Exar Kun Vs Anakin with a twist

Originally posted by Borbarad
Because Kun is the better lightsaber duellist and the superior force user he's going to win.

Not to mention how nice it is that LS doesn't even bother to come up with some stuff here. Smart decission, if you ask me. Gives entirely new meaning to the sentence "Don't feed the troll", eh ?

Thx for your opinion, now stfu N00b..

Originally posted by Borbarad
No. It's [b]Kindergarten, because it's a German word, DS. [/B]

Yes, Kindergarten/kindergarten, NOT THE Kindergarten.....

DS:

But you have NOT established that Kun is the better lightsaber duelist Nai, Simply saying he is doesn't make it so.

Nai's argument for Kun:

* Is a master swordsman who outduelled a prestigious battlemaster as well as saber prodigy and war hero Ulic.
* Is shown utilizing Form V-type movements.
* Is known to have used two sabers well enough to overcome and humiliate his prestigious master.
* Later toyed with his master and killed him.
* The only known user of his particular lightsaber, which required its own unique style thanks to its handle.

Your argument for Anakin:

* He beat Dooku "in teh z0n3!"

Let's be practical here. Nai hasn't conclusively proved Kun > Anakin, but you sure as hell haven't proved anything for your side besides arguing a fight which simply doesn't apply here.

No, that's your main opinion. An argument would consist of proof.

Actually, an argument consists of a valid, sound logical premise followed by equally valid, sound conclusions based on real values (Read: logical knowns or sources). You haven't even begun to do this, so you don't have jack shit to call Nai out on. He's done a rather admirable job of defending his side. Considering that Nai (as well as a few other members of the board) is clearly better schooled in reasoning than yourself and capable of forming precise and working arguments, his stance wins out because you have no substance.

Yet the Obiwan vs. Anakin fight seems obvious to everybody except for you, which is why nobody uses it to try to diminish Anakin's saber abilities.

Here you go again; asserting without proof.

Prove up or shut up, DS. This pretender to the throne of logic crap is absolutely obnoxious.

Is Vodo on Dooku's level? Common sense and logical deduction says no. Since when does character X have to perform the same feat as character Y?

You haven't even begun to use logic here, so why lecture on it, DS?

"Common sense" is not a valid, sound premise. Stop using it. "Apparent to everyone" or "clearly obvious" are more of the same. You should never ever ever assume that something is "plainly evident" unless it's an axiom. If you even know what axioms are, I'd be surprised, because your lack of education on how a logical argument works baffles me. You must speed-read the Wiki articles.

You are also missing the point by strawmanning; Vodo and Dooku are both respected warriors and masters of their own respective times. In order to compare them, we have to take what we known about each and put it in relative context. Appeal to "common sense" doesn't solve arguments, DS; it belittles them.

ets try this again boo. I am saying that Anakin COULD win this saber battle, as could Kun, as in it could go either way. This is a FACT because your argument is either "Kun is superior with the force" or "Kun tooled Vodo". That's not an argument Nai.

You've religiously asserted (Note: asserted, never given proof) that Anakin could "take this" in a saber fight, or that it's too close to tell. Your evidence? "Teh Annykin beets teh Duuku!!111". Let's be real here- we've gone over the fight many times and you won't budge. Let's look at Anakin's other "glory fights":

1. He gets tossed around by Ventress until he uses his "zOMG Dark seid god mod" and barely wins.

2. Obi-Wan defeats him "in teh z0n3".

Well, so far, so bad... Your turn, DS.

No Nai, I am arguing lightsaber combat period. Notice how the force was never an issue here? Please stop playing stupid, it's getting old.

Actually, you did assert that Kun would be some big idiot and just run up to Anakin who would use his Gameshark "Dark seid hax" mode and just run him through. You also asserted that Exar Kun, who has Sith artifacts to boost his already considerable power, is going to take no use of them what so ever and just get tooled like some kind of idiot.

But then you say 'Kun > Anakin in the Force. Anakin wins because he's better with a saber because he beat Dooku and Dooku > Vodo because "Common Sense" says so and he can use Dark Seid Hax and just push Exar Kun around like a ragdoll.'

I pretty much summed up everything you've ever said on this thread just there.

Congratulations dumbshit. Then you somehow made the assertion that even with VAAPAD, Mace was just Sidious' equal.

Which is clearly what Stover wanted us to think since he wrote the line, and he clearly fleshed out Vaapad and most of Mace's EU personality. With Vaapad alone, Mace could contend with Sidious' speed element. With Shatterpoint, he overcomes him. Mace > Sidious. There, see it now?

You don't think so? Wow Nai it MUST be true then. Let us use your logic then. Kun was younger than Vodo and he had the element of surprise on him with the Jar'Kai style. Oh wait, but you're going to argue that Kun is superior to Vodo. Double standards are a *****.

Had the element of surprise? Do you even know what you're talking about? Obviously, you don't. You should shut up before you start to look even more stupid, DS.

There is no flaw in my line of thought. The two knew each other inside and out. Anakin couldn't break his defenses because Obiwan KNEW what he was going to do. Obiwan couldn't get on the offensive because Anakin KNEW what he was going to do. Yet Anakin kept pushing Obiwan back each time. It was his arrogance that allowed Obiwan to get the victory.

Claiming that they each had sufficient knowledge of each other to implement and thus equal each other out seems a bit silly. Several times they surprise each other, and Anakin clearly is so busy being angry that he can't think straight enough to outthink Kenobi. And if there's anything we know about Kenobi it's that he's a cagey opponent who outthinks better duellists all the time, unless they're played by Chris Lee.

The point remains that even with his enhanced knowledge and raging emo hormones, he still couldn't overcome someone who is barely a sabergod in his own era. Pitting the same kid against a bonafide Sith Lord who toyed with his own master and killed many more without any apparent effort is simply blind bias.

Wow.. HE floored him.. He found his weak spot and used it to his advantage because he was EXPERIENCED, and while Kun was a saber prodigy, he was NOT experienced. Nice job proving nothing.

Actually, Nai noted as I did earlier that Vodo is clearly shown to be experienced. Experienced in what? Combat. Ergo he is not some blathering idiot with a stick like you so want him to be.

Yet Ulic was capable of stalemating Kun while Vodo wasn't. The same Kun who became more powerful as a sith...Vodo floored him because he was EXPERIENCED while Kun was NOT. Kun fixed that VERY soon.

Kun and Ulic clash and neither can claim the upper hand, but then the fight is simply ended by Ragnos and the ancients. This gives us an indication of their relation to each other at this point, but Kun goes on to develop his own weapon and train with it in a time frame noted as being sufficient for the Massassi to build him "hundreds" of temples. He then uses this completely new foreign weapon and style and destroys Vodo, his master, with absolutely no effort. So while Ulic may seem to be more impressive than Vodo, the fight itself was brief and Vodo faced a more experienced Sith lord who had perfected his own weapon at this point.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
DS:

Nai's argument for Kun:

* Is a master swordsman who outduelled a prestigious battlemaster as well as saber prodigy and war hero Ulic.
* Is shown utilizing Form V-type movements.
* Is known to have used two sabers well enough to overcome and humiliate his prestigious master.
* Later toyed with his master and killed him.
* The only known user of his particular lightsaber, which required its own unique style thanks to its handle.

Your argument for Anakin:

* He beat Dooku "in teh z0n3!"[/quote]
Did you also conveniently forget that he was a saber prodigy? He also defeated Asajj. His defeat of Dooku is considered very impressive, unless we're going to go by the assumption that Vodo is anywhere in Dooku's league.

Let's be practical here. Nai hasn't conclusively proved Kun > Anakin, but you sure as hell haven't proved anything for your side besides arguing a fight which simply doesn't apply here.[/quote]
The simple fact that Anakin DID end up defeating Dooku means he's no slouch with a saber. The ONLY advantage Kun would have in a saber duel is a unique blade and style. But then again, was Anakin familiar with Jar'kai, or Dooku's form 2?

Actually, an argument consists of a valid, sound logical premise followed by equally valid, sound conclusions based on real values (Read: logical knowns or sources). You haven't even begun to do this, so you don't have jack shit to call Nai out on. He's done a rather admirable job of defending his side. Considering that Nai (as well as a few other members of the board) is clearly better schooled in reasoning than yourself and capable of forming precise and working arguments, his stance wins out because you have no substance.

"Common sense" is not a valid, sound premise. Stop using it. "Apparent to everyone" or "clearly obvious" are more of the same. You should never ever ever assume that something is "plainly evident" unless it's an axiom. If you even know what axioms are, I'd be surprised, because your lack of education on how a logical argument works baffles me. You must speed-read the Wiki articles.

You are also missing the point by strawmanning; Vodo and Dooku are both respected warriors and masters of their own respective times. In order to compare them, we have to take what we known about each and put it in relative context. Appeal to "common sense" doesn't solve arguments, DS; it belittles them.

1. He gets tossed around by Ventress until he uses his "zOMG Dark seid god mod" and barely wins.

2. Obi-Wan defeats him "in teh z0n3".

Well, so far, so bad... Your turn, DS.

Actually, you did assert that Kun would be some big idiot and just run up to Anakin who would use his Gameshark "Dark seid hax" mode and just run him through. You also asserted that Exar Kun, who has Sith artifacts to boost his already considerable power, is going to take no use of them what so ever and just get tooled like some kind of idiot.

But then you say 'Kun > Anakin in the Force. Anakin wins because he's better with a saber because he beat Dooku and Dooku > Vodo because "Common Sense" says so and he can use Dark Seid Hax and just push Exar Kun around like a ragdoll.'

Which is clearly what Stover wanted us to think since he wrote the line, and he clearly fleshed out Vaapad and most of Mace's EU personality. With Vaapad alone, Mace could contend with Sidious' speed element. With Shatterpoint, he overcomes him. Mace > Sidious. There, see it now?

Had the element of surprise? Do you even know what you're talking about? Obviously, you don't. You should shut up before you start to look even more stupid, DS.

The point remains that even with his enhanced knowledge and raging emo hormones, he still couldn't overcome someone who is barely a sabergod in his own era. Pitting the same kid against a bonafide Sith Lord who toyed with his own master and killed many more without any apparent effort is simply blind bias.

Actually, Nai noted as I did earlier that Vodo is clearly shown to be experienced. Experienced in what? Combat. Ergo he is not some blathering idiot with a stick like you so want him to be.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
But you have NOT established that Kun is the better lightsaber duelist Nai, Simply saying he is doesn't make it so.

Trying to shift the burden of proof again, DS ? You claimed that Kun wouldn't win a lightsaber duel against Anakin while saying that Kun is the superior force user meaning that you have to proof that Anakin is a superior lightsaber combatant in comparison to Kun.

No, that's your main opinion. An argument would consist of proof.

If you think I'm going to repeat myself once again you've thought wrong. I've come up with enough points - you've chosen to ignore them. Fine with me.

Yet the Obiwan vs. Anakin fight seems obvious to everybody except for you, which is why nobody uses it to try to diminish Anakin's saber abilities.

Yes. It's quite obvious to me that it was Anakin who ended up without legs and took a nice lava bath because he wasn't capable of overcoming his masters. Something Kun, on the other hand, did.

Is Vodo on Dooku's level? Common sense and logical deduction says no. Since when does character X have to perform the same feat as character Y?

Did Anakin outduel Dooku ? Nope. You can side this point over and over again but it still won't turn Anakin into an uber lightsaber combatant.

Lets try this again boo. I am saying that Anakin COULD win this saber battle, as could Kun, as in it could go either way. This is a FACT because your argument is either "Kun is superior with the force" or "Kun tooled Vodo". That's not an argument Nai.

I've quoted your words, DS. Don't try to worm yourself out of the situation. You've stated that you don't think Kun can take Anakin in a lightsaber duel and now I want your argument for it. You don't have one ? Then stop the antagonizing.

No Nai, I am arguing lightsaber combat period. Notice how the force was never an issue here? Please stop playing stupid, it's getting old.

You're the one that plays stupid here. You've acknowledge already (DE Sidious) that force mastery has a rather great influence on lightsaber combat. You've also acknowledged that Kun is by far superior to Anakin when it comes to force mastery. You can "argue" lightsaber combat until you're blue in the face but unless you present me anything that leads to the suggestion that despite of that two points Anakin could win a lightsaber fight against Kun, that is not an issue. Got it ? Hope so.

Wow.. That's all I can say about your intellectual capacity Nai.

That's all you can say about most topics, DS, because you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

Congratulations dumbshit. Then you somehow made the assertion that even with VAAPAD, Mace was just Sidious' equal.

Not I. Matthew Stover in the RotS novel, which I did quote. Must be hard not being able to figure that one out after I rammed your head on it twice now.

Nope, I said Anakin COULD win this, not that Kun COULDN'T. Learn to read.

No. You said you don't believe Kun wins. Period. Twist it until your brain comes out of your ears. Won't change the words from you that I quoted.

You don't think so? Wow Nai it MUST be true then. Let us use your logic then. Kun was younger than Vodo and he had the element of surprise on him with the Jar'Kai style. Oh wait, but you're going to argue that Kun is superior to Vodo. Double standards are a *****.

No. It must be true because once more the RotS novel does state it. And I don't have to argue that Kun was superior to Vodo because the NEC has that written down black on white. Double standards ? I don't see some. I just see stupid comparisons such as comparing pre-Sith Kun to DLotS Kun.

There is no flaw in my line of thought.

Sure. There is no line of thought in the first place.

The two knew each other inside and out. Anakin couldn't break his defenses because Obiwan KNEW what he was going to do. Obiwan couldn't get on the offensive because Anakin KNEW what he was going to do. Yet Anakin kept pushing Obiwan back each time. It was his arrogance that allowed Obiwan to get the victory.

No. What allowed Obi-Wan to get the victory was the fact that he was the superior tactician and had his mind focused on the fight. Yes. Anakin acted rather stupid - but that's more one of his character traits than a real exception.

Wow.. HE floored him.. He found his weak spot and used it to his advantage because he was EXPERIENCED, and while Kun was a saber prodigy, he was NOT experienced. Nice job proving nothing.

Yeah. Kun gained experience in the matter of 30 seconds from "getting floored" to "defeat his master". That makes so much sense, DS.

Separate. But we'll just blame that on "3AM". But please lets assume Vodo trained THOUSANDS.. Dumbass.

Over several centuries when we see him training 6 apprentices in some weeks ? Yeah.

Yet Ulic was capable of stalemating Kun while Vodo wasn't. The same Kun who became more powerful as a sith...Vodo floored him because he was EXPERIENCED while Kun was NOT. Kun fixed that VERY soon.

Yes. "Very soon" is = 30 seconds later when Kun defeated Vodo. I guess going from unexperienced prodigy to master swordsmen in that amount of time is pretty unique in the SW universe, eh ? Or maybe your plain and simply stupid.

Who taught you how to be witty? In case you are lost here, the question is rhetorical because you have no idea how to be witty..

Error 404 - The funny can not be displayed. 🙁

OMG Darth Shithead. I guess I'm the one in "kindergarten"!!!

Oh. They called you Darth Shithead in kindergarten ? That certainly is interesting from a psychological point of view. Yet I don't see where is the point for this debate in that. Ah yes. You don't have friends and therefore you have to troll around. Sure. Thanks.

No, I wouldn't debate Greek Philosophy because I personally don't care too much about it and I could be doing other useful things with my time, like teaching you grammar and the art of common sense.

I wonder how somebody would be able to teach me logic without caring about Greek Philosophy. Grammar ? As if I care. Common sense ? Ah yes. Caeci caecos ducentes ?

And no Nai, everyone here has the right to get the sources from someone else without spending money. You're just too stupid to realize this.

No. You are just too stupid to get the point. You come in here going "nooo Kun isn't stronger then Anakin". I ask you, why you think so and you reply with "Oh. Dunno. Read something somewhere. But Lightsnake has the sources !". WTF ? Unless you have something to refute my points, stop arguing. That was the point. Not your right to get yourself some sources. I would appreciate that as you know jack shit about the SW Universe and still try to debate here.

Thx for your opinion, now stfu N00b...

Once more: Does the moon care if the wolf howls at it ? You don't have to be so aggressive, little one. I don't care about what you're thinking and you're still only holding yourself up to ridicule. Quite funny though but still pathetic.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Trying to shift the burden of proof again, DS ? You claimed that Kun wouldn't win a lightsaber duel against Anakin while saying that Kun is the superior force user meaning that you have to proof that Anakin is a superior lightsaber combatant in comparison to Kun.

No. [b]You are just too stupid to get the point. You come in here going "nooo Kun isn't stronger then Anakin". I ask you, why you think so and you reply with "Oh. Dunno. Read something somewhere. But Lightsnake has the sources !". WTF ? Unless you have something to refute my points, stop arguing. That was the point. Not your right to get yourself some sources. I would appreciate that as you know jack shit about the SW Universe and still try to debate here.

Once more: Does the moon care if the wolf howls at it ? You don't have to be so aggressive, little one. I don't care about what you're thinking and you're still only holding yourself up to ridicule. Quite funny though but still pathetic. [/B]

So I tell you your opinion is meaningless and you spout the same back to me? Gosh Nai, I could hardly tell that you're older than me from reading this crap.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yes, I claimed that Kun wouldn't win the saber duel JUST because he is the superior force user, and I've given you EXAMPLES which DO exist, whether they are exceptions to the rule or not.

Once more, DS. Before I even entered a debate you've already said that you can't see Kun winning a lightsaber fight. So stop with the lies because you are just inable to make a case for Anakin. And your examples are still meaningless. Why don't you get that into your head.

"Omg he pwned Vodo" isn't an argument.

I see you have chosen to play the ignorant further. Ok. Have fun with it.

So by your logic, Kun would defeat Mace because Kun was #1 and Mace was #2? Anakin wasn't the best in his era and Kun was, so that makes Kun superior?

I wonder what post you were reading. It certainly wasn't the one you were replying to. But ok. I'll repeat it again. Kun is superior because he, unlike Anakin, was able to overcome the guy that "taught him all he could". He designed his own blade and style, remained undefeated as a Sith Lord in personal confrontation, toyed with a 600 year old Jedi Master who was cited as "experienced duellist" by the omniscient narrator and has far superior force abilities in comparison to Anakin which would allow him to enchant his raw physical abilities to a greater extend than Anakin could.

"omg he got a lucky move in". So what happened when Kun put Vodo on his ass with the two blades? I guess that would also be called a lucky move if you were to use that same distorted logic. Too much double standards..

Again. Nice strawman. What post are you reading ? The point is that Anakin realized that he's the only being able to safe the lives of Obi-Wan and Sidious in this situation. The novel elaborates on that. Because of that realization he then utilized the Dark Side and did not only surprise Dooku with the new found power but was also fighting with special determination as he thought he had to safe two of the three people that meant the most to him. We saw that Anakin if he "just" enters "teh z0ne" isn't on the same level he was on when he defeated Dooku. His average level of skill, even boosted by the Dark Side, was not enough to overcome Kenobi. So I might ask once more: Why do you think he could be able to defeat Kun ?

You haven't quoted my words Nai, you apparently have trouble reading. I have NEVER said Kun cannot take Anakin. If I did, please show me, or stop accusing me of bullshit. I have stated that Anakin COULD take Kun and vice versa, because they were both saber prodigies who have both shown their abilities. I can also say that Anakin fought the better duelists..

Are you retarded, DS ?
CLICK ME !!!
"I don't see how on earth Kun would win this"

Your first post on this thread here and you are outright stating that you don't see how on earth Kun would win this. This doesn't indicate that "Anakin might possible be able to take Kun" but your stating that Anakin would practically defeat Kun in a lightsaber duel every time because you can't see Kun winning. WTF ? And no you can shut up and stop trying to worm yourself out of that sitation. You outright stated Anakin > Kun in a lightsaber duel and now proof up or shut up.

You do realize that DE Sidious' force mastery allowed him to move faster than the eye could see and kill off storm troopers while he was fighting Luke, not that it MADE him a saber god? Sidious was noted to have known all of the saber styles (excluding Vaapad), so that WOULD make him a saber prodigy don't you think? And you can argue and ***** that the superior force user would always win the saber fight, but I've already proven you wrong by examples, and Kas'im's own words.

You do realize that Kun, when opposed by two guy aiming guns at him, draws his lightsaber, ignites it, cuts one of them down, crosses several metres of distance and cuts the second down before one of both beings, who had already aimed there weapons at him, was capable of pulling the trigger ? You want to talk about speed ? And this is Kun far away from the top of his power when he didn't even start using the Dark Side.
And I wonder how "know all styles" does make somebody a saber god. Cin Drallig did know all styles except form VII and didn't look too good when Anakin did invade the temple, did he ?
And once more: Nice strawman. I never said that the superior force user is always going to win. I said that Kun is going to win against Anakin because, aside from various other points, his force mastery is superior to Anakin allowing him to enchant his physical abilities further than Anakin could. Got it into your head now ?

That could easily be said for you.

Sure.

PLease post this Nai, since you obviously have a difficult time reading. Go ahead and "quote" my words. If you can't find these elusive words (you shouldn't be able to because they don't exist), then shut the hell up about it> I never stated that Kun CANT win..

See above and cry yourself to sleep, DS. You said you see now possibility how Kun could win a lightsaber fight against Anakin. Period. Don't even try to deny it, DS.

So now you're admitting that the better tactician could defeat the more superior saber user?

I wonder how I've admitted that here because I don't see where Anakin was superior to Obi-Wan when it came to bladework. And again nice strawman since I don't recall where I've ever stated that a superior tactician can't win a lightsaber fight. On the other handside: I wonder where this favors your argument. You don't think that Anakin is a superior tactician in comparison to Exar Kun, do you ?

Or the fact that he overwhelmed Vodo with the Jar'Kai style. It's obvious the last thing Vodo expected was for Kun to get right back up, get a second blade, and attack him. Good one Nai.

Haha. Glossing over points seems to be a rather fulfilling hobby, right DS ? The point is not that Kun jumped up and got a second blade. The point is that Vodo was not capable of defending himself against Kun's attack and after this little fight instantly calls Kun the most formidable student he ever had. And notice: This is once more Kun far before his top shape in which he toyed and destroyed Vodo without any effort.

Unsupported Assumption yet again.

Where is the assumption here, DS ? We saw him training 6 apprentices in the comics. The fact that you did never read them doesn't change that. In the same comics we also have the omniscient narrator stating that Nomi just trained "some weeks" under Vodo.

Do you really think that it would be logically sound to assume that Vodo who, according to his own words, did "dedicate his life to training new Jedi" never had any apprentices before or that they training miracously took far more time that that of Crado, Sylvar, Kun, Nomi, Dace, Qrrl and Shaoneb ? That certainly does sound stupid meaning it perfectly fits into your personal views.

If you are going to attempt to ridicule somebody's intelligence, at least don't sound like a complete moron with your pathetic grammar and spelling abilities. I've already explained WHY Kun floored Vodo..

Why should I attempt such a thing, DS ? You're doing the job pretty damn well yourself in case you still didn't notice it. And you've explained nothing, DS. You've assumed that Vodo is somehow not capable to see a second lightsaber flying up to Kun, being ignited and then somehow (while we see that he's defending himself) doesn't even react while Kun breaks his stick. And then Vodo of course goes on to call Kun his most formidable student because he was thinking something like: "Uh. The guy managed to break my stick with a surprise attack. He must be uber." instead of "Damn find duelling skills. Most certainly the best I've ever trained." Yup, DS. Sounds completely right.

Wow, you already sounded stupid with your distorted logic. You sound like a complete imbecile with your unintelligent insults. I can just as easily say that you are a social outcast that has TOO much time on his hands, and you come on these forums to troll and to attempt to act better than others (and fail). At your age I woud expect more from you. But after reading your nonsense, it wouldn't be a stretch to call you a social reject.

Yes. And I could point out the fact that you are the guy having more than 5000 post here produced in about a year while I produced 2000 in more than two years. This would, however, indicate that you're the social outcast here that has far more time on his hand then myself. Which is, on the other hand, no surprise, as I study, have a job and a girlfriend. That are three things that don't apply to you I suppose.

So next time you want to come up with insults better double-check that the things you want to say are applying to yourself far better than to the guy you wanted to insult in the first place, smartass. But at least we now all know how it feels to be you as you've given us such a nice insight to your personal life. Now I can understand why your seeking your destiny on a online board - because you have none outside the internet. What a pitty, DS.

Why would I have to teach you about logic? More pseudointellectual bullshit? Great one Nai. "Oh you don't know (this this and that), so I'm smarter than you". There's just certain things I don't care about Nai. I'm sure there are certain things you don't care about either. It's called different personalities.

Another great statement from Mr Darth Sexy. You don't care about being an uneducated troll, DS ? That certainly is a nice revelation. There is this proverb saying "a fault confessed is half redressed", correct ? Some people would consider a lack of education to be a fault but as you don't seem to be among them, one could be tempted to call you ignorant.

I didn't know were still debating physical superiority Nai. BUt can you factually tell me that it was Kun's physical strength that lifted the Chancellor, and not the amulet? You're still debating that Kun would win a saber fight because he's the superior force user, in which I've refuted successfully.

Oh my, DS. Is it so hard to understand ? You refuted something that I didn't state in the first place. Your talking in general where I'm talking about a specific fight: Kun VS Anakin. It doesn't matter if Kun did it with physical strength (and he pushed Sylvar on her knees with that) or with force aided strength. And I don't have to proof that it "wasn't the amulet". You would have to proof that he used the amulet to archieve this feat and even then it would be pretty impressive to have that guy lifted up with one arm hanging on your damn fingers that you have just hammered through his skull.

"Omg but its the exception not the rule". That's nice Nai, but it still proves the fact that the superior force user is in no way guaranteed a lightsaber victory.

Which I never stated, DS. Nice strawman. I was specifically talking about Kun VS Anakin and not about X vs Y in general just to state that x always wins because he's the superior force user. Hence your "proof" is just what it is: Irrelevant talk.

"Omg he beat Vodo". THat's also nice Nai, if you consider Vodo a powerhouse. And you've been trying desperately to prove that he is, without any success. Training some Jedi and making your stick resistant to lightsaber blows doesn't make you a saber god.

OMG, DS. He didn't train "some" Jedi but dedicated his life to training Jedi (several centuries). And you, I'm afraid, are no greater authority here than the omniscient narrator who lists Vodo as very experienced duellist, nor are you a greater authority than the comics that show how he's able to floor outstandingly gifted lightsaber combatants like Kun with a single movements. The same Kun that tooled his fellow apprentices before and the same Kun that defeats Vodo only seconds after this incident.

So I tell you your opinion is meaningless and you spout the same back to me? Gosh Nai, I could hardly tell that you're older than me from reading this crap.

So you consider your own consideration stupid and immature in the first place ? Nice to know that, DS. Still doesn't change the fact that you've still not contributed anything to this debate and, despite of that, are still posting. *shrugs*

Quick:

BUt can you factually tell me that it was Kun's physical strength that lifted the Chancellor, and not the amulet?

Occam's razor, tdtd. Given the total lack of evidence for Exar Kun's amulets doing anything beyond what was specifically stated by the narration in DLotS (allowing Kun to focus his rage and energy into the beams used to destroy the Sith Wyrm), we must dismiss any assumptions that the amulets had anything to do with him lifting the chancellor. Your horribly skewed interpretation of material you've never read is rejected at face value.

Not to mention that the very point, even if there were elements of truth behind it, is a red herring given that Exar Kun is wearing his amulets in this match.

Wait a second, material that I've never read? That's a good one ..Secondly, we were discussing physical strength, not whether it is going to be applied to the fight, because that would be implied. Learn to read before posting here. Furthermore, it was more of a question/suggestion than me actually claiming it is fact. We were arguing if Exar Kun IS physically stronger and I brought up the idea that it could be force augmented strength with the amulet. I could be wrong (i'm pretty sure I am), but it has nothing to do with the actual fight. Like I said, maybe you should read the posts before spitting out nonsense like me allegedly not having the material.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Wait a second, material that I've never read? That's a good one ..Secondly, we were discussing physical strength, not whether it is going to be applied to the fight, because that would be implied. Learn to read before posting here. Furthermore, it was more of a question/suggestion than me actually claiming it is fact. We were arguing if Exar Kun IS physically stronger and I brought up the idea that it could be force augmented strength with the amulet. I could be wrong (i'm pretty sure I am), but it has nothing to do with the actual fight. Like I said, maybe you should read the posts before spitting out nonsense like me allegedly not having the material.

The thing you've still not gotten into your head, DS, is the following: A Jedi does always have access to the force and every Jedi is able to boost his natural physical strength through his force abilities. Hence it doesn't make sense to even attempt to argue if something was done with aid of the force or without it if the action being discussed was performed by a Jedi Knight or a Sith Lord.

Still: Pushing your fingers through the skull of some alien, lift it up and use it as puppet is impressive force aided or not. And Kun pretty much looks muscle-packed to me in most of the comics which is a description that doesn't really fit Anakin.

Originally posted by Borbarad
The thing you've still not gotten into your head, DS, is the following: A Jedi does always have access to the force and every Jedi is able to boost his natural physical strength through his force abilities. Hence it doesn't make sense to even attempt to argue if something was done with aid of the force or without it if the action being discussed was performed by a Jedi Knight or a Sith Lord.

Still: Pushing your fingers through the skull of some alien, lift it up and use it as puppet is impressive force aided or not. And Kun pretty much looks muscle-packed to me in most of the comics which is a description that doesn't really fit Anakin. [/B]

Muscle packed, no, but he did look bigger than Anakin. Still, Anakin did have a metallic hand and all but that coud only take him so far.

You mean this doesn't look muscle packed?

Versus Anakin?

That seems pretty conclusive to me. Even without Force aid, Kun is clearly a bigger guy.

Well yea Kun is 6'3, Anakin is like 5"10. Yea Kun looks more muscular but I always thought he was wearing his light armor on his chest.

Wow Janus saying Anakin will lose. How surprising

Originally posted by playa1258
Wow Janus saying Anakin will lose. How surprising

Thanks for your lovely input. Either offer an argument or shut up.

it's kind of a false conclusion that anikin was smaller just because you put a huge picture of kun and then show a small one of anikin...in real life (where vader was in the suit) he was alot bigger so you prove nothing by showing that...other than how much you like that picture of anikin you sicko! lol.

No, there is no doubt the Exar Kun is bigger. I don't know why that fact slipped my mind.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I understand that but I didn't know if we were arguing natural physical strength or force aided strength..

I think you didn't get it yet. We were talking about two characters with force abilities. Hence "force aided strength" is equal to "natural strength" in this case.

Muscle packed, no, but he did look bigger than Anakin. Still, Anakin did have a metallic hand and all but that coud only take him so far.

Erm...WTF ? Did you read the comics ? With exception the last DLotS issue and some artistic picture Kun actually looks like a freaking bodybuilder.

Edit: Narf. Started posting before Janus posted the picture and then I was interrupted. And yes DS. He was possibly wearing his armor on his chest but look at his arms / legs...

Personally, I've never heard of a Jedi who was out of shape at all.

I doubt the difference in physical strength between the two would be of any significance