Here's some of the scans that i was using to arrive at my estimate:
First encounter with Byakuya:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/bleach055-16.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/bleach055-17.jpg
Renji stating that in the human world they are limited to 1/5 of their abilities:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/manga-rainbleach-ch095-17.png
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/manga-rainbleach-ch095-18.png
Originally posted by Warmonger1. And it still makes no difference even if he can(which he can't), Itachi is strong, but he can't solo the whole team, most of his teamates are already dead.
!. Pure Thoery. None of thier Illusions might work but right now we jsut got opinions on that. Considering that Itachi can see through pretyt much any kind of illsuion and even into the soul (I don't know about all that other stuff but it does allow you to look into the soul) I think he won't fall for it. The rest of Akatsuki might be boned though. Unless Itachi kills Aizen frst.2. Actually he can trap several in a water bubble by using his water clone Jutsu just like when he fought team Guy.
3. Longer weapon yes, faster no. Hidan can fight forever though and where as whitey has to hit him with his main attack for that to work. Hidan only has to nick him.
4. Yet Ganju's spear sends him flying. Theat fruity spirit detective guy was able to block a hollow attack as well. He aint superhuman. Also I'm not talking about ichigo I'm talking about all those nameless Shinigami that run around SS. They never do anything remotely superhuman. No it isn't. Anything that Byakuya could do with his sand Gaara could do with his Sand and Rock lee was able to dodge it. Chiyo was able to make both her and Sakura dodge wave after wave of Sasori's needles which was more numerous than Byauya's flower petals.
5. Yeah I saw the fight I have ti on my hard drive. So waht you call Ichigo using his wepaon's power a Plot Device. HE grew stronger yes but that was after getitn cut down. Yet he didn't cut Ichigo in half before he got his power-up. In fact his power-up didn't seem to affect his ability to cut him at all. So cutting a buidling in half still only gets you so far if it doesn't work on person.
6. Thats not PIS thats CIS. He wasn't puncked so much as he didn't use his full abilites until he had a reason to. So he was just acting in character and paid for it. Which is why I was metnioning Naruto vs Neji as someone getting doped by somethig they should have but they le ttheir guard down.
7. I didnt' say they were all Genin but Chunin is not a big deal in Naruto. Also Iruka was able to perform the same feats. Crossing the the whole country thing, I don't rember vouching for that. I simply indicated their abiltiy to move far with a sinlge movemnt.
2. That's an exception, and are you implying that a 1/10 power Kisame will be able to even do this?
3. Longer weapon, by like 3-5 feet, yes. Faster, hell yes. Hidan is slow(compared to rest of Akatsuki), why can't you accept that? If Whitey stabbed him, Hidan could not get his scythe to reach Whitey. Also, If Hidan has his arm lobbed off, he can't wield the scythe, and Kakuzu will be too busy getting murked to do anything.
4. Ganju has a spear? Didn't know that. Also, Ganju clearly is not a normal human, he can manipulate sand to a degree, and he has phenomenal stamina. So, are you saying normal humans can also block a strike 30 foot monster trying to eat you? Ichigo after first becoming a Shinigami's power was about the equivelant of a nameless Shinigami most of the time(as stated by Ulquiorra his power fluctuates). Byakuya does not have sand dude, and that Fruity guy is only a 5th seat, it's not like he's anywhere near the dudes in this fight in power. Needles are much smaller than 300 3-4 foot swords which Byakuya completely controls, and I can't remember that part of the fight, someone post a scan.
5.Kenny didn't cut him once, he stabbed him, both times.😐
6. PIS, CIS, it's the same damn thing. Point is he could have easily beat Ichigo even with his sword powerup thing, but didn't because then the series would end.
7. Iruka is also a Chunin.😐 They can move far very quickly, true, but Bleach is on a whole other level.
Oh, and Kenny is a better swordsman than Kisame.
Ichigo is caught by Senbonzakura even though his earlier speed was able to match Byakuya.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/161-14.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/161-15.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/161-16.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/161-17.jpg
After he hits bankai he's able to move and put his sword at Byakuya's throat before he can react.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/162-17.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/162-18.jpg
easily dodging Senbonzakura even though Byakuya double's it's speed.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-08.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-09.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-10.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-12.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-13.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-14.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/163-15.jpg
Originally posted by Akuki
After he hits bankai he's able to move and put his sword at Byakuya's throat before he can react.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/hitokiri7303/162-17.jpg
The average human reacts at 0.5 seconds. So, ichigo can move what seems to be 8-10 meters in less then that.
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
The average human reacts at 0.5 seconds. So, ichigo can move what seems to be 8-10 meters in less then that.
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
The average human reacts at 0.5 seconds. So, ichigo can move what seems to be 8-10 meters in less then that.
that would put him at around 20 m/s. for comparison the speed of sound is 330m/s and an average bullet goes 800 m/s. theres sumthin wrong here, that speed is TOO low.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
that would put him at around 20 m/s. for comparison the speed of sound is 330m/s and an average bullet goes 800 m/s. theres sumthin wrong here, that speed is TOO low.
Originally posted by leonheartmmDisprove it. You can't, can you? Exactly, Bleach characters are much stronger than Naruto characters.
the last 2 is disproven bias.currently naruto characters are far surpassing bleach characters in all aspects. perhaps near the end of bleach, the characters will regain their above narto place but currently theyd lose BADLY.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Disprove it. You can't, can you? Exactly, Bleach characters are much stronger than Naruto characters.
dont draw conclusions based on assumptions. i already did, comparing chakra vs reitsu and both affects in super human prowess and destructive power/illusionary/mystical affect by providing feats. you were not quoting feats there, just making over generalised statements about power level.
really, for a guy who questions my credibility as a poster, you ought to work a little more on providing evidence and analysing the argument. bleash characters AS THEY STAND wont last 2 minutes against naruto characters.
Originally posted by leonheartmmI have been disproving you and Warmongerer since this started. I can't provide evidence on sumthin nonspecific, you want me to just provide evidence on why Bleach>Naruto? Okay, Kenny with his massive Reitsu cut a builtding in half casually, took Ichigo's Zanpakuto head on, Shunsui or whatever his name is instantly went miles in one leap, Aizen blocked the punch of a VERY large Hollow with one hand, then disintigrated him with a Kido that he didn't even say the incantation to, Byakuya's Bankai has hundreds of 3-4 foot blades flying around him that he controls completely, and STILL couldn't hit Bankai Ichigo. I could go on, but I'll wait for your pathetic case to crush it. And no I can't provide scans as I don't know how.
dont draw conclusions based on assumptions. i already did, comparing chakra vs reitsu and both affects in super human prowess and destructive power/illusionary/mystical affect by providing feats. you were not quoting feats there, just making over generalised statements about power level.really, for a guy who questions my credibility as a poster, you ought to work a little more on providing evidence and analysing the argument. bleash characters AS THEY STAND wont last 2 minutes against naruto characters.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
plus the argument is based in negetive evidence. a classical logical fallacy. the burden of evidence is on you to prove{which u havent} not me to disprove. your statement holds no value if it hasnt already been established{and the OPPOSITE has been established already}
But he's given you legitimate feats that happened in the Bleach cannon. (not that filler crap). And you're the one saying that Bleach characters don't stand a chance as they are now. Without giving feats. So, really,the burden of proof is on you to explain WHY. Because,again, some of the stuff they do in Bleach TEAR up whatever they do in Naruto. I've seen both series, and Bleach has upper tier characters in strength and speed. No matter how adamantly you deny it, that's just how it is.
When just about everyone else in the thread agrees, don't you think there's SOME reason why?
I have been disproving you and Warmongerer since this started.
I can't provide evidence on sumthin nonspecific,
you want me to just provide evidence on why Bleach>Naruto? Okay, Kenny with his massive Reitsu cut a builtding in half casually, took Ichigo's Zanpakuto head on, Shunsui or whatever his name is instantly went miles in one leap, Aizen blocked the punch of a VERY large Hollow with one hand, then disintigrated him with a Kido that he didn't even say the incantation to, Byakuya's Bankai has hundreds of 3-4 foot blades flying around him that he controls completely, and STILL couldn't hit Bankai Ichigo. I could go on, but I'll wait for your pathetic case to crush it. And no I can't provide scans as I don't know how.
naruto cut a giant ciff face which stretched towards both horizons, utterly while trying out the unharnessed power of his wind element for the first time, diadara created a blast which{minus thedestructive area around it} was as large as a village and that was just his smallest c-3 explosion. you cant substantiate he went the distance you claim and cant substantiate that it was infact in a measureable timeframe. on the other hand zabuza/lee/sasuke etc have much better speed feats than that. look at the aizen vs itachi thread. and those are pre shippuden feats. the akatsuki have taken chakra attacks from MUCH larger and MUCH more powerful bijuu without breakin a sweat. and defeated and trapped them with reletive ease. yondaime kazekage had many times more/larger and more powerful iron sand blands tipped with poison which need not even do damage to kill you and sakura avoided all while being surrounded by a mesh of them. and lets not forget, naruto can create THOUSANDS of clone with his weaker jutsus and that can more than counyter anything the full brunt of byakuya's bankai can dish out.
just a word of advice, stop personally attacking people with phrases like pathetic and whatnt which are unwarranted as i didnt attack you. plus it does nuthing good for your dredibility to use offence for no reaosn. if you cant provide scans than go look at the page in question. youll see that mu argument about being unable to compare speeds still holds. there is no reference point in the manga to compare such things. akuki found one with the whole faster than the blink of an eye[which we DO have a time frame for] thing but the argument was undermined by going from one assumption to another.
Originally posted by Haruhi
But he's given you legitimate feats that happened in the Bleach cannon. (not that filler crap). And you're the one saying that Bleach characters don't stand a chance as they are now. Without giving feats. So, really,the burden of proof is on you to explain WHY. Because,again, some of the stuff they do in Bleach TEAR up whatever they do in Naruto. I've seen both series, and Bleach has upper tier characters in strength and speed. No matter how adamantly you deny it, that's just how it is.When just about everyone else in the thread agrees, don't you think there's SOME reason why?
same thing again. replying to posts that have nuthing to do with you or your previous posts. its becoming a norm with you.
he didnt give legitemate feats. statements like
Yeah, I didn't wanna say it, but Kenny could probably beat them all just by being in their presence{but i wudnt care to explain HOW}, with the patch off, it's no comparison.
have no feats or evidence. and obviously your not familiar with logical analysis so dont even try. the brunt of such arguments stand on since X is true because i assume it is{giving no evidence for its validity}, then based on X, Y shud also be true. and X is true{without having any evidence for it} until it is DISPROVEN.
the quoted statment is an assumption and it is upto the POSTER to give evidence to substantiate it and not ME to disprove it when it hasnt been proven or hinted at outside the posters personal oppinions{not based in evidence} to begin with.
naruto characters currently have higher feats. the reason 3 or 4{which really is the entire number of active people on bleach threads} people choose to defend bleach is because they think its cooler than naruto and the word SHINIGAMI inspires some kind of fanboy attraction which makes people think they are super powerful. plus the fact that aizen is more traditionally badass than naruto characters. they forget that badass does not equal power.
agains its a similar thing you find with alucard fanboys. who just based on his BADASS attitude, believe he is one of the strongest manga characters and would beat the likes of surfer and thor whne he isnt even on class 70 strength level.
