakin fights his former mentor for over ten and a half minutes, while Exar Kun batters his for fun and then puts an end to him when he's finally lost patience.

Exar Kun >>>>>> Anakin Skywalker

Now you're trying to rationalize the Dooku and Anakin fight. The better fighter won. How did he get a clever move on him? Because he was BETTER at that point, when he gave in to the dark side.

You're missing something entirely; the winner is not always the better fighter. Obi-Wan as of TPM was far inferior to Maul. Obi-Wan was technically inferior to Anakin in RotS. Yoda was far from inferior to Sidious yet he lost. Anakin's never shown to be the "only living master" of a lightsaber form made specifically for lightsaber dueling. Anakin's never shown Force prowess above or even on par with Dooku. And if you watch the saber match, it's pretty much even until Anakin leans in and does his wondermove. Nothing else he did during that match made him a superior duellist. He simply did a smart move and won. Lucky him. If Dooku had choked his ass or fried him and hadn't been so busy incapacitating Obi-Wan, he'd be dead.

Dooku's reserves were dropping while Anakin's were virtually unlimited.

Again with the "ANakin has teh unlimitud rezeervs!" shit. Substantiate this with a canon source or STFU.

How does beating Master Vodo make Kun super powerful?

Context, DS. Chances are, when you beat a respected Jedi Master who can take on saber users using only his stick (and usually win), someone who taught you everything you know, and considering that you beat the shit out of him twice, the second time with hardly any effort... Well. I suppose that makes someone at least respectable in duelling.

Unless you're claiming that Vodo is some kind of idiot and weakling who is unable to hold his own in combat. He obviously had the faith in his own abilities to use his walking stick against a Dark Lord of the Sith who just murdered Odan-urr with his own powers.

There's also that part in narration when Vodo first duels Exar Kun about his "skill borne of long experience". I suppose he got all that knowledge sitting around eating bon-bons.

Strong enough? How can you possibly guage that? And Anakin isn't physically strong? I love how strength only applies to Kun in this case. Yea IM definitely the fanboy.

Exar Kun is proven incredibly strong in the comics, DS. You should read them sometime. For one, he's massively built and easily as tall if not taller than anyone else in the series. He picks up a grown sentient by his skull at one point with one hand and holds him there effortlessly. He smashes through other Jedi's defenses using this strength as well, such as Vodo and Crado.

Tell me, which force powers of his are going to work at a close distance if they are engaged in a lightsaber duel?

Since when do any of them have a distance limitation, DS? Dooku could Force choke Obi-Wan at point blank range while back-kicking Anakin into a wall with no effort.

Exar Kun has shown to be quite a bit more powerful in the Force than Dooku, and certainly more aggressive and powerful in general.

Anakin has unlimited stamina in the rules while Kun does not.

Anakin keeps regenerating his stamina; not that he has unlimited stamina. There is a difference. Anakin with regenerated stamina cannot be stronger than he was originally; he is simply consistant with that stamina level. However, Kun may lose stamina and tire, but that's inevitable. No one is agruing that Kun is going to win; simply that he isn't going to get slaughtered by Anakin's "superiority".

Assuming they're equals in saber combat, Kun will be worn out Dooku style, while Anakin won't. Notice how i'm STRICTLY speaking about a lightsaber duel.

Assuming they are equals. I really don't see Exar Kun having trouble with Obi-Wan Kenobi though.

And the fight is not limited to just lightsaber duelling. I wonder how much good "regenerating stamina" is going to work when Kun just unleashes blast after blast his way? Or buries him under the torn debris of the ceiling?

Sure, that would work if:
1. Kun automatically starts off throwing around his amulet blasts. Considering he never used it against other jedi, there's no reason to assume he'll just throw it out. Unless of course, you're Janus, where nothing is illogical
2. Kun doesn't engage Anakin in a lightsaber duel. From what we have seen, that is his preferred method of fighting, so he can taunt his opponent. This is more logical than Kun going in guns blazing.

Apparently sarcasm is beyond you.

1.After reading your vomit, I can logically assume that:
You don't really read anything outside of your own text, or anything that involves PT characters.

I'd be surprised if you could logically assume anything. I notice that you didn't put "logically conclude" or any such phrase, merely "assume". And in any case, you're wrong. I do read what everyone else has to say, and I've read all of the PT-era books. I doubt you have. In fact, there's nothing you've ever shown anything but passing knowledge in; not the games, nor the comics, novels, etc. A lot of the information you have comes second-hand, and most of it is wrong or blown up by your own biased interpretations. You can't even name sources for anything you've stated, can you?

2. You make illogical arguments for Kun such as (omg hes gonna go blasting his amulet), when it's contradictory to Kun's style

Illogical? Sure, Kun may indulge in saber combat for the first round or two, but as soon as he notes that Anakin is undying, he'll start frying the little bastard left and right. Unless you want to claim that Exar Kun is "too arrogant" to use his amulet? That'd be a laugh. Talk about speculating out of your ass.

3. You calling other people fanboys when it's clear that you throw out all logic when the PT era is involved (in case you didn't get the memo, it would make you a fanboy).

Irrelevant misdirection.

4. Your assumptions that I'm a fanboy are unfounded and plain incorrect, especially since I've never liked Anakin, nor have ever shown any bias towards him. I, unlike you, can debate star wars objectively.

Odd, you're showing bias towards him right now. Or could it be that you're just opposed to anything I support? In any case, you can't debate objectively; you don't even know the meaning of the word. You have no argument, you have no sources for your side, and you thrive on picking apart what I say because you're absolutely jealous of everyone else's ability ot do what you can't- debate. Now, go piss off, DS.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
DS:

So because every third thread has someone going:

A versus B

1. Saber only
2. Force only
3. Both

... Suddenly means its a rational approach to all versus debates? So preserving the status quo and appealing to majority constitute a good reason?

Or are you missing my point- that all versus matches must presume that force and saber use is allowed, or else we have no basis to argue the characters on? Nowhere in the in-universe sources are Force users divorced from Force powers or saber powers.

You quantify "master swordsman" by context, not by comparing it to another era by numbers alone. For sure, PT era has more apparent "master swordsman", if you take third party perspectives and sheer number of sources into consideration. By that kind of logic, there's less then a dozen Jedi shown during the Hyperspace Wars and none of them fought as many battles as Clone Wars era Jedi. zOMG! They could never match such prestige!

The context is that Exar Kun is a match for Ulic Qel-Droma for the first minute or so of their fight. He's more than a match for his own master anda respected Jedi Master Vodo, as verified twice. He's also slaughtered a few no-names with his blade, though that's not exactly a duelling trait worth noting. Bottom line is that Exar Kun is best of the best in his own era, and is indeed a "master swordsman" for whatever that's worth, and was undefeated in saber combat save for a single defeat in a sparring lesson before he became a dark lord.

And mind you, right after that he defeated Vodo and remained undefeated since. A far cry from Anakin who was in "teh zone" and couldn't hack up Obi-Wan. Anakin fights his former mentor for over ten and a half minutes, while Exar Kun batters his for fun and then puts an end to him when he's finally lost patience.

Exar Kun >>>>>> Anakin Skywalker

You're missing something entirely; the winner is not always the better fighter. Obi-Wan as of TPM was far inferior to Maul. Obi-Wan was technically inferior to Anakin in RotS. Yoda was far from inferior to Sidious yet he lost. Anakin's never shown to be the "only living master" of a lightsaber form made specifically for lightsaber dueling. Anakin's never shown Force prowess above or even on par with Dooku. And if you watch the saber match, it's pretty much even until Anakin leans in and does his wondermove. Nothing else he did during that match made him a superior duellist. He simply did a smart move and won. Lucky him. If Dooku had choked his ass or fried him and hadn't been so busy incapacitating Obi-Wan, he'd be dead.

Again with the "ANakin has teh unlimitud rezeervs!" shit. Substantiate this with a canon source or STFU.

Context, DS. Chances are, when you beat a respected Jedi Master who can take on saber users using only his stick (and usually win), someone who taught you everything you know, and considering that you beat the shit out of him twice, the second time with hardly any effort... Well. I suppose that makes someone at least respectable in duelling.

Unless you're claiming that Vodo is some kind of idiot and weakling who is unable to hold his own in combat. He obviously had the faith in his own abilities to use his walking stick against a Dark Lord of the Sith who just murdered Odan-urr with his own powers.

There's also that part in narration when Vodo first duels Exar Kun about his "skill borne of long experience". I suppose he got all that knowledge sitting around eating bon-bons.

Exar Kun is proven incredibly strong in the comics, DS. You should read them sometime. For one, he's massively built and easily as tall if not taller than anyone else in the series. He picks up a grown sentient by his skull at one point with one hand and holds him there effortlessly. He smashes through other Jedi's defenses using this strength as well, such as Vodo and Crado.

Since when do any of them have a distance limitation, DS? Dooku could Force choke Obi-Wan at point blank range while back-kicking Anakin into a wall with no effort.

Exar Kun has shown to be quite a bit more powerful in the Force than Dooku, and certainly more aggressive and powerful in general.

Anakin keeps regenerating his stamina; not that he has unlimited stamina. There is a difference. Anakin with regenerated stamina cannot be stronger than he was originally; he is simply consistant with that stamina level. However, Kun may lose stamina and tire, but that's inevitable. No one is agruing that Kun is going to win; simply that he isn't going to get slaughtered by Anakin's "superiority".

continued..

Assuming they are equals. I really don't see Exar Kun having trouble with Obi-Wan Kenobi though.

And the fight is not limited to just lightsaber duelling. I wonder how much good "regenerating stamina" is going to work when Kun just unleashes blast after blast his way? Or buries him under the torn debris of the ceiling?

Apparently sarcasm is beyond you.

I'd be surprised if you could logically assume anything. I notice that you didn't put "logically conclude" or any such phrase, merely "assume". And in any case, you're wrong. I do read what everyone else has to say, and I've read all of the PT-era books. I doubt you have. In fact, there's nothing you've ever shown anything but passing knowledge in; not the games, nor the comics, novels, etc. A lot of the information you have comes second-hand, and most of it is wrong or blown up by your own biased interpretations. You can't even name sources for anything you've stated, can you?

Illogical? Sure, Kun may indulge in saber combat for the first round or two, but as soon as he notes that Anakin is undying, he'll start frying the little bastard left and right. Unless you want to claim that Exar Kun is "too arrogant" to use his amulet? That'd be a laugh. Talk about speculating out of your ass.

Odd, you're showing bias towards him right now. Or could it be that you're just opposed to anything I support? In any case, you can't debate objectively; you don't even know the meaning of the word. You have no argument, you have no sources for your side, and you thrive on picking apart what I say because you're absolutely jealous of everyone else's ability ot do what you can't- debate. Now, go piss off, DS. [/B]

I think you need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills. When I say "Anakin could take Exar Kun in lightsaber combat", you respond with "Exar Kun would win in an all out fight/fight with the force". When I say "if it gets to a lightsaber fight, it'll be close", you respond with the retarded statement of "well Kun is just going to blast his amulet". You might be a good general debater, but when it comes to debating star wars objectively, you're dumber than a woodpecker in a concrete forest. Now please Janus, don't tell me to go piss off. Because you can't debate logically, you project your pathetic insecurities on me. Denial doesn't work, not even for a forum nerd like you. Your pathetic personal attacks make me laugh though. "But youre doing it too omg!!". You're breaking my heart Janus, learn to debate objectively or shut the hell up.

No, but as you notice Janus, I am personally separating the fight into two aspects; light saber combat and force powers, and arguing strictly for light saber combat. You can sit there and tell me "Well the two could go together and shouldn't be split up", but this is the argument I'm making, that Anakin could take Kun in a saber duel, not a force duel.

You seem to miss the point- no lightsaber duel is going to be complete without access to the Force. And while I note that you haven't exactly proved Anakin the better of the two duellists (Since they can both effectively be argued to be "master swordsmen"😉 Exar Kun is clearly head and shoulders above Anakin in Force mastery and Force relics. So the win goes to the better of the two overall more often than not.

Even you can appreciate this simple logic, I hope.

What force powers go into saber combat Janus? The obvious quick reflexes and precog? No seriously, what force powers? You could give the example that Dooku used force powers during his fight with Obiwan and Anakin and that he clearly displayed force mastery, whereas I can say in teh z0ne Anakin totally wtfpwned him in saber combat and was considered better than him once he touched the dark side.

You can be so silly sometimes, DS. So suddenly lightsaber combat has absolutely nothing to do with use of Force? You mean all those Jedi train for years to "use the Force" and then just only rely on precog (if they have it) and reflexes? That's hilarious. You should do stand-up. Only, as the comedian's prop.

I mean, have you seen this before?

So I guess old Dooku logged out of "Saber fight" mode and went into "zOMG Furce God!!! mod" mode and min/maxed his wisdom and charisma until he could WTFpwn two of the best Jedi the Order had to offer, huh?

Cuz there's no way that he did that while lightsaber fighting. He had to have done that during the intermission, because according to DS lightsaber fighting cannot possibly happen unless all Force abilities such as precognition and reflex are suspended.

There are many reasons why you're an amateur, DS. This is one of them.

My point was that I don't understand what your point was by calling Kun a "master swordsman". We know he's a master swordsman, now what?

Which dissolves your assertion that he's some kind of noob who's going to be smoked by Anakin swinging his glowstick. Exar Kun is very clearly a lightsaber prodigy in his timeframe by admission of his own master, by narration, and by feat of arms. If it requires him leaping through time and WTFpwning Anakin Skywalker to convince you, I can't provide that. You have to either accept that Exar Kun was the best (or among the best) duellists of his time and agree that this makes him capable of giving Anakin fits if not outright tooling him or just stop pissing and moaning, because it bores me.

Did I ever argue this point? Of course not, I have the comics and I know this. But Vodo wasn't exactly a powerhouse and neither was Sylvar..

Vodo isn't a "powerhouse"? Could you elaborate on this claim? Or is this another DS "Vague but there I declared it so it's somehow true" assertions?

I cannot believe you are arguing this point when you damn well why Anakin couldn't beat Obiwan.

Of course I know why: Obi-Wan was only marginally worse, yet he outthought Anakin and let Anakin defeat himself. This same Obi-Wan would have absolutely no chance against a Sith Lord who tools Jedi masters as a hobby. If you can't accept this, you're either a closet Anakin fanboy or (as I suspect) simply being contrary to me because you got banned at my forum for being an irrational antagonistic socking troll. Either accept this or move on, because I don't have the time to spoon-feed you the truth whenever you can't happen upon it for yourself.

Judging by what we know, Vodo isn't half the jedi with a saber/stick that Obiwan (who was possibly the greatest soresu master ever) was.

LMFAO!

You want to substantiate how Obi-Wan Kenobi is somehow the "best Soresu practitioner" in the last four thousand years? Do you have the iron balls to follow this assertion up with proof, or should I accept it simply because your small mind accepts it as true? Seriously, DS, if this is all you have to offer, I could find more stimulating debates by moving to the Video Game Versus forum where people think Goku can beat everything up to Jesus Christ on steroids. Really, I hope you are just warming up.

And yet again Anakin pwned Dooku who was easily one of the greatest jedi/sith ever.

Anakin defeated Dooku through use of a clever move and far superior in-close strength. He never was noted as being Dooku's superior in Force mastery or lightsaber mastery; all evidence and anecdotes supports the opposite. So you can stop misconstruing this claim and substantiate it via context for once; Anakin beat Dooku because Dooku didn't think Anakin would strongarm him and hack off his hands in-close at that moment. Anakin never successfully defeated Dooku using just the Force, and he sure as hell didn't riposte-parry-melee Dooku to death. I imagine I could defeat Dooku if I pulled his hands forward and did a wrist lock on him. I bet even you could do that. Does that make you Das Uber Duellist? No, it doesn't. So stop using this circumstantial victory as a definate Anakin >>> Dooku, mkay? Thanks.

Wait, because Kun beat a relative weakling who had nothing to his name except a wooden stick, while Anakin couldn't beat the greatest soresu master ever, Kun>>>>>Anakin? Gee, lets not talk about bias Janus. Kun>Anakin with the force, this much is clear. But if they had a lightsaber battle, I highly doubt Exar Kun would have this.

This is part of the reason why you're a substandard debater, DS; you strawman and draw conclusions from your own unsupported assertions and then claim them as fact.

1. You cite Vodo as a "relative weakling" despite his strength in the Force and the narration's own nod to his considerable experience. You do not substantiate this claim; merely make it and expect it to be gospel.

2. You call Obi-Wan Kenobi the "greatest Soresu master ever" without backing up this claim nor citing how Soresu is somehow more difficult than defeating a Jedi master who can floor people with a walking stick while they possess lightsabers.

So you're bringing up the exception rather than the rule, nice. Yoda and Sidious were equals and they stalemated, which was confirmed by Lucas, so your point is moot.

Proof? Source? Exact words?

Really, Yoda and Sidious technically didn't defeat one another; Yoda was unfortunately redeposited at the bottom of the Senate chamber while Sidious gripped the handrail like he'd fallen and couldn't get up. I don't need GL to do director commentary to see this in the movie. If you want to believe something else, I suggest you go ahead and stop making wild claims.

The bottom line is that Yoda was able to overcome Sidious' best efforts at Force use AND lightsaber use. Sidious can't say the same vice versa. Obviously, Yoda was the superior fighter in the fight. And yet technically he still lost the battle. Whether it was exhaustion, circumstance, bad winds, etc, we could only speculate. The bottom line is that Yoda was beaten by fate more than by Sidious' superiority. And this goes the same for Anakin. Either accept this or stop arguing, because you've proven time and again you can't counter my points; only attack them with haphazard pseudo logic and wild unsupported assertions, neither of which win an argument.

On a related sidenote, you also attack me for being "biased" and "unreasonable" yet you have never provided me with an objective and fair viewpoint complete with proof and valid argument structure; only bullshit and nonsense which has spurred me to refute your silliness. If you're bitter because I can see through your shit, well... too bad. I suggest you learn from a cat's basic mistake and either cover up your shit better or don't shit at all.

Read the fight between Dooku and Anakin in ROTS novelization. Not to mention, why in the world would I have to substantiate it? It's either unlimited, or limited..

You mean the novelisation is somehow superior to the movie as canon? Cuz, we all know that's not true. The novelisation, which is consistantly inaccurate and doesn't portray the movie at all, and is based on an earlier version of the script where Dooku pretty much throws the fight thinking he'll be given amnesty, doesn't convince me. I didn't see Kit Fisto's head on the desk in the movie, ergo it didn't happen. And I'm inclined to think the same thing of anything else that was quoted in the movie as true, especially since Stover is wanton in his exaggerations and inaccurate in his depiction of the movie. If you want to argue this, I suggest you go shout it on a streetcorner, because I'm not convinced. Nothing in SW canon states that I have to accept everything in a contradictory piece of C-canon as fact when the movie hints nor shows any such thing. The idea that Anakin Skywalker has "unlimited energy reserves" is such a piece of hyperbole and bullshit that I'm surprised anyone else would assert it... well,save you. You'd argue that Anakin Skywalker could cure cancer with his backsweat if it fit your horrid argument.

Respectable and powerhouse are two different terms. Your master could be a mediocre saber master at best. Beating your master does not make you powerful. Otherwise all of the dark jedi converts who killed their masters would be "powerhouses".

No, they wouldn't be. Most dark jedi converts in the series killed their masters through unexpected treachery. Even in Shatterpoint when Depa freaks out and murders people left and right, Mace still doesn't kill his own former padawan. Killing one's apprentice isn't as easy as it seems when they ambush you. But you can still defeat them through superior skill if the situation isn't totally against you.

Nothing was against Vodo when he approached Exar Kun in the senatorial chambers, save for the fact that his nemesis was not his former inept and headstrong padawan but a Dark Lord of the Sith second to none in this timeframe. Exar Kun dispatched Vodo the instant he was convinced that his former master would not join his cause. This is a far cry from Anakin who hated Obi-Wan from the word "go" and was unable to dispatch him and ended up being an amputee. And again, if you think Vodo is somehow a noob because he can force a walking stick to be "more powerful" than a lightsaber according to narration (And yet Exar Kun broke through such power twice) and Vodo was able to find balance points in fighters and disable them using his walking stick as noted in narration...... Well, please feel free to provide instances, proof, and valid argument structures.

Until then, STFU, because your rampant asserting and trolling only makes you look a bigger fool.

Oh right, because faith equates to power. That's a wonderful argument. I guess Anakin was superman because he thought he was superman/because he thought he could overthrow the chancellor. Guess what, the burden of proof is on you to prove that Vodo was anything other than an average Jedi, because all of the proof states the opposite.

I'm not quite sure I understand your stance, DS. You expect me to believe that a Jedi Master who had taught Exar Kun everything he knew as a Jedi and who had some extraordinary powers as a Jedi master and had trained many in combat and had, as the narration claimed, considerable experience and was adept at finding one's balance and exploiting it.... was somehow an overconfident dumbass with no power whatsoever and even though Exar Kun tooled him with hardly any effort, Kun must somehow be weaker than Anakin Skywalker for it?

Oh, okay. I get it.

Well, in that light, Dooku was overconfident that he thought he could defeat Anakin Skywalker in combat by himself and he got dead. Thus, Anakin Skywalker sucks because he defeated Dooku who was overconfident and must somehow be a dumbass because he hasn't had four novels, a movie series and a comic book line dedicated to him.

Yeah, I can swing with your skewed logic, DS. It's amusing how I need to prove much more yet you claim to have the comics. Tell me- can you provide the page number for the duel sequence between Kun and Vodo? All of them?

I didn't know experience=skill. If that was the case, 800 year old Yoda would have wiped the floor with 63 year old Sidious.

Ridiculous. You're confusing general age with experience specific to duelling. Jedi in Vodo's time wore battle armor and trained in groups. Yoda is shown mostly teaching padawans to think outside of the box and to deflect laser bolts from a remote which is about as deadly as a poorly nailed cupboard door. And even more amusing is that Yoda did wipe the floor with Sidious; the latter was lucky to manage to grab a handrail, or else he would have been ****ed.

Anyways, to refocus your strawmanning back into a rational light, the narration cites Vodo's skill and experience as being the reason why he unbalanced Kun and defeated him initially. This clearly shows us that Vodo is no "noob" to fighting and that he can down people when he needs to. If you need novels and comics and NEC claiming he's a sabergod well... TFB. I don't have that. Either accept it or give it up.

I never argued that Kun WASNT strong Janus, so why bring it up? I believe he's listed as 6'3? Obviously he was strong, but so was Anakin. But the problem is we can't exactly quantify how strong they were if they used the force to boost their strength..

No, you've argued that somehow Anakin's strength is superior to Kun's or enough to give him an edge in combat; I want you to substantiate this claim or STFU. Clear enough for you?

I didn't see Dooku doing it to Anakin? I didn't see it in their fight in AOTC either.

Dooku didn't Force choke anyone in AOTC.... this doesn't mean he couldn't. Clearly, he could Force choke Obi-Wan and throw him around like a ragdoll. I don't see Anakin being superior to Obi-Wan in the Force; especially during a Force duel. If Anakin Skywalker can't beat Obi-Wan Kenobi in a Force push in mid-battle, I don't see how you expect him to hold up to Exar Kun, who swats around Jedi with his ego before he even has to draw his lightsaber.

Was Kun a master of force choke? Did he know it?

LMFAO!

Obviously you're the master of SW Lore, DS. Let me clarify something for you:

Kun's Force ghost, while left in isolation for thousands of years and virtually insane, possessed the body of Kyp Durron and was able to Force Choke Luke's Jedi apprentices with little effort. Said apprentices are also noted as being trained to resist Force TK as all Jedi are trained to do; yet they were overpowered. And this is Kun's midi-chlorian-less spirit. Think about this for a minute before you spout off another uneducated assertion!

Did he know it. LMFAO. Yeah, I'm sure no Force user is capable of the simple TK needed to choke someone. Yeah, the idea of constricting their throat is a mystery known only by ancients and Anakin Skywalker, whereas all sorts of Force user augment their speed, push buttons, close doors, deactivate droids, control minds, and control the spin of die to effect a game of chance through sheer Force TK.... Yeah, absolutely. No way Kun would ever know such a secret art

LMFAO!

Assuming he can break through Anakin's defenses with the force, then he wins the force fight. WHat's he going to do, force pull him into the lightsaber?

Why would he have to? If he can overpower Anakin, Anakin's at his mercy. Choke him, blast him, throw him about, shock him, etc. Doesn't matter. Fight's over at that point.

Again, in saber combat or in an all out fight? He would probably have difficulty breaking through Obiwan's defenses but would eventually. Dooku couldn't break them in pure saber combat.

lol. You really don't know much, do you? Obi-Wan's Soresu doesn't take initiative. That means he can't win the battle unless Kun idiotically exposes himself or leaves an opening. And since Obi-Wan doesn't do Dark Side powers like Force choke, I can see Exar Kun either tooling the shit out of Obi-Wan with masterful duelling or simply choking him to death and hurling him into oblivion like a flea. The fight is not going to be Exar Kun flurrying stupidly at Obi-Wan who is somehow going to be able to block all of it without being killed. Don't be daft, DS.

Good god Janus do you read? I know it's not limited to lightsaber dueling. In an all out fight, Exar Kun would win, provided he doesn't engage in saber combat. If he DOES, it's a whole new ball game.

I do read. And no, it wouldn't change if he engages in lightsaber combat.

What a wonderful and yet useless post. I don't claim to have all the sources and in fact, I probably have less than everybody elses. You accuse me of using other people's arguments or ideas, so prove it.

Wait, you just admitted you don't have all the sources and the facts and that you have less than everybody else, and yet I have to prove that you use other people's ideas and arguments? WTF? So you somehow came to those conclusions without copping other people's ideas? You developed those in the void of ignorance that you admit to have? That's the most laughable thing I've ever heard.

Here, DS.... Take this electric toaster, plug it in and go play with it in the bathtub.

I've proven that Exar Kun's preferred method is the lightsaber.

No, you haven't.

It's also obvious that Kun has NEVER used his amulet blasts in ANY other instance.

No, it's not "obvious" simply because you claim it. Either prove up or shut up. I prefer both, really. Prove up and then shut up please.

For Kun to start using his amulet blasts, he's going to have to get some distance between him and Anakin.

Um, no. For one, there's no prep time for using the blasts. If you read the comics, you'd see that Exar Kun starts using them while he's being squeezed in the beast's vicelike grip. He uses it several times while moving about, and later uses it on Freedon Nadd without warning. There's no "chant time" or prep time. He can use it as he needs it. The idea that he can't fire one off when he needs to is ridiculous, nor does he need distance. He's shown firing blasts at the sith monster while very close to it.

Well, I guess your pathetic argument is done. Crushed. Please, feel free to piss right off and don't reply back. I'd relish in the thought of you actually realizing when you're beaten and fleeing into your stench-filled corner.

Btw, DS I brought your cup:

Originally posted by Janus Marius
You seem to miss the point- no lightsaber duel is going to be complete without access to the Force. And while I note that you haven't exactly proved Anakin the better of the two duellists (Since they can both effectively be argued to be "master swordsmen"😉 Exar Kun is clearly head and shoulders above Anakin in Force mastery and Force relics. So the win goes to the better of the two overall more often than not.

Even you can appreciate this simple logic, I hope.

You can be so silly sometimes, DS. So suddenly lightsaber combat has absolutely nothing to do with use of Force? You mean all those Jedi train for years to "use the Force" and then just only rely on precog (if they have it) and reflexes? That's hilarious. You should do stand-up. Only, as the comedian's prop.

I mean, have you seen this before?

So I guess old Dooku logged out of "Saber fight" mode and went into "zOMG Furce God!!! mod" mode and min/maxed his wisdom and charisma until he could WTFpwn two of the best Jedi the Order had to offer, huh?

There are many reasons why you're an amateur, DS. This is one of them.

Which dissolves your assertion that he's some kind of noob who's going to be smoked by Anakin swinging his glowstick. Exar Kun is very clearly a lightsaber prodigy in his timeframe by admission of his own master, by narration, and by feat of arms. If it requires him leaping through time and WTFpwning Anakin Skywalker to convince you, I can't provide that. You have to either accept that Exar Kun was the best (or among the best) duellists of his time and agree that this makes him capable of giving Anakin fits if not outright tooling him or just stop pissing and moaning, because it bores me.

Vodo isn't a "powerhouse"? Could you elaborate on this claim? Or is this another DS "Vague but there I declared it so it's somehow true" assertions?

Of course I know why: Obi-Wan was only marginally worse, yet he outthought Anakin and let Anakin defeat himself. This same Obi-Wan would have absolutely no chance against a Sith Lord who tools Jedi masters as a hobby. If you can't accept this, you're either a closet Anakin fanboy or (as I suspect) simply being contrary to me because you got banned at my forum for being an irrational antagonistic socking troll. Either accept this or move on, because I don't have the time to spoon-feed you the truth whenever you can't happen upon it for yourself.

You want to substantiate how Obi-Wan Kenobi is somehow the "best Soresu practitioner" in the last four thousand years? Do you have the iron balls to follow this assertion up with proof, or should I accept it simply because your small mind accepts it as true? Seriously, DS, if this is all you have to offer, I could find more stimulating debates by moving to the Video Game Versus forum where people think Goku can beat everything up to Jesus Christ on steroids. Really, I hope you are just warming up.

Anakin defeated Dooku through use of a clever move and far superior in-close strength. He never was noted as being Dooku's superior in Force mastery or lightsaber mastery; all evidence and anecdotes supports the opposite. So you can stop misconstruing this claim and substantiate it via context for once; Anakin beat Dooku because Dooku didn't think Anakin would strongarm him and hack off his hands in-close at that moment. Anakin never successfully defeated Dooku using just the Force, and he sure as hell didn't riposte-parry-melee Dooku to death. I imagine I could defeat Dooku if I pulled his hands forward and did a wrist lock on him. I bet even you could do that. Does that make you Das Uber Duellist? No, it doesn't. So stop using this circumstantial victory as a definate Anakin >>> Dooku, mkay? Thanks.

This is part of the reason why you're a substandard debater, DS; you strawman and draw conclusions from your own unsupported assertions and then claim them as fact.

1. You cite Vodo as a "relative weakling" despite his strength in the Force and the narration's own nod to his considerable experience. You do not substantiate this claim; merely make it and expect it to be gospel.

2. You call Obi-Wan Kenobi the "greatest Soresu master ever" without backing up this claim nor citing how Soresu is somehow more difficult than defeating a Jedi master who can floor people with a walking stick while they possess lightsabers.

Really, Yoda and Sidious technically didn't defeat one another; Yoda was unfortunately redeposited at the bottom of the Senate chamber while Sidious gripped the handrail like he'd fallen and couldn't get up. I don't need GL to do director commentary to see this in the movie. If you want to believe something else, I suggest you go ahead and stop making wild claims.

The bottom line is that Yoda was able to overcome Sidious' best efforts at Force use AND lightsaber use. Sidious can't say the same vice versa. Obviously, Yoda was the superior fighter in the fight. And yet technically he still lost the battle. Whether it was exhaustion, circumstance, bad winds, etc, we could only speculate. The bottom line is that Yoda was beaten by fate more than by Sidious' superiority. And this goes the same for Anakin. Either accept this or stop arguing, because you've proven time and again you can't counter my points; only attack them with haphazard pseudo logic and wild unsupported assertions, neither of which win an argument.

On a related sidenote, you also attack me for being "biased" and "unreasonable" yet you have never provided me with an objective and fair viewpoint complete with proof and valid argument structure; only bullshit and nonsense which has spurred me to refute your silliness. If you're bitter because I can see through your shit, well... too bad. I suggest you learn from a cat's basic mistake and either cover up your shit better or don't shit at all. [/B]

Objective and fair? By saying that Exar Kun would wtfpwn Anakin with the force, and would go the distance with Anakin in saber combat, i'm NOT being objective? Jesus Janus I can see why you're in so much damn denial. Your posts are nothing short of humorous. I'll finish the rest of your crap later.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
You mean the novelisation is somehow superior to the movie as canon? Cuz, we all know that's not true. The novelisation, which is consistantly inaccurate and doesn't portray the movie at all, and is based on an earlier version of the script where Dooku pretty much throws the fight thinking he'll be given amnesty, doesn't convince me. I didn't see Kit Fisto's head on the desk in the movie, ergo it didn't happen. And I'm inclined to think the same thing of anything else that was quoted in the movie as true, especially since Stover is wanton in his exaggerations and inaccurate in his depiction of the movie. If you want to argue this, I suggest you go shout it on a streetcorner, because I'm not convinced. Nothing in SW canon states that I have to accept everything in a contradictory piece of C-canon as fact when the movie hints nor shows any such thing. The idea that Anakin Skywalker has "unlimited energy reserves" is such a piece of hyperbole and bullshit that I'm surprised anyone else would assert it... well,save you. You'd argue that Anakin Skywalker could cure cancer with his backsweat if it fit your horrid argument.

Nothing was against Vodo when he approached Exar Kun in the senatorial chambers, save for the fact that his nemesis was not his former inept and headstrong padawan but a Dark Lord of the Sith second to none in this timeframe. Exar Kun dispatched Vodo the instant he was convinced that his former master would not join his cause. This is a far cry from Anakin who hated Obi-Wan from the word "go" and was unable to dispatch him and ended up being an amputee. And again, if you think Vodo is somehow a noob because he can force a walking stick to be "more powerful" than a lightsaber according to narration (And yet Exar Kun broke through such power twice) and Vodo was able to find balance points in fighters and disable them using his walking stick as noted in narration...... Well, please feel free to provide instances, proof, and valid argument structures.

Until then, STFU, because your rampant asserting and trolling only makes you look a bigger fool.

I'm not quite sure I understand your stance, DS. You expect me to believe that a Jedi Master who had taught Exar Kun everything he knew as a Jedi and who had some extraordinary powers as a Jedi master and had trained many in combat and had, as the narration claimed, considerable experience and was adept at finding one's balance and exploiting it.... was somehow an overconfident dumbass with no power whatsoever and even though Exar Kun tooled him with hardly any effort, Kun must somehow be weaker than Anakin Skywalker for it?

Well, in that light, Dooku was overconfident that he thought he could defeat Anakin Skywalker in combat by himself and he got dead. Thus, Anakin Skywalker sucks because he defeated Dooku who was overconfident and must somehow be a dumbass because he hasn't had four novels, a movie series and a comic book line dedicated to him.

Yeah, I can swing with your skewed logic, DS. It's amusing how I need to prove much more yet you claim to have the comics. Tell me- can you provide the page number for the duel sequence between Kun and Vodo? All of them?

Ridiculous. You're confusing general age with experience specific to duelling. Jedi in Vodo's time wore battle armor and trained in groups. Yoda is shown mostly teaching padawans to think outside of the box and to deflect laser bolts from a remote which is about as deadly as a poorly nailed cupboard door. And even more amusing is that Yoda did wipe the floor with Sidious; the latter was lucky to manage to grab a handrail, or else he would have been ****ed.

Anyways, to refocus your strawmanning back into a rational light, the narration cites Vodo's skill and experience as being the reason why he unbalanced Kun and defeated him initially. This clearly shows us that Vodo is no "noob" to fighting and that he can down people when he needs to. If you need novels and comics and NEC claiming he's a sabergod well... TFB. I don't have that. Either accept it or give it up.

No, you've argued that somehow Anakin's strength is superior to Kun's or enough to give him an edge in combat; I want you to substantiate this claim or STFU. Clear enough for you?

Dooku didn't Force choke anyone in AOTC.... this doesn't mean he couldn't. Clearly, he could Force choke Obi-Wan and throw him around like a ragdoll. I don't see Anakin being superior to Obi-Wan in the Force; especially during a Force duel. If Anakin Skywalker can't beat Obi-Wan Kenobi in a Force push in mid-battle, I don't see how you expect him to hold up to Exar Kun, who swats around Jedi with his ego before he even has to draw his lightsaber.

Kun's Force ghost, while left in isolation for thousands of years and virtually insane, possessed the body of Kyp Durron and was able to Force Choke Luke's Jedi apprentices with little effort. Said apprentices are also noted as being trained to resist Force TK as all Jedi are trained to do; yet they were overpowered. And this is Kun's midi-chlorian-less spirit. Think about this for a minute before you spout off another uneducated assertion!

Did he know it. LMFAO. Yeah, I'm sure no Force user is capable of the simple TK needed to choke someone. Yeah, the idea of constricting their throat is a mystery known only by ancients and Anakin Skywalker, whereas all sorts of Force user augment their speed, push buttons, close doors, deactivate droids, control minds, and control the spin of die to effect a game of chance through sheer Force TK.... Yeah, absolutely. No way Kun would ever know such a secret art
Omg Kun knows a technique, that MEANS he would use it!! I guess because Kun was stated as knowing force lightning, he went around zapping people... Oh wait..

[quote]Why would he have to? If he can overpower Anakin, Anakin's at his mercy. Choke him, blast him, throw him about, shock him, etc. Doesn't matter. Fight's over at that point.

Wait, you just admitted you don't have all the sources and the facts and that you have less than everybody else, and yet I have to prove that you use other people's ideas and arguments? WTF? So you somehow came to those conclusions without copping other people's ideas? You developed those in the void of ignorance that you admit to have? That's the most laughable thing I've ever heard.

Here, DS.... Take this electric toaster, plug it in and go play with it in the bathtub.

No, you haven't. [/B]

You simply stating "no you haven't" doesn't make it so. In virtually every confrontation Kun has come with a saber. But suddenly because Janus is a fanboy, Kun is going to come with force maneuvers and amulet blasts out of his ass. Unproven, unfounded, or just plain stupid?

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Btw, DS I brought your cup:

The fact that you would post a full page worth of useless crap and don't give me time to respond before you post this, makes you look like a massive tool. But that's ok Janus because you're not exactly great at comebacks, or even insults, so I don't hold it against you.. So lets see what we've established.

A. You're an angry, ignorant douchebag who can't see past his own text, who argues against sources/logic while ignoring others, and who likes to post e-victory threads after getting butt hurt by little old me. I don't know if it's because you have too much time on your hands, I hurt your feewings, or it's just that time of the month for you.

B. I've established that Anakin CAN beat Kun in a saber duel. You've turned around and claimed that I thought Anakin was better in the force, or physically, etc.

C. Your reading comprehension skills are on a first grade level. I suggest you do some exercises during your high paying, lucrative job.

D. Denial doesn't make your argument better.

E. If you're going to ***** and moan, at least offer up a somewhat cogent argument instead of "omg no". So please Janus...

Oh, I almost forgot Janice. In keeping with the internet tradition of every delusional forum nerd everywhere (that would be you judging by your victory party):

Now please do us a favor and roll down the hill into oncoming traffic.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Well Janus, let me first start off by saying that I expected you to ***** and moan to yourself for quite a while, but after reading this and the fact that you had to post your 'internet pwnage' of tdtd, this is going to be hilarious.. Now... Exar Kun is head and shoulders above Anakin in force abilities... But um... Dooku was head and shoulders above Anakin in force abilities.. Sidious was head and shoulders above Mace in force abilities. There goes your case.

Oh my. One must love this argument. Really. Dooku was head and shoulders above Anakin in force abilities. Correct. Hence he could have killed Anakin had he ever intended to do so which, as we know, wasn't the case. It would have been laughable easy for him to kill Anakin after the scene depicted in Janus' .gif-file, instead of bringing down that metal structure on the already knocked out Kenobi.

And Sidious and Mace ? You might have realized already that Mace was head and shoulders above Sidious when it came to lightsaber combat and had unique abilities (Shatterpoint, Vaapad mindset) that gave him additional advantages over the Sith Lord. I don't see how any of that applies on Anakin when comparing him to Exar Kun in the lightsaber department.

Oh right Janus, and when it became a 1 on 1 fight and Anakin immersed himself in the dark side, Dooku=pwd.

Dooku was defeated by an immensly unconventional attack of Anakin who utilized his physical superiority over the Sith Lord. Kun is far stronger than Dooku and also appears to be physically tougher in comparison to Anakin.

I said that not only would it be difficult for Kun, but Anakin very likely can win. Great reading skills Janice..

Which is total bullshit.
We all know that force abilities do play a nice role in lightsaber combat. You acknowledge that Kun is far superior to Anakin in that department. So let's see. Anakin would be confronted with a guy that is pretty impressive when it comes to raw physical power. Yet that guy, due to superior force mastery, is also capable of boosting his strength, his reflexes, his agility, his dexterity and his precognition more than Anakin could do and aside of that seems to be pretty skilled when it comes down to sheer swordsplay. How the hell is Anakin going to win a lightsaber duel against him ? He simply has no advantage in comparison to Exar Kun.

I don't need to elaborate Janus. Nothing he did made him anything but average. "But DS he was like the BEST in da 0rder LOL". Yes Janice...It would be up to YOU to prove that Vodo was anything more than an average Jedi because the comics state otherwise.

Where did the comics state that Vodo was an "average Jedi" ? Did you ever read "The Freedom Nadd Uprising" ? No ? Because obviously your "average" Jedi Vodo is responsible for training students in lightsaber combat as he does so on Ossus. He's even training the apprentices of other Masters (such as Thon) in that department. Can you please tell me why other masters would ship their scholars to Ossus so that they can receive their lightsaber training from an "average Jedi" ?

Obviously Vodo was pretty skilled in the combat department. Even more skilled than any other Jedi Master in that time because otherwise it wouldn't make sense for them to make their apprentices learn the art of the lightsaber from Vodo instead of training them theirselves.

And if you'd take a look into the DLotS comics you would also see that they wanted to wait for Vodo before starting their conclave on Deneba because they obviously wanted to have Vodo's oppinion on the Krath threat.

Conclusion: Vodo seems to be the TOTJ eras main lightsaber instructor (or "Battlemaster"😉 meaning that he's definetely one of the best if not the best Jedi when it comes down to lightsaber combat in his own era. Which obviously says a lot about Kun's skill considering Vodo notes that Kun is "the best student he has ever trained" and the fact that Kun pretty much tooled him in their confrontation in the Senate.

The circumstances of the Anakin fight are different than the rest. Stop playing stupid. Obiwan beat him because he TAUGHT him every move and knew Anakin backwards and forwards.

He taught Anakin every lightsaber move. Oh yes. That's why they're using totally different lightsaber forms which encorporate opposite philosophies. And he knew him inside out ? Nice. I guess Kun would have extensive knowledge about Anakin's lightsaber skill because he seems to be using it himself in certain situations in the comics. On the other hand Anakin would be confronted with a weapon he's not familiar with, a style he's not familiar with and all of that being used by a guy who's more powerful in any department than he is. Once more: How is Anakin going to win that ?

Did I say the best, or did I say one of the best soresu users ever?

Does it matter as you have nothing to proof either of that statements ?

Anakin defeated Dooku because by the time he immersed himself in the dark side, he became better than Dooku.

Says who ? Lightsnake ? Didn't know that Lightsnake words are canon. He moved from level 8 to 9 ? I also didn't know that Nick Gillards words are canon.

I didn't see Dooku force choking or using the force on Anakin in either fight. What's your point? What do you mean Kun swats Jedi around? Oh you mean that one time with Sylvar? I didn't see him swat anyone around when he went up to Ulic, to Vodo, to Ood. I believe he took out his saber and started fighting. Try again Janus.

Yeah. Let's do some reality check. He totally tools Odan with a single force attack. He smites Freedon Nadd's spirit with an amulet blasts and he happily destroys Aleema Keto with a Sith magic attack. Then he goes on and tosses Sylvar around like a ragdoll with apparent ease. If you want to take his action in the JA trilogy into consideration he also prefers acting threw using force abilities even when having the means (control Kyp) to start some physical attacks.

And notice that this is not the story forum where we invent some nice little stories about characters fighting. This is a versus forum where a character would use the best he could do to kill his opponent. If you consider Kun's lightsaber skills not the best he could (which is what you do and well...they still would be enough to deal with Anakin) you have to suggest that he will try to own Anakin with his force abilities.

So I wonder why you try to debate here, being very well aware of the fact that you don't have any point whatever you want to argue ?

I think I'll remain safely outta this one, now...

Btw, Nai....since when did you get into House?

Dude... it's House. You can't "get into it." It just is.