Sith Lord Revan vs Grand Master Luke

Originally posted by Darth Hord
It probably wont be easy but by comfortably I mean that he will be a somewhat tired later on and not badly injured.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Fair enough but you never responded to us again so we assumed you meant HK could take him

Originally posted by Darth Hord
So if the duel is one vs. one and there on a neutral setting (like on plains or a field for example) and no one else is around. We have to assume that most powerful win because you can't like this character will become arrogant on the verge of victory and will lose at the last second. That argument would get destroyed. Intelligence might come into play but it is usually not the deciding factor in a duel.

Whats the point of this poll lol? George Lucas says luke's the best jedi so i guess we shouldnt be debating if Revan wins or loses, it's how he loses and how long he takes to lose. Plus Revan wasn't even at his peak in the time that we was a sith lord, he became stronger after he was redeemed.
Wth, revan will lose there's no denying that but he wont lose fast, he was one of the strongest, smartest and most knowlagable person of Old Sith Wars, if Luke couldnt easily defeat someone like Desann I doubt he could defeat Revan as quickly as you guys would like to think. Probably a not too long, not too short lightsaber battle.

Originally posted by Sith Dude
Whats the point of this poll lol? George Lucas says luke's the best jedi so i guess we shouldnt be debating if Revan wins or loses, it's how he loses and how long he takes to lose. Plus Revan wasn't even at his peak in the time that we was a sith lord, he became stronger after he was redeemed.
Wth, revan will lose there's no denying that but he wont lose fast, he was one of the strongest, smartest and most knowlagable person of Old Sith Wars, if Luke couldnt easily defeat someone like Desann I doubt he could defeat Revan as quickly as you guys would like to think. Probably a not too long, not too short lightsaber battle.

NJO Luke rapes everyone when he tries to kill someone it is almost a forgone conclusion hat the person will die or at least lose the duel. As seen in the previous two legacy books and even before that.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
NJO Luke rapes everyone when he tries to kill someone it is almost a forgone conclusion hat the person will die or at least lose the duel. As seen in the previous two legacy books and even before that.

He can't annihilate everyone. He'd probably own most people and likely beat them all, but there are still a few who can challenge him.

Originally posted by Gideon
He can't annihilate everyone. He'd probably own most people and likely beat them all, but there are still a few who can challenge him.

i know for me i consider rape and own equal so its just a misunderstanding i know people can give him difficulty both the majority will most likely not.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
NJO Luke rapes everyone when he tries to kill someone it is almost a forgone conclusion hat the person will die or at least lose the duel. As seen in the previous two legacy books and even before that.

It's really ironic how you said Luke could rape anyone he tries to kill when i previously stated how he couldn't kill Desann. Also i fully agree with you, Luke is the most powerful jedi and he can beat Revan, but he will not beat one of the most powerful jedi in the kotor era so easily. Also you sort of make Luke look like a god, hes far from it and cannot easily disarm or kill a powerful jedi or sith.

Originally posted by Sith Dude
It's really ironic how you said Luke could rape anyone he tries to kill when i previously stated how he couldn't kill Desann. Also i fully agree with you, Luke is the most powerful jedi and he can beat Revan, but he will not beat one of the most powerful jedi in the kotor era so easily. Also you sort of make Luke look like a god, hes far from it and cannot easily disarm or kill a powerful jedi or sith.

Based on feats? Yes, he is quite a bit ahead of Darth Revan. Based on G-canon narrative, we already can already gauge Revan's relative prowess and skill within the continuity. The Revenge of the Sith novelization makes it explicitly clear that, by that time, Master Yoda was the "most devastatingly powerful foe [the dark side] had ever known" -- making him the de facto strongest light sider and Jedi in history up to that point -- and we know from multiple sources (tNEC, CVD, and the aforementioned novelization) that Darth Sidious possessed the strongest connection and mastery of the dark side of the Force that had been seen in history as well.

Realistically, Luke could defeat either Yoda or Sidious (at this point) rather comfortably. He might be able to defeat the both of them simultaneously (though this feat would be far from easy). NJO Luke's documented levels of prowess rank with those he performed in Dark Empire in raw skill, and then you have to calculate that he's only improved in experience and technique in the decades since. There are only a handful of individuals who are on Luke's own level of prowess, Revan isn't one of them.

He[Revan]'s "more powerful" than anyone in the PT save for Yoda and Sidious. Though Mace Windu would defeat him in a lightsaber duel, as would Anakin.

Originally posted by Sith Dude
It's really ironic how you said Luke could rape anyone he tries to kill when i previously stated how he couldn't kill Desann. Also i fully agree with you, Luke is the most powerful jedi and he can beat Revan, but he will not beat one of the most powerful jedi in the kotor era so easily. Also you sort of make Luke look like a god, hes far from it and cannot easily disarm or kill a powerful jedi or sith.

I apologized if i made him sond liek a god and cant be killed but he has done some amazing feats that can be seen godlike for even a force user such as manipulating a black hole. And the biggest problem for revan is that his saber skills are still not entirely known. Yes when know he was a saber prodigy and killed some powerful people like Malak. But the exact details is not known being that it is gameplay. And when luke fought desann he was not even at his strongest yet. And lukes power is varied based on the author such as Zhan showing him to be weaker. And luke did beat the most powerful sith lord ever de sidious in saber combat and is ahead of revan and pretty much everyone in every category in one on one fights.

Originally posted by Gideon

He[Revan]'s "more powerful" than anyone in the PT save for Yoda and Sidious. Though Mace Windu would defeat him in a lightsaber duel, as would Anakin.

He[Revan]'s "more powerful" than anyone in the PT save for Yoda and Sidious. Though Mace Windu would defeat him in a lightsaber duel, as would Anakin.

Actually, i think that Gideon pretty much stated the right place for revan's power and skill. As for OT vader, it was stated by GL himself that vader and obi's fight, in ANH, was slow and less impressive then other prequel fights since obi was out of practice/old after so many years in dantooine and that vader was simply a half men/half machine, greatly injured. Also, you have to see the fact that it was showed that maul was actually was even better then vader when they fought, when it comes to lightsaber (which i don't think too surprising to tell the true).

So, i am not saying that vader suckes with the lightsaber, it's not that, but i am pretty sure that his most powerful weapon was his force power and not the lightsaber.

Ah, and of course, Lukes owns Revan, no chance for him.

Originally posted by kamhal
Actually, i think that Gideon pretty much stated the right place for revan's power and skill. As for OT vader, it was stated by GL himself that vader and obi's fight, in ANH, was slow and less impressive then other prequel fights since obi was out of practice/old after so many years in dantooine and that vader was simply a half men/half machine, greatly injured. Also, you have to see the fact that it was showed that maul was actually was even better then vader when they fought, when it comes to lightsaber (which i don't think too surprising to tell the true).

So no, vader isnt slow, hes better than revan in saber categories, crimson empire and RODV pretty says that much.

And how was vader out of practice? He has been hunting and killing jedi over the last 19 years, he surely had improved from the last time because the idea of not doing so is absurd.

Isn't the fights in Episode V and VI not impressive because at the time they where produced it wasn't possible to make lightsaber battle like the ones we see in Episode I, II and III?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Isn't the fights in Episode V and VI not impressive because at the time they where produced it wasn't possible to make lightsaber battle like the ones we see in Episode I, II and III?

Exactly and that greatly alters they way he see vader fight in the OT compared what he can really do and most likely would have been much more impressive in saber combat if the tech. was the same

[quote]We have seen vader fight remarkably with the lightsaber in the EU, Chee stated EU speeds to not contradict what is shown in the movies.

So no, vader isnt slow, hes better than revan in saber categories, crimson empire and RODV pretty says that much.

All this can be true, yet GL himself stated that the fights were less impresive due to vader's injuries and obi's lack of practise. He could have surely have justified himself with the lack of technology, but he chose other way, so, and since GL's word>any other writer's word, this is the canon version.

And how was vader out of practice? He has been hunting and killing jedi over the last 19 years, he surely had improved from the last time because the idea of not doing so is absurd.

Did i say that vader was out of practise? In case you haven't notice i said that OBI-WAN was stated as out of practise...

Originally posted by kamhal

All this can be true, yet GL himself stated that the fights were less impresive due to vader's injuries and obi's lack of practise. He could have surely have justified himself with the lack of technology, but he chose other way, so, and since GL's word>any other writer's word, this is the canon version.

GL only said the fights are not as good in the prequels, he never hinted the fact that vader sucks, we dont see him even try in the movies, the highest form of canon depicts this.

Oh and the fight between mace and windu was around the same speed as the ROTJ and TESB duels, and we have only seen mace fight in the movies, then i guess mace, one of the best duelers in the PT, is slow.

I repeat, GL only stated vaders fights are less impressive, which are true seeing his former self is better than him. Does that mean he suck? No

Originally posted by kamhal

Did i say that vader was out of practise? In case you haven't notice i said that OBI-WAN was stated as out of practise...

I'm sorry kamhal but that does not mean he suck, If he fights so slow with obi wan, why is he even faster than his ANH self in TESB and ROTJ? Why is it stated by leeland chee and further more approved that movie speeds and EU speeds do not contradict?

GL only said the fights are not as good in the prequels, he never hinted the fact that vader sucks, we dont see him even try in the movies, the highest form of canon depicts this.

Oh and the fight between mace and windu was around the same speed as the ROTJ and TESB duels, and we have only seen mace fight in the movies, then i guess mace, one of the best duelers in the PT, is slow.

I repeat, GL only stated vaders fights are less impressive, which are true seeing his former self is better than him. Does that mean he suck? No

First, you need to learn how to read what other people write.

So, i am not saying that vader suckes with the lightsaber, it's not that, but i am pretty sure that his most powerful weapon was his force power and not the lightsaber.

This was me. So, and let's make it clear, i never said that vader sucks. What i said is that vader is not as good as some of the top duelists of prequels, for example. And you can see it by the fact that he only beat maul because once again maul was cocky and careless. Also, what i said is indeed a GL statement, which is high canon, over any EU made by other writers. So, once again i say that vader is not useless with the lightsaber, but he is not also as good as the top duelists of the prequels.

Yet er have seen obi wan fight, hmm darth krayt? Doesn't matter though, vader was not out of practise, shadows of the empire can heavily prove my point. And so would common sense, vader is assigned to kill other people and hunt down the remaining jedi, so he cannot possibly let himself get rusty, on the other hand obi wan just has to watch luke.

Damn it, READ what i WRITE. I didn't said vader was out of practise, for the third time, i said OBI-WAN was out of practise. And actually obi's fight agaisnt krayt was right before ANH? No, guess what, it was just some time after the end of the clone wars, several years before his fight against vader, and by this time is obvious that obi-wan is not out of practise...

Look, i don't know why I even have to try to explain this since it wasn't me who stated this, it was GL.

Originally posted by kamhal
First, you need to learn how to read what other people write.

Originally posted by kamhal

This was me. So, and let's make it clear, i never said that vader sucks. What i said is that vader is not as good as some of the top duelists of prequels, for example. And you can see it by the fact that he only beat maul because once again maul was cocky and careless. Also, what i said is indeed a GL statement, which is high canon, over any EU made by other writers. So, once again i say that vader is not useless with the lightsaber, but he is not also as good as the top duelists of the prequels.

And GL never stated vader sucks or he is slow, he just says as of ANH vaders dueling abilities are not as impressive as he once was, That doesnt mean vaders abilities with the lightsaber are not impressive.

Also, nothing from the EU depicting vaders ability contradicts GL or the movie because in the movies, vader does not try. Theres no debate in this, its pure common sense, We obviously dont see him try.

I guess going by "higher movie canon", the EU feats of sidious( lightning ) contradicts the movies because in the movie, we never see sidious kill anybody with lightning, nor did we see mace fighting fast and was the same speed as vader in TESB, Your point holds no water at all.

Ill repeat this for the last time, lucas only said he is less impressive than before, that doesnt mean he isnt impressive

Oh and he IS among the top duelers of the PT, behind mace and yoda under maul. Notice how easily he tools some of the jedi?

Originally posted by kamhal

Damn it, READ what i WRITE. I didn't said vader was out of practise, for the third time, i said OBI-WAN was out of practise. And actually obi's fight agaisnt krayt was right before ANH? No, guess what, it was just some time after the end of the clone wars, several years before his fight against vader, and by this time is obvious that obi-wan is not out of practise...

Firstly when maul used the juyo and his DBL, they were evenly matched until maul altered his style into jarkai which vader is unfamiliar with and nearly got killed hence he got lucky

Who got lucky, Maul? Or vader, by killing maul off guard?

And GL never stated vader sucks or he is slow, he just says as of ANH vaders dueling abilities are not as impressive as he once was, That doesnt mean vaders abilities with the lightsaber are not impressive.

Also, nothing from the EU depicting vaders ability contradicts GL or the movie because in the movies, vader does not try. Theres no debate in this, its pure common sense, We obviously dont see him try.

For the last time, I DIDN'T say that vader sucks with the lightsaber, i simply said that he was not as good as some of the top guys from the prequels, like yoda, sidious, windu, etc...

I guess going by "higher movie canon", the EU feats of sidious( lightning ) contradicts the movies because in the movie, we never see sidious kill anybody with lightning, nor did we see mace fighting fast and was the same speed as vader in TESB, Your point holds no water at all.

No? Then how windu was killed? Besides, sidious only tried force lightning against windu and yoda, 2 of the strongest force users of his time and ever... And even then only yoda survived. And why have I do justify an statement that is not mine after all?

Ill repeat this for the last time, lucas only said he is less impressive than before, that doesnt mean he isnt impressive

Oh and he IS among the top duelers of the PT, behind mace and yoda under maul. Notice how easily he tools some of the jedi?

Really? Hmm, but if i am wrong anakin only beat dooku "in teh zone", at his "regular" skill he was more or less even with dooku, which would mean that vader owuld be weaker then dooku with the lightsaber. Anakin also lost to obi-wan in ROTS by the way. So, no, he is not even in top 3 of the prequels, so is he great? Yes. Is he one of the very best? No.

Originally posted by kamhal
Who got lucky, Maul? Or vader, by killing maul off guard?

Originally posted by kamhal

For the last time, I DIDN'T say that vader sucks with the lightsaber, i simply said that he was not as good as some of the top guys from the prequels, like yoda, sidious, windu, etc...

Originally posted by kamhal

No? Then how windu was killed?

Originally posted by kamhal

Besides, sidious only tried force lightning against windu and yoda, 2 of the strongest force users of his time and ever... And even then only yoda survived. And why have I do justify an statement that is not mine after all?

Not that im trying to argue with you on this one but make a point

Originally posted by kamhal

Really? Hmm, but if i am wrong anakin only beat dooku "in teh zone", at his "regular" skill he was more or less even with dooku,

Originally posted by kamhal

which would mean that vader owuld be weaker then dooku with the lightsaber.

They did it to vader, yet they still get tooled

Originally posted by kamhal

Anakin also lost to obi-wan in ROTS by the way.

Originally posted by kamhal

So, no, he is not even in top 3 of the prequels, so is he great? Yes. Is he one of the very best? No.

Luke wins a fair fight. How many fights are fair though? For all practical purposes, Revan wins. Luke allows himself to be taken by surprise too easily. He lets his guard down. Oh sure, he doesn't loose when he fights. But he doesn't think very well until then.