Actually we don't get to see enough TK abilities of any character in KOTOR game. You can blame it on poor game mechanics, so we can't say for sure that Malak had poor TK abilities.
But since Malak was also strong in the Force and his Force mastery was indeed good, it can be safely assumed that he too could perform decent Telekinetic Force moves. Though OT Vader might be slightly better in this regard but I do not know for sure.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDDo you have a better source than gameplay mechanics? Because i myself might as well use gameplay mechanics with the likes of ANH obi wan, sidious and vader whom can easily annihilate 100 rebel soldiers or storm troopers while destroy an entire building with relative ease in empire at war.You have got a better source to indicate Malak's power then please refer it to me.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDAnd whats your point? A lightsaber always kills a victim when you throw it/hit him.I said that OT Vader threw his Light Saber towards the direction of his son but it hit an object and it got destroyed. It shows that TK based Light Saber attacks can be very dangerous.
Malak managed to kill a Jedi Knight instantly by using a similar technique too.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDAnd its not like vader cant block it with a lightsaber, Mara jade whom is inferior to vader could block jorus c boaths lightning attack with her lightsaber whom is a master of force lightning
So his Lightning attacks can be lethal too.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDIts you who needs to find a better source as your always so fond of preaching how powerful malak is without backing it up with a reliable source. Your using gameplay mechanics as you yourself admitted
I am using the only two sources available that talk about or show Malak's abilities. You have got a better source to use then please refer it to me.
Oh i forgot, going by how you use gameplay to back your sources up, it takes several hits with a lightsaber for malak to actually kill revan when in fact it only takes a stroke of the lightsaber to cleave some one in half
Find a reliable source other than gameplay which is highly ambiguous and non canon.THEN come and debate. Seriously im sick and tired of your kotor fanboyism
ROTS Vader
1. Vader
2. Malak
3. Vader
OT VADER
1. Tough one to call, although he isn't as good as he was in ROTS, OT Vader is also one of the best swordsman eve, but Malak was good to.
2. Vader- Mastered the Force to the higher degree then Malak, studied under the most powerful Sith Lord ever for 20 years, but Malak has a chance of victory, because of Lightning.
3. Vader, better Force powers, can hold his own in a saber fight(if not win), smarter fighter...
Can Vader block Lightning with his hands?, Dooku blocked his, when Yoda returned it back and Vaders Force mastery is higher then Dookus.
They block Lightning with their hands, but are using the Force, or would Vader get zapped anyway.
Originally posted by darthsith19Couldnt he dissipate the lightning with the force? I mean that force dissipate technique shouldnt be beyond his abilities considering that he is very strong in the force and been studying it for a long time.
He might be able to, but I'd guess no. Cause think about it, Dooku and Sidious shot lightning with their hands, but are using the Force, but Vader would get zapped anyway. Same thing, I believe.
Shadow of the empire novel did state that vader can use the force to shield him from blaster bolts but im not sure if that can block force based lightning because blocking X doesnt mean you can block Y
Originally posted by Manslayer
Do you have a better source than gameplay mechanics? Because i myself might as well use gameplay mechanics with the likes of ANH obi wan, sidious and vader whom can easily annihilate 100 rebel soldiers or storm troopers while destroy an entire building with relative ease in empire at war.
I have mentioned those Force feats of Malak that he have demonstrated in cutscenes in KOTOR. Now those Force feats are 100% canon.
Originally posted by Manslayer
And whats your point? A lightsaber always kills a victim when you throw it/hit him.
Originally posted by Manslayer
And its not like vader cant block it with a lightsaber, Mara jade whom is inferior to vader could block jorus c boaths lightning attack with her lightsaber whom is a master of force lightning
Originally posted by Manslayer
Its you who needs to find a better source as your always so fond of preaching how powerful malak is without backing it up with a reliable source. Your using gameplay mechanics as you yourself admitted
We are talking about a character whose powers and feats have been described or shown in two sources yet:
1) KOTOR
2) DSSB
When some more sources will be available. Then we will use them.
Originally posted by Manslayer
Oh i forgot, going by how you use gameplay to back your sources up, it takes several hits with a lightsaber for malak to actually kill revan when in fact it only takes a stroke of the lightsaber to cleave some one in half
Originally posted by Manslayer
Find a reliable source other than gameplay which is highly ambiguous and non canon.THEN come and debate. Seriously im sick and tired of your kotor fanboyism
It is a matter of my personal choice, if I debate for any particular SW character in this forum. You will have to deal with it or stop responding to my posts.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDThose force feats were based of gameplay mechanics, really there is no attack such as "force whirlwind".
What gameplay mechanics?I have mentioned those Force feats of Malak that he have demonstrated in cutscenes in KOTOR. Now those Force feats are 100% canon.
Its a gameplay mechanic term
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDRight like vader cant do the same, so what if he can throw his saber in great precision? Its a typical saber throw where even bastila could do
That's a plus point for Malak. He can throw Light Saber with great precision towards his targets.
That will leave malak exposed to vaders force attacks. And its easy enough to just get out of range.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDAnd its not like vader *doesnt* have a lightsaber to block out his lightning which AOTC obi wan was able to do to dookus lightning whom was described as one of the orders most powerful.
OT Vader does not have a pure living body. His mechanical body parts are still vulnerable. And it is not necessary that Malak will always target his Lightning towards same spot towards Vader. He can look forward to exploit any signs of vulnerabilities during duels.
We have seen mara jade, some one inferior to vader blocking jorus, some one who has mastered lightning to a very high degree block his lightning with slightly more effort than what AOTC obi wan did.
Vader can die from malaks lightning? Malak himself will get crushed the moment vader executes his telekenetic crush attack which wtf pwnd a super thick steel door and annihilated a medical room by just lashing out with his anger.
He will do even more damage if he uses it as a technique
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDOk iv seen this one but seriously? Your going to take what? A few of malaks feats and dispute that he has better force mastery and strength in the force than vader? Keep trying
We are talking about a character whose powers and feats have been described or shown in two sources yet:1) KOTOR
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDYou HAVE used pure gameplay mechanics before legend and if i recall correctly you have recently.
Now this is what I would term as using pure gameplay mechanics in debates.
"Zomg! Nihilus absorbed exiles force attacks! few force powers worked!" And you gave me a link to that video which turned out to be pure gameplay
"ZOMG! Vrook was hard to kill! So it means he is very p0wd3rf00l!!!!! becuz g@m3 pl@y !$ teh Onlay w@y to D3t3rM!ne H!$ $tr3ngth!!!!!"
Right, which is why i find you very unreliable when it comes to debates. I have serious doubts in what you claim because
1) You exaggerate immensely
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDLol "major" impact it is, your very right legend, He killed a jedi with a lightsaber, big deal
You need to understand the difference between pure gameplay mechanics and Malak's Force feats that he demonstrated during cutscenes, in which his Force powers seem to make a major impact on his foes like they should.
And he killed a dying jedi with lightning, the one struck by his lightning was already having his life squeezed out of him and by observing the way he tries to move: he has no fighting spirit left at all and theres also the fact that the jedi he killed was weak, Nothing indicates him of being anywhere half as strong as bulter swan in the force
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDFixedIt is not a matter of my personal choice, if I debate for any particular kotor character in this forum. You, Darth sexy and gideon will have to respond to my posts.
Originally posted by Manslayer
Those force feats were based of gameplay mechanics, really there is no attack such as "force whirlwind".Its a gameplay mechanic term
DSSB lists Force Whirlwind as a Force feat of Malak.
Originally posted by Manslayer
Right like vader cant do the same, so what if he can throw his saber in great precision?
Originally posted by Manslayer
Its a typical saber throw where even bastila could do
Originally posted by Manslayer
That will leave malak exposed to vaders force attacks. And its easy enough to just get out of range.
Originally posted by Manslayer
And its not like vader *doesnt* have a lightsaber to block out his lightning which AOTC obi wan was able to do to dookus lightning whom was described as one of the orders most powerful.
Originally posted by Manslayer
Vader can die from malaks lightning?
Originally posted by Manslayer
Malak himself will get crushed the moment vader executes his telekenetic crush attack which wtf pwnd a super thick steel door and annihilated a medical room by just lashing out with his anger.
Originally posted by Manslayer
Ok iv seen this one but seriously? Your going to take what? A few of malaks feats and dispute that he has better force mastery and strength in the force than vader? Keep trying
Originally posted by Manslayer
You HAVE used pure gameplay mechanics before legend and if i recall correctly you have recently.
Originally posted by Manslayer
Right, which is why i find you very unreliable when it comes to debates. I have serious doubts in what you claim because
You fail to realize that both Malak and Vader can kill each other. It is not that Vader will always win and same can be said about Malak.
Originally posted by Manslayer
Lol "major" impact it is, your very right legend, He killed a jedi with a lightsaber, big deal
Originally posted by Manslayer
And he killed a dying jedi with lightning, the one struck by his lightning was already having his life squeezed out of him and by observing the way he tries to move: he has no fighting spirit left at all and theres also the fact that the jedi he killed was weak, Nothing indicates him of being anywhere half as strong as bulter swan in the force
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDI concede this point
Really?DSSB lists Force Whirlwind as a Force feat of Malak.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDAny one can
OT Vader can also do it. I do know this.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDLOL and ROTJ luke whom isnt that great with the force being inferior to both vader and malak evaded vaders saber throw.
And Malak managed to counter it, which was also [b]impressive/
[/B]
Not impressive seeing inferior jedi do it easily. If i recall malak actually got hit but it merely scarred his arm. Thats simply because bastila has got nothing to show with the lightsaber
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDRight you forgot how agile vader is even in his current state
It's more easy for Malak to do so because he is not a cyborg.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDYou seem to forget vaders precognition. It wouldnt be so easy to merely distract him because roan shryne attempted to do the same thing i believe but in the end failed. Just that he tried to shut up vaders control box manually.
Indeed he can do so. But like I said before, it depends upon the circumstances as well. If Malak manages to distract Vader, then he can take advantage of that distraction and use his Lightning on him.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDActually it isnt the mechanical part on his limbs, its the machine which helps him breathe which will shut down when he gets struck by lightning.
OT Vader will surely die from Malak's Lightning if he gets hit by it. His mechanical body is what makes him vulnerable.
Malak too will surely die when he gets struck by one of vaders telekenetic attacks. Now if that stupid website swtimeline.ru isnt down, id be more than happy to post scans which shows that vaders telekenesis attacks are impressive and surpasses that of malak.
For one he flung tark effortlessly , a cyborg up 30-60 feet into the air and caused a massive dent in the interior of the star destroyer avenger.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDTo be honest in a pure force fight timing is critical. Vader doesnt have his lightsaber and if malak wins the pure force fight, it is only due to his lightning.
Vader can ovecome Malak through his Force Crush ability. I have already acknowledged this.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDVaders strength and mastery of the force > malaks. So, just because malak knows X and vader doesnt means malak can even compete with vader?
He knows some techniques that Vader does not. Then Vader also knows some techniques that Malak does not. Though Malak can compete with the likes of OT Vader and Dooku in the Force.
Sad to tell you, before you ramble that malaks force whirlwind is so almighty and will place vader in danger, vader has the force wave technique which in many instances can be even more dangerous than a force whirl wind technique and he has demonstrated this technique shortly after the battle of yavin when he crash landed on a planet
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDUh one sided? I acknowledged the fact that malak can kill him in a pure force fight provided he strikes with lightning first.
And I find you very unreliable when it comes to the subject of OT Vader because you always use one-sided points regarding him.
[yoda]One sided am i? No, Short sided are you? Yes! [yoda]
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDTrue true but the odds of vader winning are greater than malaks given his force strength, lightsaber skill, battle tactics, intelligence and mastery of the force
You fail to realize that both Malak and Vader can kill each other. It is not that Vader will always win and same can be said about Malak.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDAnd it is relevant how? A lightsaber always kills its victims when you know how to use it
I am indeed right regarding my assertion.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDRight what ever they were, they were already dying by the time he got them in a choke hold. Besides they had to go through several dark jedi, soldiers and droids to get to malak and by the time they got there,
That is your assumption. If Malak wanted to kill them through the Force Choke, he would have done so. He did not had to use his others techniques on them.
It is safe to assume they lost they energy and stamina which severely affects their performance
Originally posted by Manslayer
Any one can
Originally posted by Manslayer
LOL and ROTJ luke whom isnt that great with the force being inferior to both vader and malak evaded vaders saber throw.
Originally posted by Manslayer
Not impressive seeing inferior jedi do it easily. If i recall malak actually got hit but it merely scarred his arm. Thats simply because bastila has got nothing to show with the lightsaber
Originally posted by Manslayer
Right you forgot how agile vader is even in his current state
Originally posted by Manslayer
You seem to forget vaders precognition. It wouldnt be so easy to merely distract him because roan shryne attempted to do the same thing i believe but in the end failed. Just that he tried to shut up vaders control box manually.
Originally posted by Manslayer
Actually it isnt the mechanical part on his limbs, its the machine which helps him breathe which will shut down when he gets struck by lightning.
Originally posted by Manslayer
Malak too will surely die when he gets struck by one of vaders telekenetic attacks. Now if that stupid website swtimeline.ru isnt down, id be more than happy to post scans which shows that vaders telekenesis attacks are impressive and surpasses that of malak.
Originally posted by Manslayer
For one he flung tark effortlessly , a cyborg up 30-60 feet into the air and caused a massive dent in the interior of the star destroyer avenger.
Originally posted by Manslayer
To be honest in a pure force fight timing is critical. Vader doesnt have his lightsaber and if malak wins the pure force fight, it is only due to his lightning.
Originally posted by Manslayer
Vaders strength and mastery of the force > malaks. So, just because malak knows X and vader doesnt means malak can even compete with vader?
Originally posted by Manslayer
Sad to tell you, before you ramble that malaks force whirlwind is so almighty and will place vader in danger, vader has the force wave technique which in many instances can be even more dangerous than a force whirl wind technique and he has demonstrated this technique shortly after the battle of yavin when he crash landed on a planet
Originally posted by Manslayer
Uh one sided? I acknowledged the fact that malak can kill him in a pure force fight provided he strikes with lightning first.
Originally posted by Manslayer
True true but the odds of vader winning are greater than malaks given his force strength, lightsaber skill, battle tactics, intelligence and mastery of the force
Originally posted by Manslayer
And it is relevant how? A lightsaber always kills its victims when you know how to use it
Originally posted by Manslayer
Right what ever they were, they were already dying by the time he got them in a choke hold. Besides they had to go through several dark jedi, soldiers and droids to get to malak and by the time they got there,
Originally posted by Manslayer
It is safe to assume they lost they energy and stamina which severely affects their performance
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDRight and vader surpasses malak in that seeing that vader is an even better dueler
Yes! But the level of precision and speed is determined by the level of control exhibited on that action by the particular person.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDBecause luke moved. So can vader, so can anybody for that matter
The Light Saber never hit Luke.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDShe couldnt harm malak or any powerhouse for that matter
Bastilla has got nothing to show with the Light Saber is an under-statement. She was not an idiot.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDDoesnt mean vader *cant* evade it
He is far less agile as half-machine. Malak however have no such restrictions.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDAnd i am going to refute that. By the way do you even have any proof that malaks precognitive abilities are even on the level of vaders?
And you think that Malak lacks precognitive abilities? Vader's precognition is not infallible. He can make mistakes too.
Heres something to hand you your ass claiming vader will make mistakes despite his level in precognition. When has malak ever demonstrated precognition? Right, never. Assume all you want because it is all speculation.
This is backed up by the omniscient narrator
Time and again the two jedi knights attempted to alter their style, but vader had an answer for every lunge. His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest,most dangerous levels, his moves were crisp and unpredictable.
In addition, his remarkable foresight allowed him to anticipate Forte's and kulka's strategies and maneuvers.
Source RODV, Vaders precognition is alot greater than malaks, its been proven, accept it and move on legend, and before you claim vader will make mistakes. Just what is there to even indicate that he will make mistakes against somebody who is a dangerous opponent?
Do you have anything to back it up? Or are you speculating.... as usual.
[i]Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDYou seem to forget vaders holding a lightsaber, Iv handed your ass to you about this issue several time. And i shall keep repeating myself
And that will be the end of him.
We have seen mara jade, some one inferior to vader blocking jorus, some one who has mastered lightning to a very high degree block his lightning with slightly more effort than what AOTC obi wan did.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDCan you prove that he can defend against a killing force crush? Did he even demonstrate creating a shield around him to block out force attacks?
And Malak cannot deflect or counter Force moves, right?
Or are you attempting and planning to speculate that malak will automatically counter vaders moves? Because if you are trying to do that, i can say the very same thing that vader will counter all of malaks techniques
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDThis is true
I agree that in a pure Force fight, timing is indeed critical.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDBad analogy, Knowing a couple of techniques more than your opponent doesnt make you greater or equal to some one who has tremendous strength in the force, has higher mastery and greater proficiency in the force.
Malak knows some techniques that Vader does not, so that makes them even.
I might as well dispute dark side bastila > darth tyranus because she knows BM, force stun and a couple of other force powers that dooku doesnt know.
Very very bad analogy legend , Then i guess the night sisters in dathomir would be more powerful or prehaps equal to vader because they know force lightning and force drain which vader doesnt know.
I also guess it means plo koon is equal or greater than vader because he knows lightside lightning and vader doesnt.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDDid i say they are the same? Ok so what, big deal that whirlwind twirls you around and leaves you exposed, Force wave can blow you back even as far as 50-100 feet and break every bone in your body as vader did to some thug who harrased him when he was looking for a jedi with boba fett.
Force Whirlwind is different from Force Wave. It works like a voilent rotating wind around you and will cause distraction long enough for Malak to take advantage.
Even if the wave doesnt manage to break your bones when you fall back on something, you will get dazed out and take a few mere seconds to recover which will give vader the opportunity he needs to execute his force crush which is instantaneous and devastating.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDYour actually wrong in one part. Theres enough evidence to put vader as a greater dueler than malak. And it occurs to me just about every body agreed in this thread vaders the better dueler
You should note that Malak is more agile and will duel more effectively with a Light Saber then the OT Vader.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDSo does any jedi, sith or force adept.
Malak knows how to use it.
"Malak knows how to use it" doesnt mean shit especially when every force user knows how to use it
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDYes they were, the one getting choked.
They were not dying but were struggling to get free from Malak's Force Choke but could not do so.
Observe him and you will notice he is gasping for air and when you go w/o oxygen for a time being, you lose conciousness and thus lowers your resistence and defence thus allowing your opponent to gain the upper hand
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDDoesnt mean they havnt lost most of their strength by the time they reached malak. Oh and who knows, malak could have got a hold of them even before they replenish themselves
They could use the Force to replenish themselves. That is one benefit for being a Force User.
The way i see it, Malak would win. CBA to list the reasons why
a. Vader would win in a saber fight
b. Malak has a lot more abilities than vader has ever posessed
c. It would be close, but i think Malak has enough stamina and strength to last longer in battle than Vader.
Now Anakin Skywalker? Thats a different story, he would own Malak.
Originally posted by willmanYour clearly wrong here, posessing a technique or 2 more than your opponent doesnt mean your better than he is. Especially when vader has higher strength in the force and has much greater control and mastery of the force as he demonstrated numerous time through out his life
The way i see it, Malak would win. CBA to list the reasons whyb. Malak has a lot more abilities than vader has ever posessed
Darth sexy even mentioned that vader was able to choke some one light years away
Originally posted by willmanNo, given vaders strength and mastery, malak will go down after a hard fight.
c. It would be close, but i think Malak has enough stamina and strength to last longer in battle than Vader.Now Anakin Skywalker? Thats a different story, he would own Malak.
Anakin would own malak in a duel but in a force fight malak beats him.
Flip back a few pages and you will realise the majority stated vaders the winner and along with that a cogent arguement