rock lee and neji vs zabuza and haku

Originally posted by yungz22
name 1 time it was actually fooled in canon other than kidumaro who didnt even didnt fool it he just figured out his weakness.
and fail to take account two the 2 times zabuza's sword was blocked by just a mere hand kakashi and tobi so im pretty sure lee could do the same and if notlee wouldnt even be hit by that sword anyway because he is too fast for that

Originally posted by yungz22
name 1 time it was actually fooled in canon other than kidumaro who didnt even didnt fool it he just figured out his weakness.
and fail to take account two the 2 times zabuza's sword was blocked by just a mere hand kakashi and tobi so im pretty sure lee could do the same and if notlee wouldnt even be hit by that sword anyway because he is too fast for that

And just because Kakashi can do something doesn't mean Lee can. And Suigetsu isn't Zabuza. Couldn't he barely even lift the sword when he took it from Zabuza's grave?

edit - Lee isn't to fast at all. Lee's fast for a genin not for a Jonin. Zabuza was one of the seven strongest people from the Mist, Kakashi had to use the sharingan to fight him, he's more ruthless, he's a better fighter, and Lee's easily read. How will Lee do anything except die?

Originally posted by big juggy man

He only used that because Kakashi has Sharingan.Again let me repeat IF ZABUZA WOULD OF KILLED KAKASHI,SASUKE AND NARUTO THE SHOW WOULD BE OVER...THERE WAS NO WAY ZABUZA OR HAKU WAS GOING TO WIN THAT FIGHT.ZABUZA COULD OF EASILY MADE MORE WATER OR SHADOW CLONES WHEN HE HAD KAKASHI TRAPPED IN THE WATER PRISON..HE COULD OF HAD SOME HELP HIM KILL KAKASHI AND HAD THE OTHERS KEEP SAKURA,SASUKE AND NARUTO FROM INTERFERRING BUT AGAIN IF THIS WOULD OF HAPPENED THE SHOW WOULD OF BEEN OVER RIGHT THERE.

Yes. You kept saying that over and over again and I keep on ignoring it because that logic fails. You say that because those people were the lead character in the series. The only way they had won the fight was because they were destined to. And not that the writer wrote them to be more powerful. Your not making a point at all. I would be embarrass if I had made that argument.

Originally posted by big juggy man

IF ROCK LEE WAS SO SKILLED THEN WHY IS HE STILL A CHUNNIN?EVEN AFTER THE 3 YEAR TIME SKIP HE IS STILL A CHUNNIN.APPARENTLY HE ISNT REALLY THAT SKILLED IS HE? NEJI IS A JONIN BUT A LOW LEVEL ONE ACCORDING TO THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE NARUTO. HIS OFFICIAL STATS STILL PALE IN COMPARISON TO ZABUZA THE FIRST REAL VILLIAN IN THE SHOW.

It's because to become a Jounin you have to had mastered at least two different elemental Ninjutsu. Lee knows zilch about Ninjutsu that is why he is a Chuunin and forever will be unless the writer will prove another point otherwise.

Originally posted by big juggy man

THE ONLY PERSON YOU SEEN ZABUZA FIGHT AGAINST WAS KAKASHI A ELITE LEVEL JONIN. ROCK LEE WAS ALMOST KILLED BY GAARA A CHUNNIN AT THE POINT WITH NO SPEED.POWER.TAIJUTSU.OR GENJUTSU. THIS IS KIND OF FUNNY BECAUSE EVEN THE CHUNNIN AND GENNIN ON THE SHOW ADMIT THEY ARE NO MATCH FOR A JONIN BUT SOME HOW YOU PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE.

Yes Ninja Title's are something but it will not be a definite reason for a win.

Hidan an S-Rank was defeated by a Chuunin.
Kazuku also an S-Rank was defeated by a Genin.
Deidara an S-Rank defeated a Kazekage.
Deidara was defeated by a Genin Missing-Nin.

PS: Check your Keyboard I think your Caps Lock broken...

Originally posted by dant3g0
Yes. You kept saying that over and over again and I keep on ignoring it because that logic fails. You say that because those people were the lead character in the series. The only way they had won the fight was because they were destined to. And not that the writer wrote them to be more powerful. Your not making a point at all. I would be embarrass if I had made that argument..

Yes Ninja Title's are something but it will not be a definite reason for a win.

Hidan an S-Rank was defeated by a Chuunin.
Kazuku also an S-Rank was defeated by a Genin.
Deidara an S-Rank defeated a Kazekage.
Deidara was defeated by a Genin Missing-Nin.

PS: Check your Keyboard I think your Caps Lock broken...

S-Ranked could equal Kage ranked

Sasuke was above Gennin when he defeated Deidara not to mention he had mastered the Sharingan.

Shikamaru is a genius which is why he defeated Hidan

Neji doesn't have the sharingan he has a lesser kekkai genkai.

Rock Lee is a idiot.

Yes. You kept saying that over and over again and I keep on ignoring it because that logic fails. You say that because those people were the lead character in the series. The only way they had won the fight was because they were destined to. And not that the writer wrote them to be more powerful. Your not making a point at all. I would be embarrass if I had made that argument.

I would be emarassed if i was a moron like you who couldnt grasp logic. The name of the show is Naruto so how in the hell is he goin to die in his first real battle? My mom never watched Naruto but i am sure she could grasp that. The writers had Sakura say Haku was more powerful than Kakashi and Kakashi said himself Haku was more skilled than he was .I think the writers on the show would know more about their characters than some jack azz in a forum. The people who write the official ninja stats have Haku,Zabuza,Kakashi and Rock Lee speed at 8 out of 10..are you a writer on Naruto? Zabuza's taijutsu is a 9 out of 10 Kakashi is a 8 out of 10 and Rock Lee is either a 7 or 8 out of 10 and Neji was even lower during the time Zabuza was alive. I believe a 9 is a bigger number than a 8 or a 7 and if you can't realize than then again I feel sorry for you.

This isn't a american comics forum but let me make a quick point. Is Spiderman dead?Nope he is not but he has fought people like Juggernaut a guy who is just as strong as the Hulk or Thor yet he always manages to avoid being killed. Why is that? Because the writers don't want to kill of their most popular character especially in their on books. Are you telling me Spiderman is more powerful than Juggernaut? Are you telling me Batman is more powerful than let us say Bizzaro Superman? Hell no the writers can write how they feel...they can say one character is weak and then have then beat a character they say is strong. But this is a forum where we are speculating on battles that never happened or happened by we would like to see again.

You childish insults dont bother me but if all i could do is try to insult somebody who is superior to you then I feel sorry for you. How about you try making points instead of just saying one character is cool and that is the reason they would win...how about you try that and when you can make some points or state some facts then don't post to me.

Well there is some point in what he's saying. Sasuke would have been dead if he hadn't been a main character. Same goes for Naruto but Haku wasn't going all out and was to kind to actually kill them. Then it would have been Haku and Zabuza vs Kakashi and Kakashi had his hands full with just Zabuza up until the mist vanished and Zabuza was once against owned by the sharingan.

Exactly if the show was called Haku then he would of live and Naruto would of died. Kakashi even said during the fight that Naruto and Sasuke were no match for Haku and Haku wasn't even going all out for the kill. After the fight was over Sasuke said he knew from the begging that Haku was trying to avoid killing him.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Yes Ninja Title's are something but it will not be a definite reason for a win.

Hidan an S-Rank was defeated by a Chuunin.
Kazuku also an S-Rank was defeated by a Genin.
Deidara an S-Rank defeated a Kazekage.
Deidara was defeated by a Genin Missing-Nin.

PS: Check your Keyboard I think your Caps Lock broken...

S-Ranked could equal Kage ranked

Sasuke was above Gennin when he defeated Deidara not to mention he had mastered the Sharingan.

Shikamaru is a genius which is why he defeated Hidan

Neji doesn't have the sharingan he has a lesser kekkai genkai.

Rock Lee is a idiot.

Yes. You kept saying that over and over again and I keep on ignoring it because that logic fails. You say that because those people were the lead character in the series. The only way they had won the fight was because they were destined to. And not that the writer wrote them to be more powerful. Your not making a point at all. I would be embarrass if I had made that argument.

I would be emarassed if i was a moron like you who couldnt grasp logic. The name of the show is Naruto so how in the hell is he goin to die in his first real battle? My mom never watched Naruto but i am sure she could grasp that. The writers had Sakura say Haku was more powerful than Kakashi and Kakashi said himself Haku was more skilled than he was .I think the writers on the show would know more about their characters than some jack azz in a forum. The people who write the official ninja stats have Haku,Zabuza,Kakashi and Rock Lee speed at 8 out of 10..are you a writer on Naruto? Zabuza's taijutsu is a 9 out of 10 Kakashi is a 8 out of 10 and Rock Lee is either a 7 or 8 out of 10 and Neji was even lower during the time Zabuza was alive. I believe a 9 is a bigger number than a 8 or a 7 and if you can't realize than then again I feel sorry for you.

This isn't a american comics forum but let me make a quick point. Is Spiderman dead?Nope he is not but he has fought people like Juggernaut a guy who is just as strong as the Hulk or Thor yet he always manages to avoid being killed. Why is that? Because the writers don't want to kill of their most popular character especially in their on books. Are you telling me Spiderman is more powerful than Juggernaut? Are you telling me Batman is more powerful than let us say Bizzaro Superman? Hell no the writers can write how they feel...they can say one character is weak and then have then beat a character they say is strong. But this is a forum where we are speculating on battles that never happened or happened by we would like to see again.

You childish insults dont bother me but if all i could do is try to insult somebody who is superior to you then I feel sorry for you. How about you try making points instead of just saying one character is cool and that is the reason they would win...how about you try that and when you can make some points or state some facts then don't post to me.

ok now your talking about marvel and dc characters main characters arent killed your right none of us here feel spiderman is stronger than the juggernaut or hulk because he has been beaten by them several times.

Originally posted by Kento
Jirobu, Naruto (though he wasn't being looked for), and Tobi. Neji couldn't find Jirobu when he disappeared, and Hinata couldn't find Tobi when he disappeared. Heck Kiba was able to easily find Tobi first and Hinata is suppose to be able to see everywhere. Same with Neji. There really isn't any other times cause the Byakugan users are hardly ever used.

And just because Kakashi can do something doesn't mean Lee can. And Suigetsu isn't Zabuza. Couldn't he barely even lift the sword when he took it from Zabuza's grave?

edit - Lee isn't to fast at all. Lee's fast for a genin not for a Jonin. Zabuza was one of the seven strongest people from the Mist, Kakashi had to use the sharingan to fight him, he's more ruthless, he's a better fighter, and Lee's easily read. How will Lee do anything except die?

for jirobu neji was focusing in front of him no behind him, and hinata isnt as good as neji is with the byakugan

only person who said lee was easily read was kimmimaro and he was a master in taijutsu and even with his predictable fighting style he still put up way longer zabuza would if he were to fight kimmimaro
and in all the ninja fights taijutsu is usually used first and lee would kill zabuza in that weights off or drunken

Originally posted by yungz22
for jirobu neji was focusing in front of him no behind him, and hinata isnt as good as neji is with the byakugan

only person who said lee was easily read was kimmimaro and he was a master in taijutsu and even with his predictable fighting style he still put up way longer zabuza would if he were to fight kimmimaro
and in all the ninja fights taijutsu is usually used first and lee would kill zabuza in that weights off or drunken

Lee isn't exactly the greatest in taijutsu. And Zabuza isn't exactly a idiot in taijutsu. In fact he's a master in Taijutsu. He's also got more experience than Kimimaro and Lee. And what makes you think Kimimaro could defeat Zabuza? Zabuza has the ability to hide in the mist. Kimimaro would die before he had a chance to do anything. And Zabuza never started off a fight with taijutsu. When he first started fighting Kakashi he used mist, on the bridge he used mist. What is Lee going to do when he can't see anything but the person fighting him can find him easily? Zabuza's biggest thing is his mix of stealth killing and using mist so nobody can see him. Which is a big advantage when nobody in this fight is as skilled as Kakashi or even as skilled as Zabuza. Lee without weights isn't going to be beating somebody stronger, faster, and more skilled who also would have him fighting blinded. Same with drunk Lee. Lee has no way to get around the mist that Zabuza has always shown to use as the fight starts. And Lee nor Neji are going to be blitzing Zabuza.

Originally posted by Kento
Neji can see in every direction at once...why would he only be focusing in front of him? Specially when a guy has disappeared. And wasn't it dust that allowed Jirobu to disappear while Neji was using Byakugan anyway? And Hinata can't see as far as Neji..but Tobi wasn't exactly far. And she can still see in every direction at once.

Lee isn't exactly the greatest in taijutsu. And Zabuza isn't exactly a idiot in taijutsu. In fact he's a master in Taijutsu. He's also got more experience than Kimimaro and Lee. And what makes you think Kimimaro could defeat Zabuza? Zabuza has the ability to hide in the mist. Kimimaro would die before he had a chance to do anything. And Zabuza never started off a fight with taijutsu. When he first started fighting Kakashi he used mist, on the bridge he used mist. What is Lee going to do when he can't see anything but the person fighting him can find him easily? Zabuza's biggest thing is his mix of stealth killing and using mist so nobody can see him. Which is a big advantage when nobody in this fight is as skilled as Kakashi or even as skilled as Zabuza. Lee without weights isn't going to be beating somebody stronger, faster, and more skilled who also would have him fighting blinded. Same with drunk Lee. Lee has no way to get around the mist that Zabuza has always shown to use as the fight starts. And Lee nor Neji are going to be blitzing Zabuza.

all you talk about is mist then you question if kimmimaro can beat zabuza kimmimaro would destroy zabuza becuase he wont even be hurt by that sword due to his bone density plus hes quick and he has the curse mark...now back to the topic lee's taijustu was only beat by neji and gai only time zabuzas was or looked good was when he did owned sasuke but that was before when team kakashi was extremely weak

Originally posted by yungz22
all you talk about is mist then you question if kimmimaro can beat zabuza kimmimaro would destroy zabuza becuase he wont even be hurt by that sword due to his bone density plus hes quick and he has the curse mark...now back to the topic lee's taijustu was only beat by neji and gai only time zabuzas was or looked good was when he did owned sasuke but that was before when team kakashi was extremely weak

Lee's taijutsu was beaten by Kimimaro, Gai, and Neji. Gai isn't better than Kakashi at taijutsu. They are about the same. Zabuza was taking out Kakashi. Kakashi's sharingan is why he won. Something Lee doesn't have. Kakashi at the beginning didn't get any more powerful by the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and not one of the genin could touch Kakashi. Just because Sasuke and Naruto got stronger and Neji was stronger than them and first, and so was Lee makes Zabuza weak how when he fought Kakashi who is better at everything compared to Lee or Neji? Since the beginning of the series at that,

Originally posted by Kento
When did I ever say Zabuza had to hurt Kimimaro? Zabuza has plenty of things to keep Kimimaro occupied while he dies.

Lee's taijutsu was beaten by Kimimaro, Gai, and Neji. Gai isn't better than Kakashi at taijutsu. They are about the same. Zabuza was taking out Kakashi. Kakashi's sharingan is why he won. Something Lee doesn't have. Kakashi at the beginning didn't get any more powerful by the Sasuke Retrieval Arc and not one of the genin could touch Kakashi. Just because Sasuke and Naruto got stronger and Neji was stronger than them and first, and so was Lee makes Zabuza weak how when he fought Kakashi who is better at everything compared to Lee or Neji? Since the beginning of the series at that,

they dont have to be better than kakashi what they are is better than zabuza both kisame and raiga said zabuza was weak all you have to about zabuza is that the mist will win the fight for him and the byakugan can see through the mist. and fro lee all the mist would do is slow down his reaction time a little but what is that when your already fast as shit because i live near the beach and i can see when its misty outside

Originally posted by yungz22
they dont have to be better than kakashi what they are is better than zabuza both kisame and raiga said zabuza was weak all you have to about zabuza is that the mist will win the fight for him and the byakugan can see through the mist. and fro lee all the mist would do is slow down his reaction time a little but what is that when your already fast as shit because i live near the beach and i can see when its misty outside

Originally posted by Kento
Who is Raiga? And Kisame is a powerhouse of chakra of course he's stronger than Zabuza...Kisame is stronger than Kakashi, and Gai also. As is a lot of the Akatsuki. To be better than Zabuza they would have to be better than Kakashi. Kakashi wouldn't need the sharingan to take out Lee or Neji. They aren't in the same league. Zabuza creates a really dense fog that hides him. That's pretty much shown. Neji can see through object sure..but he's been easily fooled enough times to make me think Zabuza could easily do it also. As for Lee...his reaction time is nothing to Kakashi. Who cares if it's slowed down or not he isn't going to be blitzing or dodging Zabuza. He's not even going to be able to fight because he won't know where anything is. Zabuza has proven he can move through the mist and know where everybody is. Lee would be dead before he knew what hit him. Neji may have a slight chance to see the chakra in him but he isn't going to blitzing anybody either. He's not as fast or as skilled as Zabuza. Kaiten is the only hope he has to survive and that'll drain him of chakra as Zabuza sits back hiding and using long range weapons. If it even comes to that kind of toying before Zabuza kills him also by being much faster.

Raiga is the third mist swordsman and if kakashi needed the sharingan against sakura and naruto he going to need it against neji and lee. And you should stop saying only reason kakashi won is because of his sharingan because it a tool just like zabuzas sword who zabuza without it would be nothing. and if lee was good enough to disarm kisame he could do it against zabuza who we both agree is weaker than kisame

Originally posted by yungz22
Raiga is the third mist swordsman and if kakashi needed the sharingan against sakura and naruto he going to need it against neji and lee. And you should stop saying only reason kakashi won is because of his sharingan because it a tool just like zabuzas sword who zabuza without it would be nothing. and if lee was good enough to disarm kisame he could do it against zabuza who we both agree is weaker than kisame

Originally posted by Kento
Isn't he just a filler charcter? The only other person every mentioned in the manga is the name of Suigetsu's brother. I highly doubt in a serious battle Kakashi would need a sharingan for Sakura, and Naruto. He's a lot more skilled, faster, and while not as powerful as Naruto he's better at everything else. Neither Lee nor Neji are more powerful than Kakashi. The sharingan may be a tool...but it's one that neither Lee nor Neji have. And the reason he beat Zabuza is because of it. Not because he was so much stronger or anything but because of the power of the sharingan. Lee fought a Kisame clone that wasn't even near the power of the real.

So what raiga is still a swordsman of the mist but that clone is still stronger than zabuza, neji and lee use mainly taijutsu if he was fighting both of them at the same time he is going to need the sharingan. If kakashi didnt need the sharingan against sakura and naruto than im pretty sure he would not have used it.

Raiga isn't in the manga..so how does he count when he's from a filler episode? Kakashi said he had to use two hands against Sasuke when he first fought him yet wouldn't you think Kakashi should easily be able to beat Sasuke without even trying if he would have been actually trying to kill him during the time Sasuke graduated. The sharingan probably just made it much easier on him to fight both of them without going overboard. If he wanted to beat them he really shouldn't have any problems but he wasn't. He was just trying to stay away from them. Sharingan reading movements would make it easy to do so. In a life or death fight Sakura nor Naruto are skilled enough to warrant him to actually pull out any of his strongest jutsu. He's smarter, faster, more skilled, and while not stronger than Naruto he's stronger than Sakura. As for Kakashi against Neji and Lee. He may not have it as easy as I think he could do it against Sakura and Naruto (course this is assuming Naruto isn't using a tailed-state) I still think he'd be skilled enough not to have to use the sharingan. He relies on it a lot so he'd use it sure but I don't think he'd need it. Neji is the biggest problem in any fight against Kakashi or Zabuza because of Kaiten but Kakashi should know enough about Neji's fighting style to not have anything to worry about and with 1000 jutsu known he's got to have at least a few long range attacks. His speed is also greater than theirs.

Originally posted by Kento
Raiga isn't in the manga..so how does he count when he's from a filler episode? Kakashi said he had to use two hands against Sasuke when he first fought him yet wouldn't you think Kakashi should easily be able to beat Sasuke without even trying if he would have been actually trying to kill him during the time Sasuke graduated. The sharingan probably just made it much easier on him to fight both of them without going overboard. If he wanted to beat them he really shouldn't have any problems but he wasn't. He was just trying to stay away from them. Sharingan reading movements would make it easy to do so. In a life or death fight Sakura nor Naruto are skilled enough to warrant him to actually pull out any of his strongest jutsu. He's smarter, faster, more skilled, and while not stronger than Naruto he's stronger than Sakura. As for Kakashi against Neji and Lee. He may not have it as easy as I think he could do it against Sakura and Naruto (course this is assuming Naruto isn't using a tailed-state) I still think he'd be skilled enough not to have to use the sharingan. He relies on it a lot so he'd use it sure but I don't think he'd need it. Neji is the biggest problem in any fight against Kakashi or Zabuza because of Kaiten but Kakashi should know enough about Neji's fighting style to not have anything to worry about and with 1000 jutsu known he's got to have at least a few long range attacks. His speed is also greater than theirs.

kakashi is not faster than lee weights off since when have you seen kakashi with that kind of speed and im pretty sure that lee is even faster now that he is older and has such a strict training regimen he train

Originally posted by yungz22
kakashi is not faster than lee weights off since when have you seen kakashi with that kind of speed and im pretty sure that lee is even faster now that he is older and has such a strict training regimen he train

Chunin exam Sasuke was as fast as weightless Lee... do you think Sasuke was faster then Kakashi at this point in the manga?

Kakashi in the Gaiden killed 19 Kage Bunshin with his Chidori that where spred out over a huge distance seemling at the same time he was moving so fast. I would argue he was faster than a weightless Lee even then... he would have been much faster than Lee now.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Chunin exam Sasuke was as fast as weightless Lee... do you think Sasuke was faster then Kakashi at this point in the manga?

Kakashi in the Gaiden killed 19 Kage Bunshin with his Chidori that where spred out over a huge distance seemling at the same time he was moving so fast. I would argue he was faster than a weightless Lee even then... he would have been much faster than Lee now.

kakashi did not kill 19 clones at once that was the 4th hokage.