Saw this video while stumbling, thought it might be relevant to this discussion.
Originally posted by inimalist
right, because other people do bad things, we must also do bad things.their evil makes everything we do good by definition, and thus, we never have to worry about the moral or material consequences to our actions.
I don't think what America did was bad....It was good to set things right. Too many people would have died if we invaded the main land. Better they die by the Atomic bomb..than Americans die because the Japanese were to dumb or stubborn to quit.
No one is crying for the tormented souls of the Koreans, Vietnamese, Philipino, Chinese, Vietnamese who the Japanese victimized in a horrible way. The Nazis were bad, but at least had enough civility to gas people most of the time. The Japanese ran people over with tanks, raped women, cut babies out of stomachs burned thousands of people alive poured acid on people. Played games with people burning half the body....etc. f' japan. Those mf'ers wont even apologize. Germany did
I don't always have faith in America, but in the long run I beleive in America. What would the world be like if the Anglo American alliance wasnt in charge. Look what they did for Japan. Its not like they bombed them and left them in ruins.
The world is a better place with America, England, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand running things.
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
[B]No one is crying for the tormented souls of the Koreans, Vietnamese, Philipino, Chinese, Vietnamese who the Japanese victimized in a horrible way. The Nazis were bad, but at least had enough civility to gas people most of the time. The Japanese ran people over with tanks, raped women, cut babies out of stomachs burned thousands of people alive poured acid on people.Played games with people burning half the body....etc.
Yeah, the Nazis didn't do anything like that . . .
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
[B]Those mf'ers wont even apologize. Germany did
Who's still alive that was specifically involved in the raping babies to death thing? Why would a person who did that care about apologising?
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
[B]What would the world be like if the Anglo American alliance wasnt in charge.
No one knows.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yeah, the Nazis didn't do anything like that . . .Who's still alive that was specifically involved in the raping babies to death thing? Why would a person who did that care about apologising?
No one knows.
It dosen't matter...they need to appologize as a people. Germany did it. I also said Nazi did stuff that was horrible, but the usually gassed people. Japanese did some nasty shit to everyone and anything. Did you even read any of those links I posted about the Japanese. People may be alive. I know some WW2 veterans....this didnt happen thousands of years ago. Hell one of the last WW1 veterans just died.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. not a necessity
2. specifically targetted civilian area with large population to demoralise{i.e. terrorism}
3. the number of non combatant deaths
4. done primarily to destroy a power opposing an empire{im referring to america as an empire}
5. unjustified retaliation
1) America had previously bombed Japan for six months with conventional arms in trying to force a surrender, Imperial Japan refused to surrender.
2) LoL. MIght as well call just about every bombing raid in WW2 "terrorism" then. Also see point 1)
3) Civilians are the backbone of the military, or do you think soldiers and munitions just 'spawn' out of thin air. Also see point 1)
4) WTF? Japan was the empire and it was the aggressor here. They attacked first.
5) See point 1)
Japan had several opportunities to surrender and spare itself the atomics, they didn't want to at first, then they wanted concessions; them being the aggressors and the would be world conquerors where in no position to ask or expect concessions.
Edit: IYO, what should have America done when Japan refused to surrender?
1) yes, and the firestorm prior to the nuke was even worse. and your talking like america has a god given right to MAKE empires other than itself SURRENDER
2) yes, but necessity can easen the guilt a bit in many of the other cases
3) just like children become adults and mothers produce human beings. shud i start indescriminately killing either because a random human or adult harmed me or killed a loved one? civilians shud never be harmed in wars, and if they are, it i rightly a war crime. injustifyable
4) america is also an empire. and pearl harbour did not justify nuking and napalm bombing specifically civilian areas. pearl harbour was a military target, remember
5) fail
how does the stubborness of an emporer {well ONE emporer at any rate lol} translate to his entire people? guilt by association? and what gave america the right to even be in a position to OFFER concession?
stupidity
edit : nothing, one evil empire vs another evil empire, there is no winning, all actions are driven by self interest and are morally unjustified. america was just the bigger ***** in this equation.
ofcourse, if you are asking practically, assasination/espionage/bombardment of specifically military targets to take away strike capability.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
1) yes, and the firestorm prior to the nuke was even worse. and your talking like america has a god given right to MAKE empires other than itself SURRENDER2) yes, but necessity can easen the guilt a bit in many of the other cases
3) just like children become adults and mothers produce human beings. shud i start indescriminately killing either because a random human or adult harmed me or killed a loved one? civilians shud never be harmed in wars, and if they are, it i rightly a war crime. injustifyable
4) america is also an empire. and pearl harbour did not justify nuking and napalm bombing specifically civilian areas. pearl harbour was a military target, remember
5) fail
how does the stubborness of an emporer {well ONE emporer at any rate lol} translate to his entire people? guilt by association? and what gave america the right to even be in a position to OFFER concession?
stupidity
edit : nothing, one evil empire vs another evil empire, there is no winning, all actions are driven by self interest and are morally unjustified. america was just the bigger ***** in this equation.
ofcourse, if you are asking practically, assasination/espionage/bombardment of specifically military targets to take away strike capability.
Let me guess, America was wrong in conventionally bombing Japan too? They were at war, did you forget? Surrendering is a part of that.
You have a very illogical and childish grasp of war. Civilians die, it happens. WW2 was a conventional full-scale war, destroying your enemy's ability to wage war against you is vital, ergo, the civilian deaths happen.
Okay, America is an empire, you go with that. Guess what, civilians died in Pearl Harbor too, oh noes.
WTF? Japan refused to surrender, it's not like it's military and civilians rebelled and took out their emperor.
Because it was a war and America had proven the better combatant than it's aggressor enemy. Again, your grasp of war is illogical.
Stupidity? Don't follow you here.
Ah, so a non-answer and then just claiming America is shit. Good. Japan had retreated itself back to it's homeland and stated it would fight to the bitter end. America either had the bombings or launch massive ground invasion. Which would have cost hundreds of thousands live still, this time though, masses American lives would have been included.
The whole "America is an evil empite" bit is hilarious, makes me think of some kid getting all uppity listening to Rage Against the Machine. Then going to Starbucks.
yes
not at all, infact, i wud say its childish to buy into propaganda stating that america was in it for any other reason then self interest as an empire. and despite everything youve stated, i still know that war is WRONG and killing of innocents under any circumstances outside of error is a morally reprehensible act.
they werent targetted though, collateral damage. and yes, that is wrong too, although targetting civilians specifically for mass murder is in a whole other league.
and your grasp of reasoning is immature. by that logic, every suicide bomber who attacks israel and america is justified.
america is shit, and how is giving three effective/sensible/plausible options a non answer? stating means nothing if you are incapable of doing it. the wrest is propagandist bull, a ground invasion wudnt have cost as many lives by a long shot and american lives are no more precious than japanese lives so i cud care less about the second part. america had the ability to bomb the naval vessels and ship yards of japan which wud have taken away the island's ability to launch any invasion much less one against america, hence, dealing with the only threat it ever posed america militarily and the rationalisation for all this bull. america also had the option to NOT target civilian areas for NAPALM bombing{which was SPECIFICALLY done against human targets due to the nature of napalms and chosen as japanese houses of the time were wooden and wud catch fire one after the other.} and nuking. as well as the ability to target the emporer for assasination or bombing.
guess what, they CHOSE not to do any of those lesser evils.