Darth Malak vs. Darth Vader

Originally posted by Gideon
At the rate you're heading, that isn't going to happen. I make it a personal habit to remind you of the KotoR era's inferiority every time you attempt to exaggerate its greatness; that's how it's always going to be until you accept it and move on.

Originally posted by Gideon
Malak's command of Force lightning was exceptional? I would appreciate the source. Furthermore, substantiate exceptional.

An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies. (DSSB)

Malak have demonstrated several Force skills like: Force Lightning, Chain Lightning, Force Whirlwind, Force Choke, Drain Force, TK based Saber attacks and Stasis Field.

- He used Force Whirlwind to overcome Revan on Leviathan.
- He could Force Stun several opponents simultaneously.
- He could Force Choke a couple of Jedi simultaneously.
- He could throw Light Saber at great precision towards his target from long distances and the Light Saber after striking would return to him.
- He was a master practitioner of Force Lightning and could also perform Chain Lightning.
- He could use Drain Force on his opponents in combat and we all know that what this technique does.

Originally posted by Gideon
Obi-Wan Kenobi was able to repel Force lightning from Count Dooku -- who was, according to G-canon one of the very most powerful Jedi Masters in the Jedi Order's twenty-five thousand year history and an even stronger Sith Lord -- with just his lightsaber, and without too much difficulty. Vader, who is physically stronger than Kenobi and stronger in the Force, would suddenly be destroyed by someone inferior to Dooku? Doubt it.

Originally posted by Gideon
I could just as well say that Vader will crush Malak's lightsaber and do the same to his windpipe.

Oh yes, because not only is force whirlwind a canon ability of Malak's, but Malak should be able to use his force abilities on ANY force user, nevermind the fact that the better the force user, the more of a defense he has to force techniques. While Malak has force lightning, Vader has demonstrated mastery of the force superior to Malak. With your logic, Vader should be able to force choke Malak from a distance, or force crush him.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh yes, because not only is force whirlwind a canon ability of Malak's, but Malak should be able to use his force abilities on ANY force user, nevermind the fact that the better the force user, the more of a defense he has to force techniques. While Malak has force lightning, Vader has demonstrated mastery of the force superior to Malak. With your logic, Vader should be able to force choke Malak from a distance, or force crush him.

Then Vader can also overcome Malak through his devastating Force Crush in close combat situations. Force Crush is indeed among the deadliest applications of the Force. Though he won't be able to Force Choke Malak from light years away.

Yet Vader's shown more mastery of the force than Malak. Force choking someone from hundreds of light years away is incredible.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yet Vader's shown more mastery of the force than Malak. Force choking someone from hundreds of light years away is incredible.

What Vader did was indeed very impressive. I do acknowledge the fact that OT Vader's Force mastery was indeed exceptional. I never argued against it.

However read this:

Malak was Force Choking two "Jedi Knights" simultaneously in one of his fights against them in the KOTOR. Now that was also surely impressive.

So? He was more powerful than the Jedi Knights. I don't consider Nadd's ability all that impressive considering he was on Korriban and enveloped in the dark side. Although, Nadd is a powerhouse.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So? He was more powerful than the Jedi Knights.

Vader was then far more powerful then that imperial officer he choked.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I don't consider Nadd's ability all that impressive considering he was on Korriban and enveloped in the dark side. Although, Nadd is a powerhouse.

First of all, Malak was empowered by the death star, so it wasn't as impressive as you make it out to be, and those jedi knights were nothing.. Vader force choked someone from hundreds of light years away..

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
[B]First of all, Malak was empowered by the death star, /B]

You mean the star forge 😉

I don't know what I'm smoking

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
First of all, Malak was empowered by the death star, so it wasn't as impressive as you make it out to be, and those jedi knights were nothing.. Vader force choked someone from hundreds of light years away..

Care to explain to me that how Malak was being empowered by the Star Forge at that point when he was facing those two Jedi?

The Star Forge was not helping him to overcome those Jedi. It was his own feat.

And by the way, a Jedi Knight is a far superior combatant then an Imperial or Republic officer. And a Jedi Knight possesses much more advanced defensive abilities that can help him withstand Force attacks.

Malak was facing two simultaneously and he managed to Force Choke them both with a flick of his hand.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nice way to downplay a feat.

Care to explain to me that how Malak was being empowered by the Star Forge at that point when he was facing those two Jedi?

The Star Forge was not helping him to overcome those Jedi. It was his own feat.

And by the way, a Jedi Knight is a far superior combatant then an Imperial or Republic officer. And a Jedi Knight possesses much more advanced defensive abilities that can help him withstand Force attacks.

Malak was facing two simultaneously and he managed to Force Choke them both with a flick of his hand.

Downplay? How is that downplaying? Malak's abilities increased to an incredible level while on the star forge, this is fact. How are you going to claim that it was his own feat? I can claim that he had more mastery over the force with less concentration while being on something that is a tool of the darkside.
Nobody cares if a Jedi knight is superior to a non force user. Look at Fett. However, this is all irrelevant. Vader force choking someone from across the galaxy is more impressive than Malak force choking two jedi knights on the star forge.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Downplay? How is that downplaying? Malak's abilities increased to an incredible level while on the star forge, this is fact. How are you going to claim that it was his own feat? I can claim that he had more mastery over the force with less concentration while being on something that is a tool of the darkside.

Only Bastilla Shan was directly aided by the Star Forge during her clash with Revan.

Now before you come up with more argument, I shall remind you that Malak's Force attacks were highly effective even in those places where dark side was not strong.

Take a look at the case of Malak's fight on Leviathan.

He instantly Force stunned both Bastilla and Carth simultaneously so that they won't interfere in his duel with Revan.

He then managed to overcome Revan twice during his duel with him on that ship through his Force Mastery and was about to defeat him until Bastilla made her move.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Nobody cares if a Jedi knight is superior to a non force user. Look at Fett. However, this is all irrelevant. Vader force choking someone from across the galaxy is more impressive than Malak force choking two jedi knights on the star forge.

Vader force choked a non-force user who had got no chance to defend against a Force attack.

Malak on the other hand was Force choking two Jedi Knights simultaneously without any external help. They could defend against Force attacks but Malak was too strong for even two of them to handle.

Um the star forge did aid Malak by allowing to drain atleast one of the captured jedi to replenish him and gives him the jedi's power which was corrupted by the star forge. And Revan's power at the time on the leviathan can't be judge too well in the first place and the same goes for Bastilla.

I try to keep my judgments as nuetral as possible and I acknowledge greatness of both eras and also acknowledge the fact that the technology of the PT period was indeed superior.

If I might borrow a common phrase from Advent, I lol'd. Based on your rather notorious exploits, you fail to keep anything neutral or bias free when you compare KotoR to any era. So, I bring it upon myself to remind you. The PT age was not only superior in technology, but in importance and power as well. The KotoR age? It was inferior. Accept it and move on.

Sure!

An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies. (DSSB)

How nice. A G-canon source -- higher than the Dark Side Sourcebook boasts about Count Dooku's prowess in a greater fashion.

Malak have demonstrated several Force skills like: Force Lightning, Chain Lightning, Force Whirlwind, Force Choke, Drain Force, TK based Saber attacks and Stasis Field.

Again, good for Malak. Nevermind the fact that you're labelling attacks from a video game thus making it seem much more impressive, he's still not held in as high of esteem as Count Dooku.

- He used Force Whirlwind to overcome Revan on Leviathan.

You mean the same Darth Revan that -- according to you -- pwned him later on despite greater odds? Pathetic, you attempt to use double standards. It doesn't work. This Revan had no access to his memories or former level of experience and skill.

- He could Force Stun several opponents simultaneously.

Yup, and Dooku brought Asajj to her knees by lifting a finger. Asajj Ventress who, by merit and achievement, would manhandle the majority of KotoR Jedi and Sith.

- He could Force Choke a couple of Jedi simultaneously.

...Which makes him superior to Vader or Dooku how? Substantiate how powerful these Jedi are. Zannah telekinetically broke the necks of two Jedi in a fit of rage before she became Bane's apprentice. By your logic, she'd WTFpwnannhilate Malak.

- He could throw Light Saber at great precision towards his target from long distances and the Light Saber after striking would return to him.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha. You mean a typical saberthrow that Luke as of RotJ can do? Not impressed, LeGenD.

- He was a master practitioner of Force Lightning and could also perform Chain Lightning.

And Dooku pwned Sora Bulq with Force lightning while dueling with another Jedi Master. Sora Bulq who nearly mastered Vaapad and was regarded as Dooku's most formidable acolyte (for a time).

- He could use Drain Force on his opponents in combat and we all know that what this technique does.

And yet it didn't help him against Revan or

Malak being inferior to Dooku in the Force? Doubt it!

Bullshit logic, once more. Are you like a vending machine of suck-ass arguments? "Malak being inferior to Dooku in the Force? Doubt it!" is not an argument. Dooku is held in higher regard. Period. The source that boasts about his power is higher than the one regarding Malak. Period. Dooku is regarded -- verbatim -- as "one of the very best [Jedi] ever"
and "an even greater" Sith Lord. That's more than you can provide for Malak. Period.

Raise. Your. Game. Or. Don't. Bother. Continuing.

And what is stopping Malak from using a Force Whirlwind to trap Vader inside and then crush him through his lethal Force Lightning strikes?

Being weaker in the Force. 🙂

where did vader exactly choke some one lightyears away?

Originally posted by Gideon
How nice. A G-canon source -- higher than the Dark Side Sourcebook boasts about Count Dooku's prowess in a greater fashion.

Originally posted by Gideon
Again, good for Malak. Nevermind the fact that you're labelling attacks from a video game thus making it seem much more impressive, he's still not held in as high of esteem as Count Dooku.

Originally posted by Gideon
You mean the same Darth Revan that -- according to you -- pwned him later on despite greater odds? Pathetic, you attempt to use double standards. It doesn't work. This Revan had no access to his memories or former level of experience and skill.

Can you prove to me that Revan was very weak when he faced Malak on Leviathan? He was actually re-trained by the Dantooine Jedi Order so that he would become ready to face tough challenges again. And couple this with his smartness, he was still a good fighter with great Raw strength.

And he did managed to overpower Malak during the first phase of his duel with him but Malak suddenly generated a powerful Force Whirlwind to stop him.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yup, and Dooku brought Asajj to her knees by lifting a finger. Asajj Ventress who, by merit and achievement, would manhandle the majority of KotoR Jedi and Sith.

Originally posted by Gideon
...Which makes him superior to Vader or Dooku how? Substantiate how powerful these Jedi are. Zannah telekinetically broke the necks of two Jedi in a fit of rage before she became Bane's apprentice. By your logic, she'd WTFpwnannhilate Malak.

Originally posted by Gideon
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha. You mean a typical saberthrow that Luke as of RotJ can do? Not impressed, LeGenD.

Originally posted by Gideon
And Dooku pwned Sora Bulq with Force lightning while dueling with another Jedi Master. Sora Bulq who nearly mastered Vaapad and was regarded as Dooku's most formidable acolyte (for a time).

Now Sora Bulq did not managed to stop the Lightning attack and it shows that how good he really was. I can say that even AOTC Obi-Wan is better then him then because he did managed to block Dooku's Lightning with his Light Saber.

Originally posted by Gideon
And yet it didn't help him against Revan or

Now prove to me that Dooku can defend against Drain Force attacks.

Originally posted by Gideon
Bullshit logic, once more. Are you like a vending machine of suck-ass arguments? "Malak being inferior to Dooku in the Force? Doubt it!" is not an argument. Dooku is held in higher regard. Period. The source that boasts about his power is higher than the one regarding Malak. Period. Dooku is regarded -- verbatim -- as "one of the very best [Jedi] ever"
and "an even greater" Sith Lord. That's more than you can provide for Malak. Period.

And when Dooku will demonstrate feats like Drain Force, Force Whirlwind and Stasis Field and Force Choke two jedi simultaneously, then come talk to me.

Originally posted by Gideon
Being weaker in the Force. 🙂

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Where in a G-Canon source it is stated that Dooku is superior to Malak?

Can you prove to me that Revan was very weak when he faced Malak on Leviathan? He was actually re-trained by the Dantooine Jedi Order so that he would become ready to face tough challenges again. And couple this with his smartness, he was still a good fighter with great Raw strength.

And he did managed to overpower Malak during the first phase of his duel with him but Malak suddenly generated a powerful Force Whirlwind to stop him.

Malak's Force choke capabilities are indeed impressive. Force Choking two Jedi Knights simultaneously is not a matter of joke.

OT Vader did that and it decimated an entire object with the single blow. Now imagine a Light Saber hitting you in that manner and then tearing your flesh apart. Sounds not very funny.

And Malak also did pwned a Jedi Knight with his Lightning.

Now prove to me that Dooku can defend against Drain Force attacks.

You and some others keep Dooku in higher regard but not all. No where Dooku have been compared to Malak in terms of power.

And when Dooku will demonstrate feats like Drain Force, Force Whirlwind and Stasis Field and Force Choke two jedi simultaneously, then come talk to me.

can some one answer my question

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Where did Escape even state this? Why are you twisting his words around? He said that the sources speak greater of Dooku than they do of Malak. Now I am one to argue that Malak is superior to Dooku in force usage, but that's a whole different debate

Canon sources have verbally fellated Darth Bandon more then Malak but that does not means that Darth Bandon was better then him.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Why would he need to prove Revan was weak? Do you understand the rules of debate? Shouldn't it be you who proves Revan was strong?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Gameplay mechanics are not canon..

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Nor does it make him a force god.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I guess you missed ROTJ when Vader chucked his lightsaber in Luke's direction.

Malak managed to kill a Jedi Knight instantly by using a similar technique too.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I don't think you understand the concept of proof or burden of proof, honestly.

It is his job to prove to me that Dooku can withstand Drain Force attacks. Just because Revan managed to do so, it does not mean that Dooku can also do so.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Why would he? One is basically EU, while the other is Star Wars. Why would they be compared anywhere? Make a point or stop typing.

Now it shows that how good Sora Bulq really was, if he got pwned by Dooku's Lightning.

A canon event is a canon event regardless of it taking place in EU or movies.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
When you learn to differentiate between canon abilities and gameplay mechanics, people will take you more seriously. And your logic of "Oh he performed feat X and the other guy didn't so he wins", is hilarious. I can just as easily say "when Malak has the ability to force choke someone from the other side of the galaxy, come back and talk to me". See how that makes no sense? Probably not.