Deadshot v.s. Captain America

Originally posted by namorsubby
No. But then again, DB, you continue to obsess on the bullet, while completely ignoring the creditials of the shooter. Floyd's timing, sight, accuracy, and own reflexes/reaction time has allowed him to hit much faster opponents than Steve with bullets. Do you want me to sit here and name how many Floyd has hit with bullets or another projectile that have been shown on-panel reacting to and evading them? They react to bullets. Floyd reacts to/follows their movements, times his shots, and lands them. He's hit and killed a super-speedster in mid-stride with a bullet after deflecting projectiles she had thrown with gunfire. He locked on to another super-speedster in mid-blitz whom he was literal inches away from, putting his gun to his chin before the guy could go through with his super-fast attack. He attributes showing like these to his sight and timing.

I don't know what it is. Either you must admit to ignoring those showings or not acknowledging them as invalid due to your apparent stance that no one can be hit with bullets that have the neccesary speed to react to and evade them. What's apparent to me is that Cap, and others who have this ability have been tagged before with bullets and other projectiles, but you seem to think that Steve could never be unless he was somehow distracted, etc according to your posts. Weird.

Originally posted by darthgoober
If the character in question can legitimately react to/dodge bullets then DS hitting them is PIS,

I have to say I disagree with that somewhat.

Punisher shoots a speedster.

Originally posted by Deadline
I have to say I disagree with that somewhat.

Punisher shoots a speedster.

Originally posted by darthgoober
But anytime one of them would be able to stand there and just watch the bullet approach there's really no excusing it.

If they're that first yes I agree, but when Cap says he can see bullets that doesn't mean he has all day to dodge them. It could be compared to us watching a tennis match.

Anyway looks like we agree really.

Originally posted by Deadline
If they're that first yes I agree, but when Cap says he can see bullets that doesn't mean he has all day to dodge them. It could be compared to us watching a tennis match.

Anyway looks like we agree really.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh I don't think he could count to ten or anything like that while he was waiting on them to reach him, but he's taken deliberate responsive actions after bullets have been fired too many times for me to think they're in anyway difficult for him to dodge when he's written in top form. I mean it'd be one thing if he just jerked himself out of the way, but if he can turn around to block shots after hearing them fired...

Ok but you can imagine how a highly skillful gunman could shoot Cap or give him a hard time?

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok but you can imagine how a highly skillful gunman could shoot Cap or give him a hard time?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Deathstroke's been tagged by bullets, Spiderman's been tagged by bullets, Quicksilver's been tagged by bullets, Hell Flash has been tagged by bullets. If the character in question can legitimately react to/dodge bullets then DS hitting them is PIS, nothing more. Why? Because unless the bullets being controlled while it's in flight the moment it leaves the gun it's no longer up to DS whether or not the bullet hits it's target. If all he's doing is aiming at a particular point in space all bullet dodgers should have to do is move somewhere else. He may very well be able to do some kind of ricochette set up and hit them from behind, but his exceptional aim doesn't cap the speed his opponents operate at.

If it was as cut and dry as you're making it, then Deadshot would be virtually obselete as an opponent to anyone, seeing as nearly everyone dodges bullets these days. I honestly think there's much more to consider than the one aspect you are set on. Floyd has referenced his sight and timing before as reason for doing those things I mentioned. Floyd's own reflexes, along the time and area in which he places a shot should be considered. Just because someone possesses the neccesary speed to evade something, doesn't mean they could never be hit by it. I could probably always move out of the way of someone throwing a paper ball at a certain speed if I'm ready for it. But let's say that the person sends several after one another in my relative area(like multiple gunfire), timing his throwing based on the movement of my reaction to the projectiles, or even placing them where he thinks I'll be next. I'll almost certainly be hit.

If you don't believe that someone who can dodge bullets could ever be hit by them due to other variables, then you're pretty much discrediting Floyd and his showings altogether.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It would depend on a lot of factors, but sure.

For me its usually two things. You can technically make the bullet travel faster in the sense that you would pull the trigger faster, and if you know where they're going to be they can't dodge the bullet because they could literially walk into it.

Originally posted by namorsubby
If it was as cut and dry as you're making it, then Deadshot would be virtually obselete as an opponent to anyone, seeing as nearly everyone dodges bullets these days. I honestly think there's much more to consider than the one aspect you are set on. Floyd has referenced his sight and timing before as reason for doing those things I mentioned. Floyd's own reflexes, along the time and area in which he places a shot should be considered. Just because someone possesses the neccesary speed to evade something, doesn't mean they could never be hit by it. I could probably always move out of the way of someone throwing a paper ball at a certain speed if I'm ready for it. But let's say that the person sends several after one another in my relative area(like multiple gunfire), timing his throwing based on the movement of my reaction to the projectiles, or even placing them where he thinks I'll be next. I'll almost certainly be hit.

If you don't believe that someone who can dodge bullets could ever be hit by them due to other variables, then you're pretty much discrediting Floyd and his showings altogether.

And I know that Cap being fast enough to dodge bullets doesn't mean it's impossible to shoot him, but his being fast enough to dodge them, having a shield and the ability to block them, and having armor that can stop them means that it's pretty freakin tough to take Cap out with a gun in a forum fight. That's something that you don't seem to be getting, it's not just Cap's speed that DS has to deal with.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's something that you don't seem to be getting, it's not just Cap's speed that DS has to deal with.

Cap has a big shield! durhulk

Originally posted by darthgoober
Reletavely few street characters actually dodge bullets, most of them just dodge the shooters aim. And against a character like DS or Bullseye an aim dodger is screwed.

And I know that Cap being fast enough to dodge bullets doesn't mean it's impossible to shoot him, but his being fast enough to dodge them, having a shield and the ability to block them, and armor that can stop them, means that it's pretty freakin tough to take Cap out with a gun in a forum fight. That's something that you don't seem to be getting, it's not just Cap's speed that DS has to deal with.

He's hit faster. He's penetrated many an armor with his bullets(which can be substituted for fire, explosives, etc), and Cap's armor isn't even always bulletproof or completely bulletproof. I know cap has a shield, but does it matter when he's already faced characters fast enough to deflect gunfire with swords, or move faster than gunfire? I don't think it does.

Cap and Deadshot start this match in a featureless environment 500 meters away from each other. If you don't think he could tag cap in a scenario like this then you haven't considered his feats. I honestly don't think you ever did, really, but more or less are just coming to your conclusion based on Cap and his attributes which you've mentioned without ever addressing anything else.

Originally posted by namorsubby
He's hit faster. He's penetrated many an armor with his bullets(which can be substituted for fire, explosives, etc), and Cap's armor isn't even always bulletproof or completely bulletproof. I know cap has a shield, but does it matter when he's already faced characters fast enough to deflect gunfire with swords, or move faster than gunfire? I don't think it does.

Cap and Deadshot start this match in a featureless environment 500 meters away from each other. If you don't think he could tag cap in a scenario like this then you haven't considered his his feats. I honestly don't think you ever did, really, but more or less are just coming to your conclusion based on Cap and his attributes which you've mentioned without ever addressing anything else.

He didn't hit DS, DS doesn't have a shield. I'm referring to villains united.

Originally posted by Deadline
He didn't hit DS, DS doesn't have a shield. I'm referring to villains united.

Originally posted by namorsubby
They had a shoutout in that series in which he hit Slade several times with bullets and was hit several times himself in return. So, yeah, he did in Villians united.

It was a stand-off. Prior to that when Deadshot tried to shot DS and DS was attempting to dodge Deadshot missed. 😐

They both got fed up and decided to have a Mexican stand-off. Thats why Lawton asked DS wether he still had his HF they were going to shoot at each other and stand their ground.

Originally posted by Deadline
It was a stand-off. Prior to that when Deadshot tried to shot DS and DS was attempting to dodge Deadshot missed. 😐

They both got fed up and decided to have a Mexican stand-off. Thats why Lawton asked DS wether he still had his HF they were going to shoot at each other and stand their ground.

You forgot to mention that they were both trying to shoot each. Slade missed too. All that happened before they both came out for a showdown is they shot at one another while jumping for cover. That's like 2 seconds. Deadshot gets a look a Cap 500 meters away right in his line of sight at the beginning of this match. Cap has the misfortune of trying to avoid or block every bullet on his way to attack. The 2 scenarios are completely different. This one is in Floyd's favor.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Villains United #6, I know.

You forgot to mentioned that they were both trying to shoot each. Slade missed too.

Irrelevent the point is in the stand-off at the end they were not attempting to dodge. When Deadshot tried to shot DS he missed. We are trying to determine wether Cap can dodge bullets not Lawton.

Originally posted by namorsubby

All that happened before they both came out for a showdown is they shot at one another while jumping for cover. That's like 2 seconds.

Completely incorrect it was alot more than 2 seconds. If it was 2 seconds they both wouldn't have got fed up. They both got fed up because they were both tired of playing cat and mouse, so they decided to end it.

Originally posted by namorsubby
He's hit faster. He's penetrated many an armor with his bullets(which can be substituted for fire, explosives, etc), and Cap's armor isn't even always bulletproof. I know cap has a shield, but does it matter when he's already faced characters fast enough to deflect gunfire with swords, or move faster than gunfire? I don't think it does.

Cap and Deadshot start this match in a featureless environment 500 meters away from each other. I you don't think he could tag cap in a scenario like this then you haven't considered his his feats. I honestly don't think you ever did, really, but more or less are just coming to your conclusion based on Cap and his attributes which you've mentioned without ever addressing anything else.

I think the 500 meters gives Cap LOTS of time to dodge/block the bullets and that the featureless enviornment means that there's nothing for DS to "trick shot" off of so he won't even be able to catch Cap by suprise... so basically DS has NO advantage in the opening seconds. I know that Cap is fast enough to block DS's shots with his shield or even get out of the way completely, and I know his armor's pretty much bulletproof so there's little chance of Cap being taken down with gunfire in a forum fight. And if you don't think Cap can take DS in a scenereo like this then you haven't considered his feats.

Originally posted by Deadline
Irrelevent the point is in the stand-off at the end they were not attempting to dodge. When Deadshot tried to shot DS he missed.

Completely incorrect it was alot more than 2 seconds. If it was 2 seconds they both wouldn't have got fed up. They both got fed up because they were both tired of playing cat and mouse, so they decided to end it.

1. He has tried and succeeded before.

2. lol, do you think I don't know about their encounter or something?Here's what consists of all the shooting that took place before the stand-off. I think I actually overstated it by saying 2 seconds

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/deadshot/Untitled-Scanned-18.jpg

They both shoot while jumping for cover. That's it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok first of all, the characters function at peak capacity so his armor's always pretty much bulletproof on the forum. Second, yes it matters when Cap's shield normally covers most of his torso but can damn near cover his whole body. Third, as I said before if he's shooting legitimate bullet dodgers without extenuating circumstances it's PIS, nothing more. His aim doesn't make them slower.

I think the 500 meters gives Cap LOTS of time to dodge/block the bullets and that the featureless enviornment means that there's nothing for DS to "trick shot" off of so he won't even be able to catch Cap by suprise... so basically DS has NO advantage in the opening seconds. I know that Cap is fast enough to block DS's shots with his shield or even get out of the way completely, and I know his armor's pretty much bulletproof so there's little chance of Cap being taken down with gunfire in a forum fight. And if you don't think Cap can take DS in a scenereo like this then you haven't considered his feats.

Like I said, you're calling anytime Floyd has ever hit a bullet-dodger PIS because you believe that the only thing that matters is if they're fast enough to react, which is discounting his feats altogether.

Like I said, his bullets penetrate armor and he has the options of explosives or fire, etc. I've also mention that a shield isn't a big advantage if Deadshot has already tagged those fast enough to deflect gunfire with much smaller objects or that can move faster than gunfire itself. You're not considering anything he's done, just restating the same three points, which are irrelevant according to Floyd's feats

Speed/reflexes to dodge bullets doesn't mean much to a character who has already overcome that in showings several times. Almost bulletproof, inconsistent armor means even less when he has bullets to penetrate it and can switch to bullets which can destroy a manhunter.