Sorry for the double post...
Watched Dai Mahou Touge! It was really wierd and random at times... But, very funny and entertaining, and nice violence too! 😄 Kinda wanted to put it above DBZ, but ehh, it was so short, so a draw there too... : /
1. Black Lagoon
2. Hellsing (TV-series and OVAs)
4. Burst Angel
5. Fullmetal Alchemist
6. Dai Mahou Touge / DBZ
And now I started watching Najica, looking good... 😄 And pretty white, if you get my point... 😉
Originally posted by ensatsu-ken
Black Lagoon is one of my top 10 favorite anime as well, but in terms of story, its nothing special. It doesn't really have set story line (although that is something that I really like about it), but rather, its just about a group of mercenaries going around, performing random missions that they are hired for. I also really like Full Metal Panic! (all 3 series/seasons). The ironic thing about it though, is that I am usually not too fond of mecha anime, or anime with mecha in them 😛 .In terms of story line, Samurai Champloo is good, but I have seen some stories that I like better. For me, there is probably no anime that can top Death Note in terms of story line (however, the Rurouni Kenshin manga, not the anime, is equal to Death Note in terms of story line, IMO).
Deathnote really isn't strong in the story department. It just seems like an overdrawn soap opera to me. For example: if you want to tell if there's a lot of story going on look at the elements of the story, and observe how much they progress per episode. With Deathnote they seemed to circle around the same issue for several episodes.
The actually killer is a suspect after a few episodes, the suspect hangs around the detective, then plots to kill him and this takes 25 episodes to accomplish it's too much filler.
Samurai Champloo was a much richer experience because it addressed the most interesting elements of the story without trying to lengthen the series. It had no overarching plot (at least not a strong one) because that can sometimes lead to filler episodes like a lot of animes (deathnote included).
However, Deathnote has some interesting elements but it needs the creator to be more bold. There needs to be more tragedy and early, the threat of death should be ever present for the protagonist, and his own demise should arrive after 26 episodes of suspense and delight.
There's a series out called Dexter, that's very similar to Death Note: watch it. That should give you a very good idea of what I'm talking about.
Originally posted by Allankles
Deathnote really isn't strong in the story department. It just seems like an overdrawn soap opera to me. For example: if you want to tell if there's a lot of story going on look at the elements of the story, and observe how much they progress per episode. With Deathnote they seemed to circle around the same issue for several episodes.The actually killer is a suspect after a few episodes, the suspect hangs around the detective, then plots to kill him and this takes 25 episodes to accomplish it's too much filler.
Samurai Champloo was a much richer experience because it addressed the most interesting elements of the story without trying to lengthen the series. It had no overarching plot (at least not a strong one) because that can sometimes lead to filler episodes like a lot of animes (deathnote included).
However, Deathnote has some interesting elements but it needs the creator to be more bold. There needs to be more tragedy and early, the threat of death should be ever present for the protagonist, and his own demise should arrive after 26 episodes of suspense and delight.
There's a series out called Dexter, that's very similar to Death Note: watch it. That should give you a very good idea of what I'm talking about.
That's your opinion, but it doesn't really change mine. Death Note accomplished a lot in one episode, and their was hardly any fillers, since it was staying very faithful to the manga's story line, without adding too many scenes in (if anything, it cut out a lot). Also, upon actually paying attention to the plot, you would see that its not just going over the same stuff, but rather there is a lot of intellectual development going on with the characters, which may not be so apparently obvious, since its not like an action anime.
As for me, Samurai Champloo was just an average anime experience, but with cool action and animation. Other than that, its story didn't truly pull me in, and I wasn't as entertained with it as I was with Death Note. Basically, Death Note's story almost always kept me on the edge of my seat, in both the manga and the anime.
Originally posted by ensatsu-kenAs for me, Samurai Champloo was just an average anime experience, but with cool action and animation. Other than that, its story didn't truly pull me in, and I wasn't as entertained with it as I was with Death Note. Basically, Death Note's story almost always kept me on the edge of my seat, in both the manga and the anime.
Obviously these are opinions, i'm just try to make a better justification, which is all you can do in such cases.
You can't define the quality of a story based on it's genre. Deathnote is a suspense thriller and is designed to put the viewer a little on edge (given the complexity of the situations). Samurai Champloo is a much more common genre with very common themes, however its more fun to watch than just about every samurai show out there, and has characters that are interesting, strong and a lot less pretentious than so many other characters in anime.
Samurai Champloo is honest, fun and has more quality per episode than most animes, and that's including its predecessor Cowboy Bebop.
Originally posted by ensatsu-ken
That's your opinion, but it doesn't really change mine. Death Note accomplished a lot in one episode, and their was hardly any fillers, since it was staying very faithful to the manga's story line, without adding too many scenes in (if anything, it cut out a lot). Also, upon actually paying attention to the plot, you would see that its not just going over the same stuff, but rather there is a lot of intellectual development going on with the characters, which may not be so apparently obvious, since its not like an action anime.
And as far as my point goes about Death Note's filler, I'm not implying that there's no progress, I'm implying that the progress is too slow and a lot of tension is lost as a result. When Light is captured the first time and subjected to interrogation there's no suspense, because the situation took too long in arriving to one degree (Light is able to prepare for the interrogation) but also to quick in arriving because Light is suspected too quickly.
When you create shows like these, you have to give the killer a little leeway where he's comfortable and is only initially given problems by his victims, then have the investigation slowly lead towards him, because he fails to close out the smallest of loose ends causing him to panic even more. And just as he dodges a bullet and believes he's escaped it all, the authorities close in on him for a final showdown.
In the Death note anime, the creators seemed to be trying too hard to elongate the series. The creators didn't show enough courage (which is what you need when making a suspense thriller) to bring about that fatal tragic final showdown, following the natural progression of the plot, they quite obviously lengthened it. They showed too much avoidance in killing the main characters. I mean, these guys are right in the wheel house of a telepathic (of soughts) killer, yet they aren't dead after 25 episodes?
Yeah I know Lights intent had something to do with that but it's the creators job to take some liberties and force the detectives into a confrontation with light. When no one of significance has died after 25 episodes in a story like this, you know the creators are just pulling for length.
It was done with the manga as an excuse, but a lot of tension got lost once you start going past episode 25.
Originally posted by Allankles
And as far as my point goes about Death Note's filler, I'm not implying that there's no progress, I'm implying that the progress is too slow and a lot of tension is lost as a result. When Light is captured the first time and subjected to interrogation there's no suspense, because the situation took too long in arriving to one degree (Light is able to prepare for the interrogation) but also to quick in arriving because Light is suspected too quickly.When you create shows like these, you have to give the killer a little leeway where he's comfortable and is only initially given problems by his victims, then have the investigation slowly lead towards him, because he fails to close out the smallest of loose ends causing him to panic even more. And just as he dodges a bullet and believes he's escaped it all, the authorities close in on him for a final showdown.
In the Death note anime, the creators seemed to be trying too hard to elongate the series. The creators didn't show enough courage (which is what you need when making a suspense thriller) to bring about that fatal tragic final showdown, following the natural progression of the plot, they quite obviously lengthened it. They showed too much avoidance in killing the main characters. I mean, these guys are right in the wheel house of a telepathic (of soughts) killer, yet they aren't dead after 25 episodes?
Yeah I know Lights intent had something to do with that but it's the creators job to take some liberties and force the detectives into a confrontation with light. When no one of significance has died after 25 episodes in a story like this, you know the creators are just pulling for length.
It was done with the manga as an excuse, but a lot of tension got lost once you start going past episode 25.
Hey, I can perfectly understand that you don't get the same stuff out of Death Note that I do, and I'm perfectly fine with that. But, that's still just the way you see it. Personally, I see Death Note to be a very fast paced anime, and I did enjoy the 2nd arc (although, more so in the manga than in the anime, simpley because the manga included much more detail, which is something that is very important to me). If Death Note isn't your thing, or if you found that the the creator did an unsatisfactory job with crafting the story, its not a problem with me, because its all your opinion, just like how Samurai Champloo being an average anime experience is only my opinion. However, I found Death Note's story and pacing to be done brilliantly, througout the entire manga and anime. Also, I'm not really sure what you meant exactly by saying that the people doing the anime were using the manga as an excuse. Could you clarify what you meant by saying that, for me?
Originally posted by ensatsu-ken
Hey, I can perfectly understand that you don't get the same stuff out of Death Note that I do, and I'm perfectly fine with that. But, that's still just the way you see it. Personally, I see Death Note to be a very fast paced anime, and I did enjoy the 2nd arc (although, more so in the manga than in the anime, simpley because the manga included much more detail, which is something that is very important to me). If Death Note isn't your thing, or if you found that the the creator did an unsatisfactory job with crafting the story, its not a problem with me, because its all your opinion, just like how Samurai Champloo being an average anime experience is only my opinion. However, I found Death Note's story and pacing to be done brilliantly, througout the entire manga and anime. Also, I'm not really sure what you meant exactly by saying that the people doing the anime were using the manga as an excuse. Could you clarify what you meant by saying that, for me?
I didn't say they used the manga as an excuse, I was saying it's a good cover/reason for lengthening the anime, however (for me) they failed to maximize on the medium, because with this type of story shortening it with more intensity per episode would have raised it's quality. It would have been a lot more tragic from very early on, the investigation would have needed to be handle with a little more artistic licence etc (basically making it that much better).
Second, since you keep stating Champloo was an average anime experience (for me it was a superior experience), could you please list the show's you would place on the same level? Because most the shows people like here can't hold a candle to Champloo.
Originally posted by Allankles
I didn't say they used the manga as an excuse, I was saying it's a good cover/reason for lengthening the anime, however (for me) they failed to maximize on the medium, because with this type of story shortening it with more intensity per episode would have raised it's quality. It would have been a lot more tragic from very early on, the investigation would have needed to be handle with a little more artistic licence etc (basically making it that much better).Second, since you keep stating Champloo was an average anime experience (for me it was a superior experience), could you please list the show's you would place on the same level? Because most the shows people like here can't hold a candle to Champloo.
Champaloo was awesome no doubt, though it was kinda short.
Originally posted by Allankles
I didn't say they used the manga as an excuse, I was saying it's a good cover/reason for lengthening the anime, however (for me) they failed to maximize on the medium, because with this type of story shortening it with more intensity per episode would have raised it's quality. It would have been a lot more tragic from very early on, the investigation would have needed to be handle with a little more artistic licence etc (basically making it that much better).Second, since you keep stating Champloo was an average anime experience (for me it was a superior experience), could you please list the show's you would place on the same level? Because most the shows people like here can't hold a candle to Champloo.
Seriously, what exactly don't you understand about OPINIONS 😛 ? Just because you think something, doesn't mean that everyone else does. I said I respected your opinion, and just because I said that I found it to be average, doesn't mean that its average. But it seems that you just can't stand it that someone doesn't think SC is extremely awesome. You say that most shows can't hold a candel to Champloo, I say its average. Personally, while I like it, I say that it can't hold a candel to series like Death Note, Cowboy Bebop, Full Metal Panic!, Hellsing Ultimate, Black Lagoon, Hunter X Hunter, Yu Yu Hakusho, Outlaw Star, Zoids: Chaotic Century/Guardian Force, Fullmetal Alchemist, Hikaru no Go, and quite a few others, but that is all MY OPINION.
If you can't stand that, then too bad, because I'm not changing my opinion just because it upsets you. If you like SC, and think that its a great series, than by all means, you have a right to think that, and maybe it is, but I personally just don't see it to be a "superb" series. For example, most people hate Yu Yu Hakusho, or call it an average shounen, but out of all of the shounen and other series that I have seen, I see much more in YYH than what most people do and do not give it credit for, and for that, I couldn't care less how many people called YYH stupid or lame, because its my opinion that its a great show. In that same sense, Samurai Champloo being great is the opinion of you and others, whereas Death Note being great is the opinion of me and other fans of the series.
Originally posted by ensatsu-ken
Seriously, what exactly don't you understand about OPINIONS 😛 ? Just because you think something, doesn't mean that everyone else does. I said I respected your opinion, and just because I said that I found it to be average, doesn't mean that its average. But it seems that you just can't stand it that someone doesn't think SC is extremely awesome. You say that most shows can't hold a candel to Champloo, I say its average. Personally, while I like it, I say that it can't hold a candel to series like Death Note, Cowboy Bebop, Full Metal Panic!, Hellsing Ultimate, Black Lagoon, Hunter X Hunter, Yu Yu Hakusho, Outlaw Star, Zoids: Chaotic Century/Guardian Force, Fullmetal Alchemist, Hikaru no Go, and quite a few others, but that is all MY OPINION.If you can't stand that, then too bad, because I'm not changing my opinion just because it upsets you. If you like SC, and think that its a great series, than by all means, you have a right to think that, and maybe it is, but I personally just don't see it to be a "superb" series. For example, most people hate Yu Yu Hakusho, or call it an average shounen, but out of all of the shounen and other series that I have seen, I see much more in YYH than what most people do and do not give it credit for, and for that, I couldn't care less how many people called YYH stupid or lame, because its my opinion that its a great show. In that same sense, Samurai Champloo being great is the opinion of you and others, whereas Death Note being great is the opinion of me and other fans of the series.
You make a good point, except there are ways to objectively judge a piece of art. If something is shallow or drawn out or inane or unimpressive or exaggerated, that's what they are because that's what they are.
Yu Yakusho objectively speaking has major flaws when perceiving it as a piece of fiction. I can like one show more than another and that's an opinion, but when you talk about it flaws/faults there's little subjectivity about that, that's just an accurate observation on what's there.
When it comes to action Champloo does it impressively, more so than in other anime like Yu Yakusho, or outlaw star or hunter x hunter or zoids. Why? It's very simple, the action is not derivative as is the case with most anime's, the action happens real time with the full perpective of the environment around it (no still images with irrational rainbow backrounds).
The animations are almost perfect, every movement is done with actual orientation in mind etc etc Is this an opinon? Maybe, but it's based on the facts of the matter, Samurai champloo's action is more visceral, better realized, more stylized and better choreographed, there's no two ways about that. That's an observation on a measurable aspect of the animes.
The creators of Champloo put more detail in their combat animations than most other animes.
You can have your opinion, but don't confuse objective analysis with an opinon based purely on preference. If Outlaw or Hunter x hunter or yu yakusho had better combat animations and choreography I would be making a case for them (on this particualr issue), but they simply don't. As for story, that can be argued, but I'm making a case for an observable and measurable factor, animation.
As for cowboy bebop, I though that with champloo Wantanbe (SP?) went a level higher with Champloo. Of course this is an opinion, but it's quite clear that Champloo had better quality per episode than did Bebop.
Originally posted by Allankles
You make a good point, except there are ways to objectively judge a piece of art. If something is shallow or drawn out or inane or unimpressive or exaggerated, that's what they are because that's what they are.Yu Yakusho objectively speaking has major flaws when perceiving it as a piece of fiction. I can like one show more than another and that's an opinion, but when you talk about it flaws/faults there's little subjectivity about that, that's just an accurate observation on what's there.
When it comes to action Champloo does it impressively, more so than in other anime like Yu Yakusho, or outlaw star or hunter x hunter or zoids. Why? It's very simple, the action is not derivative as is the case with most anime's, the action happens real time with the full perpective of the environment around it (no still images with irrational rainbow backrounds).
The animations are almost perfect, every movement is done with actual orientation in mind etc etc Is this an opinon? Maybe, but it's based on the facts of the matter, Samurai champloo's action is more visceral, better realized, more stylized and better choreographed, there's no two ways about that. That's an observation on a measurable aspect of the animes.
The creators of Champloo put more detail in their combat animations than most other animes.
You can have your opinion, but don't confuse objective analysis with an opinon based purely on preference. If Outlaw or Hunter x hunter or yu yakusho had better combat animations and choreography I would be making a case for them (on this particualr issue), but they simply don't. As for story, that can be argued, but I'm making a case for an observable and measurable factor, animation.
As for cowboy bebop, I though that with champloo Wantanbe (SP?) went a level higher with Champloo. Of course this is an opinion, but it's quite clear that Champloo had better quality per episode than did Bebop.
First of all, comparing YYH to SC in terms of action and animation is something which I would not do, because I find it rather unfare. I mean, YYH is over 10 years older than SC, so of course SC would be superior to YYH in that department, but believe it or not, animation isn't too big on my criteria for rating anime. Yu Yu Hakusho' animation was decent enough to get the job done, and that's all I really need and ask for, as long as I enjoy the story and characters, and get plenty of entertainment out of it.
Samurai Champloo was fun to watch at times, but it wasn't the most entertaining anime for me, and it wasn't able to completely draw me into its story. Let me put it this way, there are those anime which are extremely entertaining for me, and which I can watch over and over again, enjoying it just as much, or even more no matter how many times I watch it, and then there are good anime series, which are entertaining to a certain point for me, but which I wouldn't revisit or rewatch any time, soon, and which didn't compell me as much as other series. For me, Samurai Champloo is the latter of the 2, but that is only my opinion. If its only my opinion, and if I said I respect yours, then what exactly is your problem with that?