Dream of the Endless vs. MJJ

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm saying one isn't dreaming when they think. 🙂

Which is why Jaspers wouldn't have to make anyone an unthinking vegy
in order to rub out the concept of Dreams.

To unmake him in that one Universe, you would HAVE to remove the thoughts from every lifeform, (Jaspers included.)

And MJJ without thought, is a powerless MJJ. But that would get him the win. 🙂

dreams are still thoughts, thoughts are concepts created by your mind they are then divided into conscious and subconscious. Lucid dreaming is the act of being conscious in your dreams. Daydreaming is similar but does not require sleep but many thoughts from the subconscious can arise in a daydream. Then there are people who meditate and do trance work bringing elements of both conscious and subconscious thoughts into action simultaneously, then there is memory which is housed in the subconscious mind and accessed consciously and sometimes intuitively if it's memory based on a routine action like breathing. Point being dreams are thoughts and conscious and subconscious are what make up the mind and by extension the thought process.

Originally posted by Galan007
Thoughts and dreams are what make Morpheus a concept...
They are what he embodies as a member of the Endless.

I thought he was the embodiment of Dreams.

not of Conscious Thoughts as well.

For the record, conscious Thoughts are Not Dreams.

Originally posted by Galan007
To unmake him in that one Universe,

Which exponentially would expand into the entire Omniverse.

Originally posted by Galan007
you would HAVE to remove the thoughts from every lifeform, (Jaspers included.)

So even if the Concept of Dreams is made null/void,

Morpheus is still lingering around because beings Think?

Can I have some scan or issue # that states
Morph is the embodiment of Thoughts as well as Dreams?

Originally posted by Galan007
And MJJ without thought, is a powerless MJJ.

Actually MJJ's Warp expands automatically on it's own.

Jaspers only needs to think in order to manipulate the contents within his Warp.

Originally posted by Galan007
But that would get him the win. [/B]

Cool.

Meh,

Don't care to debate any further really.

I've stated my stance of the subject a few times now, stating it again would just waste time. 🙂

Originally posted by LordKaos
dreams are still thoughts, thoughts are concepts created by your mind they are then divided into conscious and subconscious. Lucid dreaming is the act of being conscious in your dreams. Daydreaming is similar but does not require sleep but many thoughts from the subconscious can arise in a daydream. Then there are people who meditate and do trance work bringing elements of both conscious and subconscious thoughts into action simultaneously, then there is memory which is housed in the subconscious mind and accessed consciously and sometimes intuitively if it's memory based on a routine action like breathing. Point being dreams are thoughts and conscious and subconscious are what make up the mind and by extension the thought process.

Nice.

In the end though,

Thoughts are NOT dreams.

Unless we're dreaming right now as we speak. 😂

Originally posted by Galan007
Meh,

Don't care to debate any further really.

As you wish.

Originally posted by Galan007
I've stated my stance of the subject a few times now,
stating it again would just waste time.

I didn't know I was asking you to repeat yourself.

Besides your claim, I asked for proof that states,
Morpheus is the embodiment of Thoughts as well as Dreams.

I don't remember asking it before,
so you didn't bring closer to that point.

And I reminded you that Jaspers would not be left powerless because he stops thinking.

Why?

Because Jaspers' Warp expnads exponentially on it's own,
Jaspers only needs to Think
in order to manipulate the area affected by his Warp.

I never said thoughts were dreams I said dreams are thougths. And with the division of consciousness, from a subconscious view dreaming is the way your subconscious mind thinks. Futhermore one part of your mind does not shut down because the other is dominate so for all we know since most of us have no way of knowing what's going on in our SC mind when awake you quite possibly could be dreaming right now and not be aware because your conscious mind is now dominant. Not to mention the SC is pretty much where everything we have ever experienced is stored and can be accessed via dreams or memory.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Because Jaspers' Warp expnads exponentially on it's own,
Jaspers only needs to Think
in order to manipulate the area affected by his Warp.

Originally posted by LordKaos
I never said thoughts were dreams I said dreams are thougths. And with the division of consciousness, from a subconscious view dreaming is the way your subconscious mind thinks. Futhermore one part of your mind does not shut down because the other is dominate so for all we know since most of us have no way of knowing what's going on in our SC mind when awake you quite possibly could be dreaming right now and not be aware because your conscious mind is now dominant. Not to mention the SC is pretty much where everything we have ever experienced is stored and can be accessed via dreams or memory.

I was just making sure we understood that Conscious Thoughts,
have nothing to do with Dreams.

Now Dreams may depend on Thoughts,
but that's inconsequential concerning this specific debate.

Originally posted by Galan007
That is what keeps Morpheus alive as a concept.

Good thing Jaspers doesn't need to think
for his Warp to overwhelm Time/Space and everything in it.

Also, can you post the scan or issue #
where it's stated that Morpheus is the embodiment of Thoughts
as well as Dreams.

I have the collection, point me in the direction.

It's not inconsequential it seems to be the basis of the debate the last few posts (that's what I found most interesting about this thread), and I wouldn't go so far as saying that dreams have nothing to do with conscious thoughts because of the phenomena known as lucid dreaming when you are just as "awake" as you are in the real world. The two are only separated by a thin veil that can be crossed with the right knowledge. I myself through study and meditation over the course of about 10 years can induce lucid dreams whenever I feel like it, sometimes even confusing the two thinking that I am actually awake when I'm asleep and sometimes being confused about whether I dreamed something or if it really happened, those of course being the most extreme cases.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Good thing Jaspers doesn't need to think
for his Warp to overwhelm Time/Space and everything in it.

MJJ would have to think for things to change.... The changes he made didn't just happen for no reason lol.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Also, can you post the scan or issue #
where it's stated that Morpheus is the embodiment of Thoughts
as well as Dreams.

When one is rendered unable to think,

Then, and only then, would the concept Morpheus embodies no longer be needed.

Originally posted by Galan007
Huh?

That's right.

Originally posted by Galan007
MJJ would have to think for things to change....
The changes he made didn't just happen for no reason lol.

That's what I said lol.

Jaspers only needs to think to manipulate Reality within his Warp.

But the Warp itself (which makes Reality His) expands exponentially and on it's own.

Originally posted by Galan007
Dreams are nothing more then thoughts..

But Thoughts are Not dreams.

And in the conscious world, we'll be dealing with Thoughts, not dreams.

Originally posted by Galan007
When one is rendered unable to think,

Then, and only then, would the concept Morpheus embodies no longer be needed.

Perhaps in the DC Reality where thoughts are dreams.

But in Marvel, Thoughts are not dreams, just like in the real world.

So I guesss it depends where they're situated.

And again,

can you show us or tell me where it's stated that Morph is the embodiment of Thoughts?

Cause I swore he was the embodiment of Dreams.
Hence the name "Dream."

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's what I said lol.

Jaspers only needs to think to manipulate Reality within his Warp.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Good thing Jaspers doesn't need to think
for his Warp to overwhelm Time/Space and everything in it.

😄

Originally posted by Mr Master
So I guesss it depends where they're situated.

Originally posted by Mr Master
And again,

[B]can you show us or tell me where it's stated that Morph is the embodiment of Thoughts?

Cause I swore he was the embodiment of Dreams.
Hence the name "Dream." [/B]

What are dreams?

-Thoughts.

So it only stands to reason that Morpheus not only controls dreams, but thoughts as well... [As thoughts are a part of what he embodies].

Originally posted by Mr Master
Good thing Jaspers doesn't need to think
for his Warp to overwhelm Time/Space and everything in it.

Also, can you post the scan or issue #
where it's stated that Morpheus is the embodiment of Thoughts
as well as Dreams.

I have the collection, point me in the direction.

Wouldn't he need to think in order to control the warp? Or else it would just be uncontrolled energy, for someone else to come and take over.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's right.

That's what I said lol.

Jaspers only needs to think to manipulate Reality within his Warp.

But the Warp itself (which makes Reality His) expands exponentially and on it's own.

But Thoughts are Not dreams.

And in the conscious world, we'll be dealing with Thoughts, not dreams.

Perhaps in the DC Reality where thoughts are dreams.

But in Marvel, Thoughts are not dreams, just like in the real world.

So I guesss it depends where they're situated.

And again,

[B]can you show us or tell me where it's stated that Morph is the embodiment of Thoughts?

Cause I swore he was the embodiment of Dreams.
Hence the name "Dream." [/B]

Morph Beat the star conquerer who uses THOUGHTS and an enormous psi power. Not dreams.

Originally posted by Galan007
No it's not:

Yes it is.

Be thorough brother G, you know I dislike the opposite.

I clearly said,

"Good thing Jaspers doesn't need to think
for his Warp to overwhelm Time/Space and everything in it"

Again,

Jaspers' WARP expands on it's own, Warping Reality on it's own.

It turns Reality into mush, because that's what Jaspers' Mind is ... insanity.

I have the proof if needed.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm pretty sure I've explained my stance on that...

What are dreams?

-Thoughts.

What are thoughts?

Not dreams.

Originally posted by Galan007
So it only stands to reason that Morpheus not only controls dreams,
but thoughts as well... [As thoughts are a part of what he embodies].

So you have no proof, this is just your personal opinion?

Morpheus may control thoughts that take place in dreams.

But ol' Morph can not
and does not control Thoughts in the conscious world,
which have NO association with "dreams"

Now if you have proof, I'll gladly concede.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So you have no proof, this is just your personal opinion?

So to say Morpheus doesn't control thoughts to some degree is ludacris, [not the rapper]. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yes it is.

Be thorough brother G, you know I dislike the opposite.

I clearly said,

"Good thing Jaspers doesn't need to think
[B]for his Warp to overwhelm Time/Space and everything in it"

Again,

Jaspers' WARP expands on it's own, Warping Reality on it's own.

It turns Reality into mush, because that's what Jaspers' Mind is ... insanity.

I have the proof if needed.

What are thoughts?

Not dreams.

So you have no proof, this is just your personal opinion?

Morpheus may control thoughts that take place in dreams.

But ol' Morph can not
and does not control Thoughts in the conscious world,
which have NO association with "dreams"

Now if you have proof, I'll gladly concede. [/B]

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Wouldn't he need to think in order to control the warp?

Nah,

the Warp expands exponentially on its own until the Omniverse is covered.

He does however need to think in order to mold and manipulate
what's been touched by his warp.

But the Warp itself twists and turns Reality on it's own into madness.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Or else it would just be uncontrolled energy, for someone else to come and take over. [/B]

"Uncontrolled energy?"

It's his energy, his power.