rock lee and neji vs zabuza and haku

Originally posted by Kento
Like I said Kidomaru was weak...Neji even says he was weaker than Naruto. Kimimaro even points out that Lee's a bad fighter because he's to easy to predict. His speed is the only reason he was so good. Which is probably a good reason Neji can beat him easily since the Byakugan reads people anyway. I think Zabuza being a better fighter with a lot of long range attacks would last easily enough until he died. Haku...his jutsu wouldn't really work but he may be able to stay alive long enough.

@Dark-Jaxx - I thought they were Jonin. Well them being Chunins makes it even worse that they would have beaten them if they hadn't of been weakened.

neji said naruto was the one who would save sasuke from the light not that naruto was stronger

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I'm still waiting for Blax's reply. 🙂

haermm

Originally posted by yungz22
neji said naruto was the one who would save sasuke from the light not that naruto was stronger

Gaara could beat fodder Jonin. His powers are hax

Gaara couldn't even beat Naruto who was still a gennin trying to become a chunnin.If Gaara was so dangerous then why not send Kakashi to stop him?If the sound 4 were dangerous then why send gennin/chunnin to stop them.Why do you think Zabuza Momochi was a Jonin/a ANBU member/7 Swordsman of the mist?Do you believe the Mizukage appointed Zabuza these positions because he was unskilled and chunnin and gennin could beat him?

I seen some guy say Kakashi was toying with Zabuza and once he got serious he beat Zabuza easy?Where here are some direct quotes from their fight to show that Zabuza was the one toying with Kakashi.This also shows Haku could defeat Kakashi too with his kekkei genkai.

Zabuza : The Sharingan again?Such a unimaginative guy!

Kakashi : You might call me "an unimaginative guy". but you are afraid of the Sharingan after all....Zabuza!

Zabuza :The secret technique of a Shinobi...isn't something that you show your opponent so many times.

Kakashi: Be appreciative.You're the only man who had the chance to see it twice...And there will be no third time.

Zabuza: Even if you were able to defeate me,you can't defeat Haku...

Sakura:What?Kakashi Sensei can't win?

Zabuza explains how he found Haku and how he trained him.Then he explains how he knows about the Sharingan.

Kakashi: Zabuza...We're both busy people.I know it's against your style,But i think it's about time we stopped playing around.Why don' we settle this once and for all wtih the next move?

Zabuza:Interesting.What can you possibly do in this situation?
Kakashi ,go ahead.Show me. (How would Zabuza know Kakashi had tracking dogs?If he did I doubt he would of put his sword back on his back)

This shows that the only reason Sasuke eventually began to see Haku was because he was losing chakra.

Sasuke: Just because i can the trail,doesn't mean I can keep up with his speed.

Sasuke:It's likely that there's a limit to that guy's Chakra too!I can feel him slowing down.

Haku: Those eyes..I can't be...Sharingan...You are...

Sasuke: Only a little but I was able to see!

Haku: So,you also have the power of Kekkei Genkai...What a kid...It's not perfect yet, but to think that in the middle of a battle he was able to rouse this power...I that's the case.I can't fight him too long...This Jutsu uses alot of Chakra. There are also limits to retaining the teleportation speed.

Man I wish i knew how to put pictures from the manga to show this instead of just typing it. But this shows Haku wasn't afraid because Sasuke had the Sharingan just suprised and it also shows Sasuke could only see him because he was getting fatigued.If Kakash couldn't figure out how how to destroy the mirrors then why do you think Sasuke could?

Rock Lee was only sucessful against Sasuke because he was using taijutsu which is effective against the Sharingan...or well against somebody who didn't master it like Sasuke.This wasn't a real fight either.I am sure Sasuke didn't think Rock Lee was that talented not to mention Haku had to worry about Sasuke and Naruto who were both trying to kill him while he was holding back.

The fight between Kakashi and Zabusa cannot be considered as a one on one scenario. He had too many things to think about first was that not only did he have to guard himself but also Sakura and the old guy. He also was also not in 100% attentive mode because he was worried at Sasuke and Naruto's condition. As it is their first true fight.

Zabusa on the other hand could care less about what was to happen to Haku and could strike either Kakashi, Sakura, or the Old Guy. It was a Handicapped match and yet Kakashi still won.

And about those websites that contains character bios. I said that I don't believe that there were canon but if there were then I'd have to use them myself then.

Neji's stats at Pre-Chunnin
http://narutoinfo.ru/pages-8.html

Kidoumaru's stats - scroll down to Kidoumaru's
http://narutoinfo.ru/pages-238.html

Now if you'd look at the stats Kidoumarou is way more powerful than Neji at that time. Then why the hell did Neji win? Because as blax said it all comes down to skill and what the Character can and cannot do against it's opponents.

I could care less if Whether Kakashi is weaker than Zabusa and Kakashi is stronger than Neji and then you would automatically presume Zabusa then is stronger than Neji. Hell if that's your reasoning then we could now all see Sasuke as being the strongest on the series. Because Sasuke defeated Itachi and Orochimaru.
He is now stronger than Kakashi and the 3rd Hokage who was then defeated by the two respectively.

Neji and Lee will take down Zabusa and Haku

Originally posted by dant3g0

Now if you'd look at the stats Kidoumarou is way more powerful than Neji at that time. Then why the hell did Neji win? Because as blax said it all comes down to skill and what the Character can and cannot do against it's opponents.

I could care less if Whether Kakashi is weaker than Zabusa and Kakashi is stronger than Neji and then you would automatically presume Zabusa then is stronger than Neji. Hell if that's your reasoning then we could now all see Sasuke as being the strongest on the series. Because Sasuke defeated Itachi and Orochimaru.
He is now stronger than Kakashi and the 3rd Hokage who was then defeated by the two respectively.

Neji and Lee will take down Zabusa and Haku

Originally posted by Kento
Zabuza can play the same game as Kidomaru with his water style jutsu in mist and not have anything connected to him.

Oh now your just making stuff up.

How will Zabusa:

1.] Attack in Range whereas it is clear he is a close combat fighter.
2.] Create webbings embedded with chakra to stop his opponent.
3.] Summon hundreds of spiders to fight for him.
4.] Uncover Neji's Blindspot.
4.] Attack Neji's blindspot with an over 100% accuracy.
5.] Cover himself up with webbing that will help protect him from the gentle fist and points of divinity.

And if the off-chance he can really do those:
Why the hell did he not use it against Kakashi instead he let Kakashi hand his ass over to him. When it's already a handicapped fight in favor of Zabusa.

If Zabusa was even as fast as a Lee without the weights he could have easily pawned the old guy and Sakura in a Heartbeat. Those are two people Kakashi cannot protect simultaneously.

If he can't even attack with those kinds of openings. How the hell will he connect with Neji who has a 360 degrees vision with a 50m radius. Chakra Emitting field that will sense an attack even if he cannot see it. Or Against Kaiten.

Or better yet how will he protect himself from Neji's attack who we could clearly say that can cope up with a Lee without weights. Attacks that will stop Chakra flow. And deadly blows that can even go trough an armor embedded with chakra.

He does'nt even have his element of suprise which is probably the only reason that made Kakashi struggle in their fight.

Originally posted by dant3g0
Yes but that was a before the Time-Skip Neji. The current Neji

Oh now your just making stuff up.

How will Zabusa:

1.] Attack in Range whereas it is clear he is a close combat fighter.
2.] Create webbings embedded with chakra to stop his opponent.
3.] Summon hundreds of spiders to fight for him.
4.] Uncover Neji's Blindspot.
4.] Attack Neji's blindspot with an over 100% accuracy.
5.] Cover himself up with webbing that will help protect him from the gentle fist and points of divinity.

And if the off-chance he can really do those:
Why the hell did he not use it against Kakashi instead he let Kakashi hand his ass over to him. When it's already a handicapped fight in favor of Zabusa.

If Zabusa was even as fast as a Lee without the weights he could have easily pawned the old guy and Sakura in a Heartbeat. Those are two people Kakashi cannot protect simultaneously.

If he can't even attack with those kinds of openings. How the hell will he connect with Neji who has a 360 degrees vision woth a 50m radius. Chakra Emitting field that will sense an attack even if he cannot see it. Or Against Kaiten.

Or better yet how will he protect himself from Neji's attack who we could clearly say that can cope up with a Lee without weights. Attacks that will stop Chakra flow. And deadly blows that can even go trough an armor embedded with chakra.

He does'nt even have his element of suprise which is probably the only reason that made Kakashi struggle in their fight.

I meant attacking from a distance where Neji can't see him but instead of being hidden in trees and far away he could just hide in a mist he creates and use water style jutsu which are long range attacks.

Zabuza lost to the sharingan. Something Neji doesn't have. Zabuza could have killed the old man the time he got inbetween Sakura, Sasuke, Naruto, and the old man. Instead he just appeared there not using any attack.

As for the Byakugan..for it suppose to see everywhere it's been fooled plenty of times. By Jirobu, Kidomaru, Naruto, and Tobi. Why couldn't Zabuza with his mist fool it? There's nothing to even suggest it wouldn't.

Making the field full of mist would give him the element of surprise for the most part. Mix that with water clones he always uses, and the fact he uses shurikens a lot along with his long sword. Neji isn't going to know where he's coming from. The only hope Neji has is that chakra field but even then he'll know something is there but not what. He'd waste more chakra than anything trying to stay alive. And when he runs out he'll be helpless. And the fact Zabuza uses water clones, and shurikens so much would get him to know about Kaiten. All he has to do it wait for Neji to run out of chakra while staying hidden and using shuriken and weak long range jutsu.

Neji has a better chance against Haku than he does Zabuza. Zabuza can beat either Lee or Neji one quite easily. Besides the fact that Lee is easily predictable and Zabuza being as skilled as he is should be able to read his moves the mist would counter out anything Lee could do. You can't fight what you can't see.

The fact Lee is easily read could also be a very good reason why Neji can beat him and not be shown nearly as fast.

Originally posted by Kento
Zabuza could have killed the old man the time he got inbetween Sakura, Sasuke, Naruto, and the old man. Instead he just appeared there not using any attack.

No he did attack the old man and yet Kakashi still got there quick enough to stab him. You could see his sword being swung at one of the panels.

Originally posted by Kento
Making the field full of mist would give him the element of surprise for the most part. Mix that with water clones he always uses, and the fact he uses shurikens a lot along with his long sword. Neji isn't going to know where he's coming from.

Kidomaru was able to do that because he was in fact a long range fighter. And uses a Bow not a shuriken which is better in power and precision. And I dont believe Zabusa can attack in long range the same way Kidomaru did.

Besides Zabusa will not do that kind of tactic because it is not in his repertoire. If it was he would have done it against Kakashi.

The attack he will most likely do is what he did against Kakashi on their first encounter. Using a clone to attack first to measure the enemy. Then when Neji attack the clone he will attack Neji from behind. But Neji can see behind him so he can easily counter attack Zabusa. And it will come down to a fight in Taijutsu which will then Neji has the upperhand. A slash a kick for Zabusa but one hit from the Gentle fist and his done.

If he will then use the same tactic against Kakashi and use the water prison in which he undeniably labeled inescapable. Neji will just wait till he drops his guard down then break the prison and attack him in surprise.

Originally posted by dant3g0
No he did attack the old man and yet Kakashi still got there quick enough to stab him. You could see his sword being swung at one of the panels.

Kidomaru was able to do that because he was in fact a long range fighter. And uses a Bow not a shuriken which is better in power and precision. And I dont believe Zabusa can attack in long range the same way Kidomaru did.

Besides Zabusa will not do that kind of tactic because it is not in his repertoire. If it was he would have done it against Kakashi.

The attack he will most likely do is what he did against Kakashi on their first encounter. Using a clone to attack first to measure the enemy. Then when Neji attack the clone he will attack Neji from behind. But Neji can see behind him so he can easily counter attack Zabusa. And it will come down to a fight in Taijutsu which will then Neji has the upperhand. A slash a kick for Zabusa but one hit from the Gentle fist and his done.

If he will then use the same tactic against Kakashi and use the water prison in which he undeniably labeled inescapable. Neji will just wait till he drops his guard down then break the prison and attack him in surprise.

Zabuza is going to get up close and personal when he sees Kaiten why? Any attack that Zabuza would use to test him Neji would deflect with Kaiten against so he'd see it. Also Zabuza doesn't need to be as far as Kidomaru did because the mist will block him. Along with multiple water clones. There is also a difference in Neji and Kakashi. He'd see Neji's Kaiten while Kakashi has nothing like that to knock him back or block attacks. Neji also wouldn't have the upperhand in h2h. Zabuza is more skilled and more ruthless. Plus a longer reach and a large sword. Neji would have to actually hit him for gentle fist to work.

It's weird that my one post destroyed most of the pro-Neji/Lee arguments but no one acknowledges it...

It's because no one wants to look through all those scans. haermm

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
It's because no one wants to look through all those scans. haermm

Well of course, for debates.

ANyone ca sit on there fatass and watch a video, it takes skills to read through multipel scans. haermm

Originally posted by Kento
No he didn't. He's right there behind Team 7, and in front of the old man. He puts his hand up and Kakashi attacks him. He doesn't swing. I'm talking about the water clone he did it with also.

Zabuza is going to get up close and personal when he sees Kaiten why? Any attack that Zabuza would use to test him Neji would deflect with Kaiten against so he'd see it. Also Zabuza doesn't need to be as far as Kidomaru did because the mist will block him. Along with multiple water clones. There is also a difference in Neji and Kakashi. He'd see Neji's Kaiten while Kakashi has nothing like that to knock him back or block attacks. Neji also wouldn't have the upperhand in h2h. Zabuza is more skilled and more ruthless. Plus a longer reach and a large sword. Neji would have to actually hit him for gentle fist to work.

first of all neji can see the chakra inside the mist as he did in the raiga fillers on that kid with the eyes was making illusions he was the only 1 to really fool the byakugan and neji doesnt have 2 be tht close cuz 64 is inescapable. zabuza's sword is not that great because it has been blosk with a fist on 2 occcasions kakashi and tobi.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Well of course, for debates.

ANyone ca sit on there fatass and watch a video, it takes skills to read through multipel scans. haermm

Originally posted by Kento
No he didn't. He's right there behind Team 7, and in front of the old man. He puts his hand up and Kakashi attacks him. He doesn't swing. I'm talking about the water clone he did it with also.

His clearly said "It's Over" because he was cocky enough to think his hit would connect and on the second panel from the left you can see his sword being swung.

Oh now your just making stuff up.

How will Zabusa:

1.] Attack in Range whereas it is clear he is a close combat fighter.
2.] Create webbings embedded with chakra to stop his opponent.
3.] Summon hundreds of spiders to fight for him.
4.] Uncover Neji's Blindspot.
4.] Attack Neji's blindspot with an over 100% accuracy.
5.] Cover himself up with webbing that will help protect him from the gentle fist and points of divinity.

And if the off-chance he can really do those:
Why the hell did he not use it against Kakashi instead he let Kakashi hand his ass over to him. When it's already a handicapped fight in favor of Zabusa.

If Zabusa was even as fast as a Lee without the weights he could have easily pawned the old guy and Sakura in a Heartbeat. Those are two people Kakashi cannot protect simultaneously.

If he can't even attack with those kinds of openings. How the hell will he connect with Neji who has a 360 degrees vision with a 50m radius. Chakra Emitting field that will sense an attack even if he cannot see it. Or Against Kaiten.

Or better yet how will he protect himself from Neji's attack who we could clearly say that can cope up with a Lee without weights. Attacks that will stop Chakra flow. And deadly blows that can even go trough an armor embedded with chakra.

He does'nt even have his element of suprise which is probably the only reason that made Kakashi struggle in their fight

Oh boy I keep saying this is the last post but I keep coming back. Did you think Zabuza became a Jonin and a ANBU member just because he can hide in mist? He only used that because Kakashi has Sharingan.Again let me repeat IF ZABUZA WOULD OF KILLED KAKASHI,SASUKE AND NARUTO THE SHOW WOULD BE OVER...THERE WAS NO WAY ZABUZA OR HAKU WAS GOING TO WIN THAT FIGHT.ZABUZA COULD OF EASILY MADE MORE WATER OR SHADOW CLONES WHEN HE HAD KAKASHI TRAPPED IN THE WATER PRISON..HE COULD OF HAD SOME HELP HIM KILL KAKASHI AND HAD THE OTHERS KEEP SAKURA,SASUKE AND NARUTO FROM INTERFERRING BUT AGAIN IF THIS WOULD OF HAPPENED THE SHOW WOULD OF BEEN OVER RIGHT THERE.

IF ROCK LEE WAS SO SKILLED THEN WHY IS HE STILL A CHUNNIN?EVEN AFTER THE 3 YEAR TIME SKIP HE IS STILL A CHUNNIN.APPARENTLY HE ISNT REALLY THAT SKILLED IS HE? NEJI IS A JONIN BUT A LOW LEVEL ONE ACCORDING TO THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE NARUTO. HIS OFFICIAL STATS STILL PALE IN COMPARISON TO ZABUZA THE FIRST REAL VILLIAN IN THE SHOW.

ZABUZA WAS IN ANBU JUST LIKE KAKASHI WHICH MEANS THEY BOTH KNOW HOW TO KILL OR PUT TO SLEEP JUST BY USING ONE NEEDLE JUST LIKE HAKU.HOW DID YOU THINK HAKU LEARNED?HE WAS NEVER IN ANBU. DID KAKASHI USE FIRE BALL JUTSU AGAINST ZABUZA? BUT IF YOU WATCHED THE SHOW YOU WOULD KNOW MOST JONIN IN THE HIDDEN LEAF VILLAGE KNOW HOW TO DO THIS. KAKASHI KNOWS OVER 1000 JUTSU BUT HOW MANY DID HE USE AGAINST ZABUZA? KAKASHI IS THE MOST SKILLED JONIN IN THE HIDDEN LEAF VILLAGE SO WHY TRY TO COMPARE ROCK LEE A MORON WHO CAN'T USE NINJUTSU OR GENJUTSU AT ALL WITH KAKASHI? HOW MANY DIFFERENT JUTSU HAVE YOU SEEN NEJI USE? IF GENTLE FIST WAS SO DEADLY THEN WHY ISNT NEJI'S UNCLE CONSIDERED THE MOST SKILLED NINJA IN THE LEAF VILLAGE WHEN HIS OFFICAL NUMBERS ARE FAR BETTER THAN NEJI.

THE ONLY PERSON YOU SEEN ZABUZA FIGHT AGAINST WAS KAKASHI A ELITE LEVEL JONIN. ROCK LEE WAS ALMOST KILLED BY GAARA A CHUNNIN AT THE POINT WITH NO SPEED.POWER.TAIJUTSU.OR GENJUTSU. THIS IS KIND OF FUNNY BECAUSE EVEN THE CHUNNIN AND GENNIN ON THE SHOW ADMIT THEY ARE NO MATCH FOR A JONIN BUT SOME HOW YOU PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE.

Originally posted by yungz22
first of all neji can see the chakra inside the mist as he did in the raiga fillers on that kid with the eyes was making illusions he was the only 1 to really fool the byakugan and neji doesnt have 2 be tht close cuz 64 is inescapable. zabuza's sword is not that great because it has been blosk with a fist on 2 occcasions kakashi and tobi.

Originally posted by dant3g0
His clearly said "It's Over" because he was cocky enough to think his hit would connect and on the second panel from the left you can see his sword being swung.

Originally posted by Kento
Because fillers count...compared to how many times in canon it's been easily fooled in forests when the person was extremely close to them and he nor Hinata was able to see somebody when actually looking for them. Okay I was wrong he did swing..But then again it was a water clone and they are weaker. And he took the time to talk and move his hand before beginning to even swing that huge sword of his. And Zabuza just before that also said he would have to beat Kakashi before he could kill the old man. I highly doubt he thought it was going to be that easy. Which is probably why it was a water clone.

name 1 time it was actually fooled in canon other than kidumaro who didnt even didnt fool it he just figured out his weakness.
and fail to take account two the 2 times zabuza's sword was blocked by just a mere hand kakashi and tobi so im pretty sure lee could do the same and if notlee wouldnt even be hit by that sword anyway because he is too fast for that