Sith Lord Revan vs Grand Master Luke

Originally posted by MaxWham
Hello again. First of all I’ve seen numerous forums where ppl laughed at the fact that some can put Sidious or Yoda on the level of Revan, so this is not an argument, ok.
So, I will begin with all this canon as you say. First how Anakin and Skywalkers can be chosen ones if it is known that they were just a product of Plagues/Sidious experiments? Second how DE can be canon if Emperor stayed alive and balance wasn’t brought by the chosen one? And please don’t tell me that Luke was one,

wait for it...

Originally posted by MaxWham

cos Anakin is a chosen one according to Lucas.

...and BAM. Don't aim for your foot next time. Way to render your first paragraph pointless.

Originally posted by MaxWham

If you are talking about quotes from the books and that they somehow not only praise their characters but indicate that Yoda and Luke= the most Jedi ever, then I can tell you that Revan is somewhere beyond being just a sith or jedi, cos all the facts about him make Revan the winning candidate for Sith’ari,

Bane is the most likely with Sidious behind him, and even that's a bit of a stretch in some ways. Revan's not even in the running.

Originally posted by MaxWham

and please don’t show that you are complete idiots by arguing here.
1: He was free of all restrictions using the dark power, without being its slave, like Vader or Sidious (and yes they were toys in the hands of the dark side, craving for power and destruction, while Revan still had a glorious purpose), and according to Kreia wasn’t restricted by “Sides” at all, being capable of using both(and on much bigger scale then Kyle Katarn or Mace Windu).

Except his actions were the cause of galaxy wide suffering all for his "glorious" vision. However noble his reasons were, Revan did fall, certainly he did not become Malak in his ruthlessness, but he fell like all others. Sidious on the other hand has been stated to have been the only man to "tame the dark side".

Originally posted by MaxWham

2. He destroyed the sith with Malak in command and then Bane found his holocron which lead to creation of the Rule of Two, using which Vader and Sidious destroyed Jedi and ruled the galaxy.

Seeing as how the sith were still a major power not 5 years after malak, he hardly destroyed them. what's more he may have inspired the rule of two, but it was not he who put it into action, nor even originated the whole concept. Kas'im was also important in it's creation

Originally posted by MaxWham

Now about Sidious and how great he was. Yes he corrupted the senate and had a great political power, after 30 years of activity, still he achieved his final goals only due to those clones that were programmed to establish Order 66.

and he did all this while within arms reach of a jedi beyond even revan's power. A jedi who had an order of some of the most powerful jedi to ever exist behind him. Revan was up against a crippled republic and broken order, Exar Kun and the mandolorians did half the work for him (please note, I don't mean to diminish revan's accomplishments, just trying to put things in perspective)

Originally posted by MaxWham

While Revan, when he was about 16-17 y.o. (in his Revanchist period) was able to corrupt about half of all jedi order(the most bright and young ones), and how many jedi Sidious corrupted, let me guess 3 right???. And he didn’t destroy Mandalorians only because of Mass Shadow Generator, he himself killed Mandalor on his flagship, so don’t be stupid.

...none of that is relevant in any way...I don't think. Unless you're suggesting that he can corrupt luke somehow

Originally posted by MaxWham

And Canderous is a great evidence of Revans genius on the field of the battle, cos he saw the whole war. And was Sidious or Luke great military tacticians?? Hell no!!! Relying on Thrawn and other admirals.

No one on this board has ever thought Luke or Sidious were better tacticians, but unless they challange him to a game of battleship, his tactical abilities won't do him squat in a fight.

P.S, Sidious doesn't need to be a better tactician anyway, not when he can wipe fleets out by himself.

Originally posted by MaxWham

Also about so called manipulating abilities: Revan was able to use a Force technique to rip Rakatan language from their minds, driving Basic into their skulls in turn. I think that Palpy could only dream of such ability.

no, "Palpy" instead went with having a presence in the dark side powerful enough to blind Jedi to his true nature, even when they were sitting right in front of him. Also, Palpatine once mindraped thousands of people on courecent (dunno about spelling there) when he buried a star destroyer and then mindwiped everyone who saw it.

Originally posted by MaxWham

like Star Forge, or ships like Ravager (Nihilus) or sucking out the whole planet’s population (Exar Kun or Nihilus again)or holding pieces of one’s body together only by your will (Sion) is more impressive, than some puke in the skies that you can’t even control. And believe me according to Kotor 2 Nihilus would humiliate Sidious Luke and Yoda at a time.

And once again, you're full of bull. First off, Sidious has sucked the life out of a whole planet, and him wiping out a fleet>holding one ship together. and sion's ability is impressive, but not necessarily powerful, simply obscure and unique.

Originally posted by MaxWham

But again is this soooo hard to admit that in each period of Star Wars there were enormously powerful personalities that shaped the galaxy according to their will?! They were like manifestations of the force, its avatars. And in new republic it was Anakin/Luke, and in old one it was Revan… admit it already. Also Revan and Anakin share lots of same characteristics, also being a complete antipodes in their tempers.

...do you have Alzheimer's? You seem to have forgotten what you said earlier about Revan being perfect, cause now you're comparing him to Anakin who's a perfect example of a failed Jedi and the lure of the darkside.

Originally posted by MaxWham

Now I’d like to answer to this ignorant moron (sorry, but you really are), that continue to say that Jedi in the movies are much stronger that those in Kotor. In Kotor jedi order was a real power, with the fate of the Galaxy on its shoulders, who were honored with deep respect, and were fighting with evil mostly every day.
And those jedies in the movies were weakened by non-conflict existence, most of their time they were doing nothing but sitting in their tower and talking about fate of the galaxy, they were despised feared and misunderstood by people. In Kotor era Jedi were on their prime and in the movies on the verge of their extinction. And saying that they had more knowledge is also indication of your movie era fanboism, cos after First Jedi Purge almost all Jedi were destroyed and tons of knowledge were lost. And those movie era Jedi were only a shadow of their former prime, scavenging the pieces of knowledge they used to have…. And this is not my personal opinion, it was told numerous times in Kotor advertisements…

Just give it up. Lucas himself has stated that the movie jedi was the golden age of the jedi. what's more, there was indeed a jedi purge, but this doesn't mean all was lost. the temple at courecant (sp?) may have been abandoned, but it's in the galactic capital, it wouldn't have been raided like the temple at dantooine. Also, the jedi had 4000 years to make up for lost knowledge, if it was lost in the first place. They weren't the sith you know, it's not like the jedi would have horded the knowledge to themselves.

*slaps self*

why'd I even waste the time...

Nicely done

Originally posted by Pwned61
why'd I even waste the time...

Revan is NOT the sithari I really would like to see Nebaris tool with his pro Bane argument.

Wow mega ownage. This idiot really has no clue how to debate, hell i'm starting to praise nebaris seeing that he is (and i honestly mean it) far more intelligent than this lunatic.

Its no wonder this maxWham is a dumbass, he comes from lucasmorons.com, a place where filled with alot of stupid fanboys save for a few members i respect.

This guy is as stupid as that idiot jedimasterJambi from that site as well.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Wow mega ownage

Well done indeed, just that sidious mind wiped more than hundres and thousands of people on coruscant, possibly even millions considering how densely populated the city is.

I wouldn't say they are all stupid on lucasforums the consensus is over there now seems to be Nihilus beats Revan. Even the people who have admitted to be fanboys are realizing it.

Well you do know that idiot admin roguenine right? He and a few others deserve the title stupid dumbass of the year 2008. Just take a look at his arguement when i argued with him, and he banned me after wtf owning him in a debate.

Wow, those dumbass' over at stupidrevanfanboys.com need to be shot for excessive use of extreme stupidity.

It's funny how they contradict themselves time and time again in their piss poor excuse of arguments saying 'R3v4n iz t3h Ub4R!11!1!!' all the time.

I hate to admit this, but they're even worse than N00baris(Though not by much, I assure you).

You a really just a bunch of psychic idiots!!! Bane maybe is a good candidate for Sith’ari, but Sidious???!!!? You are fuc…ing mad moron! Where it is stated, that he destroyed the sith??? And where it is sated, that Bane was out of all restrictions in the force? The galaxy suffered Revans glorious vision only because it was necessary, the Jedi were too weak to fight with the True Sith, and so they were useless to him, he never destroyed civilians !!! And he didn’t fall, *******, cos his aim was to save the Galaxy and not to destroy and rule it! Lol then you show yourself to be a real dumbass!!! Revan did destroy Sith, and they were not Malak’s armada, but those “ True Sith ”, idiot 🙂).

A jedi beyond Revan’s power?? Are you joking kiddo?? Grievous killed 3 of those “Greatest Jedi”, who were masters, and he was just a droid, who received a little lightsaber fighting expertise!!!

Oh Sidious could wipe out fleets?? So why he used this only as his “last chance” weapon?? And was killed by his own BIG GREAT Force Storm….. twice…. He was very stuped I guess, not only a veeery bad tactician. And stop lying here, look what I’ve just found “Not knowing all of the details surrounding the burial, some New Republic observers later speculated that either all the witnesses to this event had been executed, or that Emperor Palpatine had used the Force on a massive scale to command everyone to forget what they saw”… Who is owned here, ha??

And another crap about perfect non perfect, DON’T TWIST MY WORDS!!! I meant, that they both (Revan and Anakin) were the strongest in the force at their time, were great engineers and built exceptional droids, also they both were genius swoop riders.

And a golden age doesn’t mean Jedi to be the strongest, Lucas meant that it was Golden time because there was relative peace and there were no Sith activities for a long time… Don’t forget that Malachor 5, one of the greatest monuments of Sith power was destroyed, shortly after Revan learnt all the knowledge which was contained in Trayus Academy … Also Jedi Council was destroyed on Dantooine. So don’t be a retard imbecile’s as you seem to be, cos its you who cant debate at all…
P.S. Oh and stop this shit, talking about the “fact”, that jedi in the movies are da great, and all other just suck. Do you remember Ulic Qel-Droma? Exar Kun? Nomi Sunrider, for god’s sake !!!! Who had the potential your pathetic green goblin could only dream of!!!! She easily blocked Ulic’s connection to the force!! Why your Yoda didn’t do it with Dooku, then??

P.P.S And Ivalice, SHUT UP ALREADY YOU DIRTY ***!!!! Unless you will really have some info/arguments instead of insults to post…

Oh another moron.. grow up already City s...t Hunter ... Or use this thread to post smth usefull and not stuped insults...

stupidrevanfanboys.com

I'd like to see this place, what's the real URL?

grow up already City s...t Hunter ... Or use this thread to post smth usefull and not stuped insults...

Anyone else find this amusing?

Oh and there is no such thing as " Golden Age of the Jedi " you must have mixed it up with: "The Golden Age of the Old Republic was a term referring to the period of time that began with the Ruusan Reformation of 1,000 BBY and was still used as of 312 BBY. Supreme Chancellor Tarsus Valorum was seen as the architect of the Golden Age. It was marked by the reign of Corellia's Berethron e Solo and the use of the Med'soto style style of architecture". Moron as always..... P.S. Nothing amusing I was not the first who started it...

Originally posted by MaxWham
You a really just a bunch of psychic idiots!!! Bane maybe is a good candidate for Sith’ari, but Sidious???!!!?

Who said anything about Sidious being the sithari. To be even considered the sithari you would have to destroy the sith and sidious didn't. IF you want to discuss this make a new thread for it. There is more than enough to put Sidious ahead of Revan. If you want to discuss than make a separate thread.

he galaxy suffered Revans glorious vision only because it was necessary, the Jedi were too weak to fight with the True Sith, and so they were useless to him, he never destroyed civilians !!! And he didn’t fall, *******, cos his aim was to save the Galaxy and not to destroy and rule it! Lol then you show yourself to be a real dumbass!!! Revan did destroy Sith,

Revan did destroy Sith, and they were not Malak’s armada, but those “ True Sith ”

Right than what do you call Darth Traya,Visas, Darth Sion, Darth Nihilus and the sith assasins ,etc. that were still around after the battle of the star forge? Proof that Revan did this? Nothing has been stated so it makes you look like fool to say Revan did defeat the true sith because for all you know Revan died and the exile was the one who defeated the. We don't know yet what happened so arguing that Revan did this at this point in time makes you look like an idiot.

A jedi beyond Revan’s power?? Are you joking kiddo?? Grievous killed 3 of those “Greatest Jedi”, who were masters, and he was just a droid, who received a little lightsaber fighting expertise!!!

Yoda>Revan and you forgot to mention that he was trained by Dooku who was the best makashi duelist ever. And again Yoda was called the most devastingly powerful foe the darkness HAD EVER KNOWN in the ROTS novel which came out about a year AFTER Kreia called Revan the hear of the force. Further more Grievous was trained in all the forms of lightsaber combat and was said to even imitate Vapaad. So try again.

Sidious could wipe out fleets?? So why he used this only as his “last chance” weapon?? And was killed by his own BIG GREAT Force Storm….. twice….

He got killed by it because Luke,Leia and the unborn Anakin cut him off from the force and he lost control of it. Get your facts straight he died once to the force storm,once by Vader though his spirit survived and one by being shot in the back by Han then he tried to get his spirit into baby Anakin's body then dieing Empatojayos Brand stepped in front of the baby so Sidious's spirit died when he died very shortly. For someone who uses wookieepedia for his only source I suggest you at least read the character bios.

And another crap about perfect non perfect, DON’T TWIST MY WORDS!!! I meant, that they both (Revan and Anakin) were the strongest in the force at their time, were great engineers and built exceptional droids, also they both were genius swoop riders.

Half right Anakin was never the best force user or saber user of his time. Yoda,Mace,Sidious and maybe Dooku (in the force only) were greater than him. Have you watched ROTS then you would know that Sidious says soon my apprentice will be more powerful than either of us implying that Yoda and Sidious are still his superiors.

P.S. Oh and stop this shit, talking about the “fact”, that jedi in the movies are da great, and all other just suck. Do you remember Ulic Qel-Droma? Exar Kun? Nomi Sunrider, for god’s sake !!!! Who had the potential your pathetic green goblin could only dream of!!!! She easily blocked Ulic’s connection to the force!! Why your Yoda didn’t do it with Dooku, then??

Do you reads my post because I have acknowledged there were other great jedi and sith and even mentioned Kun who is one of my favorites ever. And Yoda didn't know the technique. And before you say it, Nomi CAN'T use it on Yoda,it only works on darksiders not lightsiders are not affected by it and Kun was also not affected by the wall of light technique by Odan who more experience than Nomi so a more powerful darksider can even counter it. Plus Yoda had hoped that as Dooku's former master he could redeem him and thus in affect of Dooku being redeemed he could lead them to Sidious who's identity was unknown at this point. and And I have never said that all other jedi or sith suck. In fact most of my favorite characters(Kun,Revan,Caedus,Canderous, etc.) are from not from the movie period.

So thanks for playing and better luck next time Jr. 😉

And I think it is time that we stopped bashing other forums despite what you make think of it and its users. It does make us look bad and I know Rex isn't too thrilled of it.

Originally posted by MaxWham

Oh another moron.. grow up already City s...t Hunter ... Or use this thread to post smth usefull and not stuped insults... [/B]

I don't need to grow up, though, obviously, you do, considering you fail to look at the CANON facts that have already been shown and told countless times, aswell as your atrocious use of grammar. Sidious is the best Sith, Lucas says it, NEC says it, canon says it, facts says it.

Now get hit by the 8-ton bus of reality and shut the hell up already you stupid ass n00b.

BTW, it's 'useful' and 'stupid', not 'usefull' and 'stuped'. Dumbass🙄...

Maybe I am an idiot, but you are making lots of very vital mistakes, arguing with me. 1: I wrote that Anakin was the strongest in the force, not POWERFUL! Can you read? His force potential surpassed Yoda’s, in midi-chlorian count! 2: Palpatine died more than 3 times… 3: Dooku being the greatest duelist (makashi) doesn’t proof anything, cos Grievous still was only an enhanced droid (with living brains and guts however) and it doesn’t depend on Dookus skill, and this greatest duelist was slain by Anakin, who was not the most powerful saber user, so you have no logic here. And if Grievous was so trained, why he was so easily defeated by Obi-Wan? Who wasn’t considered to be strong enough even to become a Master? And again you can’t compare words about chars written in books and heard in games or movies, they use an absolutely different styles of plot presentation. But due to the fact that it is your only proof… 4: The last but not least here…. Kun WAS affected by the Wall of Light, cos after jedi casted it his spirit was locked in Yavin 4.

P.S. Especially for such stupid asses like City Hobo Hunter: Luke and Sidious have never been called greatest EVER, but greatest of their time….

Originally posted by MaxWham
Maybe I am an idiot, but you are making lots of very vital mistakes, arguing with me. 1: I wrote that Anakin was the strongest in the force, not POWERFUL! Can you read? His force potential surpassed Yoda’s, in midi-chlorian count!

He was not the strongest tin the force hence sidious's comment to yoda, hence why sidious was the most powerful sith lord ever by now and yoda was the strongest jedi ever. Read canon moron. He had the most potential yes but he never achieved it.

2: Palpatine died more than 3 times…

3: Dooku being the greatest duelist (makashi) doesn’t proof anything, cos Grievous still was only an enhanced droid (with living brains and guts however) and it doesn’t depend on Dookus skill, and this greatest duelist was slain by Anakin, who was not the most powerful saber user, so you have no logic here. And if Grievous was so trained, why he was so easily defeated by Obi-Wan? Who wasn’t considered to be strong enough even to become a Master?

And again you can’t compare words about chars written in books and heard in games or movies, they use an absolutely different styles of plot presentation.

WRONG

: The last but not least here…. Kun WAS affected by the Wall of Light, cos after jedi casted it his spirit was locked in Yavin 4.

I look forward to hearing from you soon slick. 😉

Originally posted by MaxWham
P.S. Especially for such stupid asses like City Hobo Hunter: Luke and Sidious have never been called greatest EVER, but greatest of their time….

Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:-"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

Empire's End, one of the Sith spirits: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give him what he wishes." _sith spirit in empires end.

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: "No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine."

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: "Palpatine at his peak."

Essential Chronology: "the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave."

"...Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."
- Page 84 of The New Essential Chronology

Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting."
-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72

The dark side energies flowing through Palpatine's body were so intense, that they ravaged his mortal frame. The very source of Palpatine's strength was killing him.
- Databank Palpatine

The Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane, only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strengths of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge."

-- Darkside Sourcebook, Chapter Five: Dark Side Traditions, Page 85.

Credited to Publius.

"The most powerful of these" refers to the Sith Lords of the Sith Order, descending from Darth Bane. To suggest that it refers only to Darth Sidious and Darth Maul requires a certain level of willful ignorance of the English language. If Sidious and Maul are the only Sith Lords being described, then they would have also spent the previous thousand years watching and waiting. This is a highly dubious contention.

The Dark Side Sourcebook does not attribute the ability to conjure Force storms to the Imperial Sith. The ability "Summon Storms" refers strictly to meteorological phenomena, and is attributed to generic dark side witches and to the Nightsisters Gethzerion and Tamith Kai. Vague citations such as "the sourcebooks" are hardly fit for serious discourse. If no specific citation is offered in support of a claim, that claim does not merit consideration.

Although Imperial Sith are noted for their longevity, their parochialism makes them significantly less impressive. A Jen'ari of the Sith Empire may well have ruled for hundreds of years on end, but he ruled only a few hundred primitive worlds in the galactic periphery, far from any potential rivals (The Dark Side Sourcebook even points out that Marka Ragnos "believed the Sith were not yet ready to enter into a protracted war with the forces of the Republic"; The Fall of the Sith Empire shows clearly that these 'enormously powerful' Sith Lords were defeated by the Republic). In contrast, Darth Sidious seized control of the vast majority of the galaxy, and built up an extraordinarily powerful galactic superpower that ruled billions of worlds (The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, Second Edition - Revised and Expanded). He orchestrated the complete destruction of the Jedi Order, which out-numbered his Sith Order by a factor of roughly 5,000 to 1. Judging by political standards, Palpatine was vastly more powerful than any of his potential rivals.

In terms of preternatural abilities, the only way to compare them is to judge them by their deeds. Simus was able to survive as a disembodied head for 100 years (The Golden Age of the Sith); Palpatine was able to survive complete corporeal destruction and travel thousands of light years from Endor to Kaal (Return of the Jedi, "The Emperor's Pawns," Dark Empire Sourcebook). The ancient Sith Lords developed a means of allowing their ghosts to possess the bodies of the living via having their hosts lay in custom-made sarcophagi ("The Sith Compendium"😉; Palpatine possessed the body of Jeng Droga completely unaided ("The Kaal Connection," "The Emperor's Pawns"😉, repeatedly reincarnated in the bodies of clones, also unaided (Dark Empire, Dark Empire II), and was very likely able to possess the body of Anakin Solo unaided (Empire's End).

As noted earlier, Palpatine was struck squarely on the head by a ton of machinery, and shrugged it off (Dark Empire, Star Wars Handbook Vol. 3: Dark Empire). He was capable of moving so quickly that the eye could not track him (Episode I Journal: Darth Maul). He created a hyperspace wormhole and projected a Force storm from Byss to Coruscant, and displayed sufficient fine control to physically translate Skywalker from the planet's surface to the hold of a Lictor dungeon ship (Dark Empire). In a matter of seconds he summoned a Force storm and destroyed at least five capital ships, and accidentally destroyed two Star Destroyers and a Super Star Destroyer when he lost his concentration (Dark Empire). He was able to feel immediate danger to Darth Vader on Mustafar in the Outer Rim while still on Coruscant (Revenge of the Sith), and could communicate telepathically over vast interstellar distances ("Sleight of Hand: The Tale of Mara Jade"😉.

There is a distinct difference between the Sith Lords of the Sith Empire (e.g., Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, and Ludo Kressh) and the Sith Lords of the Sith Order (e.g., Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, and Darth Tyranus)."Taken by Force" (Star Wars Galaxy Magazine #8 specifically notes the following:

quote:
Get one thing straight: The dark side of the Force and Sith magic are not interchangeable, and the comics have made a firm distinction between the two. "The Sith and their abilities were hinted at in Tales of the Jedi and Kevin J. Anderson's Jedi Academy trilogy," Cooper says. "There was a connection with Exar Kun, who was Force-adept and had a strong will to seek out Sith knowledge. Kun added his knowledge of Sith magic to his arsenal of weapons."

The most impressive feats of the Imperial Sith -- such as Naga Sadow's cruiser causing major stellar catastrophes -- were wholly dependent on the use of artifacts and talismans (hence the ease with which Exar Kun was able to master Sithian magic, to say nothing of completely unskilled practitioners like Satal Keto, Aleema, and the Krath). They were invariably seen wearing such magical accouterments. Any given display of preternatural abilities is tainted by the fact that the Sith Lords were actively using Sithian magic, which required no effort at all to use (The Freedon Nadd Uprising).

It is worth pointing out that although Sidious is not known to have used any such arcana when performing his own feats of Force mastery, he was exceptionally well-versed on dark side lore and was a known master of Sith magic (the Dark Empire Sourcebook notes that he had long ago mastered the knowledge of the Krath, who were strictly Sith magicians). He was an accomplished alchemist and is known to have been in possession of a number of ancient Sithian artifacts, as well as having traveled to several of the 'holy sites' of the Imperial Sith (Drommund Kaas, Vorzyd V, Yavin IV, Ziost, and Korriban). He was familiar with their methods -- and generally did not use them.

It is not enough to merely assert superiority and then expect to be disproven. One has an obligation to provide evidence to support one's claims. There is no reason to believe that an of the Imperial Sith were more powerful than Darth Sidious. If one is to claim otherwise, one is of course required to provide clear evidence. If specifically comparing physical abilities, then one must be able to cite discrete incidents.

Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure. Defeated,

---Star wars databank Yoda.

Although the modern era of the Sith is attributed to Darth Bane, and the Dark Jedi that preceded him,- From the star wars databank the sith e.u. section.

He is the most powerful practitioner of the Sith ways in modern times-From the star wars databank,palpatine eu section

You were saying?

A little more from Publius

Hextrophon’s belief is confirmed by The Dark Side Sourcebook, which remarks that the Galactic Emperor “had succeeded where
all others failed in taming the Dark Side." He would journey across the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the
stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.” Like everything else in the Imperial system, the Imperial
military/naval complex has its own role in the Apotheosis of Palpatine. Once he had become a sort of God-Emperor – it would
become the task of the Imperial forces, in the shape of the World Devastators, to extend his all-encompassing rule to other galaxies,
as well. In its final form, the Galactic Empire – or, more correctly, the Galactic Emperor – would be a sort of mystical,
expansionist organism; ironically, the result of the Empire’s increasing totalitarianism would be anarchy, as the concept of the state
would be rendered wholly obsolescent by the apotheosized Galactic Emperor. In the face of an immortal enemy imbued with vast
preternatural abilities, able to foresee the future and in possession of colossal engines of destruction capable of self-repair and
adaptation, one might very well conclude that resistance would in fact be futile.

Originally posted by MaxWham

P.S. Especially for such stupid asses like City Hobo Hunter: Luke and Sidious have never been called greatest EVER, but greatest of their time….

Okay then, where have we seen ANY Jedi from ANY time do what Luke has(Which I assure you, Revan has NOTHING on)? Oh, that's right, NOONE HAS! Therefore, until canon says otherwise, Luke, from what we've been shown he has been able to do, is the most powerful Jedi ever. And considering he could hold his own against Palpatine in DE, who even in his TPM, AOTC and ROTS forms, was considered the most powerful Sith ever, I'd say that alone puts him above any other Jedi before him.

Now stop your mindless, bitchy rants and go back to wet Revan Fanboy Dream, fool.

to Elite Hunter:
Ok man I really respect your words now… But Revan as Sith was on par with Exar or Ragnos, at least… And he became much more powerful after he was redeemed, yes? So… 1: He wasn’t sith lord in general, so words about Sidious as the greatest sith lord can’t prove anything here. 2: Sidious became so powerful only after he was reborn in his cloned body, and even when Sidious wasn’t in his prime and possibly weakened by Windu, Yoda lost…

P.S. believe me guys when Lucas Arts will suck as much money as possible using Skywalkers, they will begin expanding Kotor lore( which have already begun with Kotor comics series), and then after some books will be written and comics made about Revan... Palpy will become a weakling 🙂.