The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki-Worth it?

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
I understand war very well. That doesn't mean I have to excuse it.

I fully agree with you, here.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
And all of those actions prove that those in charge don't deserve their lives or their positions. That may be how war is, but that doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean you should excuse them just because their actions were understandable.

No, they certainly do, if their constituents wanted them in office. 😄 (That smartassery made me wish Chillmeistergen were still here. 🙁 )

I agree that things, as measured by my own moral meter stick, that happen in war aren't right...that doesn't make me objectively correct, either

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Easier doesn't mean the better choice..

That depends on your measure of success.

Also, instead of refutting a quip, refute the actual point.

In fact, replace "easier this way" with "minimizes the loss of lives".

Wait wait wait!
I got one, I got one.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So...where's the line?

You snorted it. awesome

Originally posted by dadudemon
Wait wait wait!
I got one, I got one.

You snorted it. awesome

Some good old esprit d'escalier, always good. Though little esprit there.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Some good old esprit d'escalier, always good. Though little esprit there.

Could I not say the same of you?

I think the bombings were worth it for one reason and one reason only. Have any other nations bombed the U.S. since then? that would be no. America's government keeping it's citizens safe at home. Abroad, not so much....at home, snug as a bug.

I'm biased because I live in America and never need worry about another nation dropping bombs in my neighborhood. Point still stands.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
America's government keeping it's citizens safe at home. Abroad, not so much....at home, snug as a bug.

Don't know if it slipped passed you unnoticed but there was this thing that happened on September 11th 2001...

Which was important due to how rare such events are. In Europe 9/11 type things are apparently just a part of the morning routine.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Which was important due to how rare such events are. In Europe 9/11 type things are apparently just a part of the morning routine.

True...Doesn't go down too well around these parts though. We're probably the only country in the world where the natives would see a man on fire and the 1st thought would be to kick his ass.

Originally posted by jaden101
Don't know if it slipped passed you unnoticed but there was this thing that happened on September 11th 2001...

must have slipped past me. I could have sworn a nation was not behind this, a group of militant religous zealots were. must have missed the news.

you can't nuke an entire country to take out 200 people that could be hiding anywhere. If it had actually been the Afghanistan or Pakistan military who had carried this out, their country would be a glass parking lot right now. that's why countries haven't f-cked with the USA. They'd like the list to stay Hiroshima, Nagasaki......not adding more to it.

Yes it was justified and I am happy Truman did it. It let the Japanese who brutalized 100 of thousands of people in Nanking China and korea, the philipenes know the ENough is Enough. Emperor Hirohito should have been tried as a war criminal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre#Murder_of_civilians

http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_Nanking_(book)

Yeah, the Japanese f---ed up the Philippines.

Just read some history books. What they did were messed up and disgusting.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Yeah, the Japanese f---ed up the Philippines.

Just read some history books. What they did were messed up and disgusting.

And the Chinese, but no one cares about them, so meh.

right, because other people do bad things, we must also do bad things.

their evil makes everything we do good by definition, and thus, we never have to worry about the moral or material consequences to our actions.

Originally posted by inimalist
right, because other people do bad things, we must also do bad things.

their evil makes everything we do good by definition, and thus, we never have to worry about the moral or material consequences to our actions.

sounds good to me, its how i live my life. do on to others before they do on to you. 😎

lol, hey, whatever works

I'm somewhat concerned with the moral high ground, but how many wars have I won?

Originally posted by inimalist
lol, hey, whatever works

I'm somewhat concerned with the moral high ground, but how many wars have I won?

Just remember, when the enemy has the high ground they're that much closer to the bombers.

Originally posted by inimalist
right, because other people do bad things, we must also do bad things.

their evil makes everything we do good by definition, and thus, we never have to worry about the moral or material consequences to our actions.

That's not the point, now is it.

If you really want to get on the "morals" issue of Japan getting it's ass kicked in WWII, the US dropped the bombs to end the war earlier, which saved America/Allies lives in the long run, can't blame the US for that.

They also did it to show Stalin up and let the CCCP know what the **** was up after the Axis fell, because the bed had turned cold long before the war ended. Was this aspect a dick move? Probably in of itself, but it had a positive side (for American troops).

Japan was a complete Imperial dick in WWII, they were seeking an atom bomb themselves to use against America/Allies, they used Chinese villages as testing grounds for chemical and biological weapons they planned to use against America/Allies. The list goes on and on, yet the Nazi's are the only ones deemed bastards.

So shitting on America while making Japan out to be some victim in WWII just isn't right; I know shitting on America is fun and all, but it's just silly here. <--- not accusing you of specifically doing this.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying it wasn't worth it, actually my first post in the thread was about how silly looking for this type of justification is, as it is 100% relative to an individual.

My real point is that there is hardly justification for killing people in the fact that their government might be doing evil things. Even to save lives. While saving lives is important, and we could argue about how many were saved, it is essentially moot, imho, because I generally do not accept that the ends justify the means.

To bring it around, using "they do evil things" as justification for dropping a nuclear bomb on a civilian centre immediately justifies similar actions returned. The atrocities mentioned above could easily be "nuking unarmed civilians and hospitals", giving any other nation on the planet the right to commit atrocities on American civilians, using the very same justification.

Well, I don't think the 'US bombed Japan because they were committing war crimes' is correct in of itself. It dropped the bombs to end the [Pacific] war, save American(Allies) lives and to show Stalin he was still just a little man with a gimping leg.

The first two reasons are definitely justified, considering the war environment. You can say "innocent civilians", yet we both well know that innocent people die in wars, just a fact and those civilians were the fuel of Japan's war machine, soldiers weren't the ones on the homeland making bullets, guns, planes and food rations.

Might as well shit on the UK and the US for the nightly bombings on Berlin and Germany's other centers of war-production. As plenty of civilians were killed there too.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Could I not say the same of you?

You could, though you'd be wrong related to that post. I was really just pointing it out because you replied twice to the same post only thinking of your joke later.