Originally posted by lightness
ok lets see1.dante was running down the building and accelerating himself.
2. i already know seph toyed around with cloud, and it doesn't change the fact that he lost multiple times. vergil was looking bored when he was fighting dante the first time and pretty much toying.
if you can toy with someone and still win, it's impressive. when you do and lose, it's not that much to be happy about.
3. you can hear sounds in ac, as well as see their swords clash. and being able to teleport all around>jumping around in speed. the fact that their swords were so fast that they formed a dome and they were pretty much extended beyond normal lengths shows that it was faster.
4. vergil killed beowulf effortlessly without touching him after he gave dante problems.
So he can't move that fast them, he's using gravity to accelerate himself
Don't underestimate Omnislash, Sephiroth only loses because of this.
Vergil was not toying with Dante, If need be i'll ask Charlotte, she's the Dante expert.
Stop embarressing yourself, Sephiroth is so obviously faster than Vergil with a blade. How you can not see that is unbelievable.
Sephiroth killed creatures that would have took out entire crack team units without even trying.
Originally posted by Remindme
So he can't move that fast them, he's using gravity to accelerate himselfDon't underestimate Omnislash, Sephiroth only loses because of this.
Vergil was not toying with Dante, If need be i'll ask Charlotte, she's the Dante expert.
Stop embarressing yourself, Sephiroth is so obviously faster than Vergil with a blade. How you can not see that is unbelievable.
Sephiroth killed creatures that would have took out entire crack team units without even trying.
and the blade wasn't using gravity to accelerate itself too and he was obviously running
you stop embarassing yourself and show prof instead of downplaying vergil. Charlotte isn't always right either.
cutting buildings=power, not speed. omnislash didn't exactly look like a fast attack, it was just a lot of fast slashes. while vergil just slashes once to slash things a thousand times.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Theres never been any illusion attacks in FFVII, the summon isnt realistic because it is done in gameplay, like small cactus creatures surviving huge bahamut blasts, or Titan lifting and flipping thin air when the battle isn't on ground, or Neo Bahamut elevating a chunk of land, then disintegrating it, and then that land reappearing and getting disintegrated again when summoned again
realistically, nothing hints seph can survive if he really summons a meteor that can destroys the earth. unless he really can just make it reappear(what ever the reason is for other things reappearing).
Blade that i presume is sharp is going to cut through air.....
I trust Charlotte because she can admit when your favourite characters are beat.
Proof? fine
Your turn to prove Vergil is faster, I expect videos.
Because they slowed it down for us, anyone can tell you that. Show me that then, prove it to me, i will not take your word for it.
Have u even watched the full AC CLoud vs Sephiroth fight?
YouTube video
Look at about 2:10 when they are swinging at eachother Seph is parrying attacking at 2 swords, without even breaking a sweat, and each one of those slashes would bring down buildings
In kingdom hearts hes teleporting around everywhere
In FFVII he teleports and appears outta no where
Sephiroth is fast ok?
Originally posted by lightness
realistically, nothing hints seph can survive if he really summons a meteor that can destroys the earth. unless he really can just make it reappear(what ever the reason is for other things reappearing).
Summons have a strange way of never hurting wutever summoned it, anyway Meteor was never going to destroy earth, it was just going to severely damage it.
At the end of the second video, you can't even see Sephiroth cut Genesis, thats how fast he can be
Kingdom Hearts 2
YouTube video
Kingdom Hearts 1
YouTube video
kh gameplay vids werent really impressive(kh tends to slower gameplay with less gravity). watch some of vergil 3 fights.
cloud's not capable of cutting down building's with every swing. just his occasional power swings. afighting with 2 swords probably makes it harder to control/power, which is probably why he fights with 1 usually and takes them appart for variety(advantages and disadvantages)
dante cut his office in 1/2 in the manga with a casual swing so he can bring down buildings. and he can fight vergil with the wind/fire swords.
you want more feats showing vergil's superiority in speed, he can duel weild with the yamato and force edge easily, and switch between his different weapons in the middle of combinations with no slowdown awhile still attacking with telekinetic swords.(watch some expert gameplay combos)
and he can still float like seph if you count nero angelo, in dmc1.
Originally posted by lightness
kh gameplay vids werent really impressive(kh tends to slower gameplay with less gravity). watch some of vergil 3 fights.cloud's not capable of cutting down building's with every swing. just his occasional power swings. afighting with 2 swords probably makes it harder to control/power, which is probably why he fights with 1 usually and takes them appart for variety(advantages and disadvantages)
dante cut his office in 1/2 in the manga with a casual swing so he can bring down buildings. and he can fight vergil with the wind/fire swords.
you want more feats showing vergil's superiority in speed, he can duel weild with the yamato and force edge easily, and switch between his different weapons in the middle of combinations with no slowdown awhile still attacking with telekinetic swords.(watch some expert gameplay combos)
and he can still float like seph if you count nero angelo, in dmc1.
Cut in the half?
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Whenever Dante sees dreams on panel, it's always nightmares. But those nightmares show us some of his origin... for example, how he was separated from his brother and how his mother was killed by demons. Dante sometimes hates himself for the fact that he was "too weak" at that time to save his mom from being killed(that's why he shose the path of the warrior and demon hunter).
Note- this is manga, so scans should be read from the right to the left.
I don't think that's exactly "cutting in the half", though yes, decent damage...
In Nero Angelo form Vergil was shown flying on supersonic speeds, even in human form he and his brother are fast enough to literally play tennis with bullets.
Not to mention Vergil mastered combat teleportation...though I gave evidences of Vergil's speed to Remindme.
Vergil wasn't really toying with Dante in their first fight, he's not THAT superior to him... it's just Dante coming into fight without attitude...he wasn't ready to fight his long lost brother to death. He lacked attitude and willingness to go all out (and also partially an ability to go all out since awakening of the demon in him happened after that fight and that lost).
Though if we trust Dante's origin depicted in canon comics/manga, in the childhood Vergil was better swordsman than his brother though eventually Dante mastered much more weapons, but Vergil for most part was devoted to swords. He's an expert in swords and to defeat him Dante really needs to go all out.
Next...running speed. Vergil sees running as "not noble" activity, so he has no running speed feats (though he's fast enough to keep up with his not-so-traditional brother in combat). Instead, he mastered combat teleportation (Dante isn't paying much attention to that teleporting power).
Now, videos.
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBelDante's first fight with Vergil on top on Temen-Ni-Gri tower where Vergil (a halfdemon himself and a little better swordsman than his brother (though when Dante gets serious and fights with determination to win, Vergil eventually loses)) seriously wounds Dante, thus awakening his demonic power. The brothers literally play tennis with bullets (bullets get deflected\cut in midair), as well as fight so fast that they slash raindrops around them.
YouTube videoAfter that fight Dante desides to pursuit his bro. First he destroys a column with a Kenshiro-style punch ,making it explode from inside (though he uses his demonic energy instead of regular chi), then he runs down the wall demonstrating great agility, skills, smart fighting, as well as his best running feat in human form (runs faster than a speeding bullet in human form, probably at Max2-3 as air around him starts burning because of friction). In the end he almost flies... and gets swallowed by demonic flying whale Leviathan, so he has to travel through the behemoth's body from his stomach to his heart and kill him from inside.
YouTube video
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel[B]Dante vs Nero Angelo
Dante fights his twin brother, who was corrupted by Mundus and turned into dark demonic knight and a faithful captain of his army. Vergil forgot his human part and calls himself only Nero Angelo (Nelo is a common mistranslation due to the whole r-l issue in Japanese). He's a powerful demon, but eventually gets defeated by his brother who frees his soul. After "freeing" Vergil from his sad fate Dante finally gets Perfect Amulet.
YouTube video
YouTube video
YouTube video
YouTube video
YouTube video [/B]
Here you can see how good Vergil is as a teleporter, as well as him flying on supersonic speed.
Vergil PWNS Beowulf
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Note- Dante allows Beowulf to live, but turns out that he lives only to be killed by Vergil, who becomes the first owner of Beowulf weapon.
http://www.devils-lair.org/cutscenes/dmc3/low/38%20-%20M12%20-%20Gauntlets%20of%20Light.avi
Gameplay examples of Vergil's combat teleportation ability
http://www.devils-lair.org/tourney/Marty-Darkslayer.wmv
Vergil's Sword Hanging ability (he's able to use his summoned swords for pseudo-TK)
http://www.devils-lair.org/movies/tutorial/broly2012-Vergil_Sword_Hanging_Tutorial.wmv
Originally posted by lightness
and the blade wasn't using gravity to accelerate itself too and he was obviously runningyou stop embarassing yourself and show prof instead of downplaying vergil. Charlotte isn't always right either.
cutting buildings=power, not speed. omnislash didn't exactly look like a fast attack, it was just a lot of fast slashes. while vergil just slashes once to slash things a thousand times.
Agree with you. He RUNS down the tower since by just falling he obviously can't move faster than a speeding bullet or in that case sword accelerated with a speeding bullet, neither the air around you starts burning from friction when you simply fall down.
It's running feat without any doubt.
Also the blade wasn't just going to cut through the air (and if it comes to high speeds, air friction plays major role- notice the sword turning red hot because of it after it was speeded up with the bullet). The air just seems immaterial, but it has density and that's the reason of the whole friction issue. The air friction in lower layers of atmosphere also actually SLOWS objects down, on high speeds (more than Max1) they start burning because of friction (which we can see in the video). That feat also shows us how durable and sharp demonic swords are (the blade goes through a few demonic birds without losing speed).
Vergil's and Dante's demonically forged swords are also said to cut through anything (at least they cut through stone wall casually like it's nothing).
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
The swords forged by demons are said to be able to cut through almost anything on the human plane of reality. Here Dante proves that, effortlessly cutting an "entrance" in the stone wall of the castle on Mallet Island which was built as Mundus sanctuary. Though the castle itself is enchanted and shapeshifting and the wall "heals" immediately after Dante gets inside the castle.Back at his office Dante uses that wonderful quality of his sword by using the wall as a sword sheath.
Provided scans are from CANON DMC1 comics.
thx char. is the dmc1 comic canon(havent read it). dmc3 manga is supposedly canon from what they say, and capcom added a scene based on it in se.
i think vergil was toying from my impression, he looked bored when deflecting bullets back and he could have dt'd easily if he wanted to.
vergil's teleportation in dmc3 is more speed boost based on what the manual said. nero angelo truly teleports since he dissapears into smoke and reappears.
dante catching his sword was clearly teleporting speed while running downwards, since they slowed it down so you can see how he catches his sword, and the bullet hitting it.
Originally posted by lightness
thx char. is the dmc1 comic canon(havent read it). dmc3 manga is supposedly canon from what they say, and capcom added a scene based on it in se.i think vergil was toying from my impression, he looked bored when deflecting bullets back and he could have dt'd easily if he wanted to.
vergil's teleportation in dmc3 is more speed boost based on what the manual said. nero angelo truly teleports since he dissapears into smoke and reappears.
dante catching his sword was clearly teleporting speed while running downwards, since they slowed it down so you can see how he catches his sword, and the bullet hitting it.
Smoke isn't the necessary attribute for teleportation. Just visual effect...Not any teleportation is Nightcrawler's-like.
There's no such thing as teleporting speed. There's just speedup to the point it looks like teleportation (the "teleports" of great deal of KOF characters, for example, are merely such speedups- like K's Blackout). Those are easy to tell from true teleportation because of afterimages in the middle. But that's just a speedup to the point beyond human perception.
Dante has both speedups (Dash, Wall Hike and Sky Star) to supersonic speed and one true combat teleportation move (Air Trick) in his trickster style.
Vergil, on the other hand, relies on combat teleportation for evasive moves instead of running. He mastered that a lot better than his brother and as Nero Angelo he demonstrated the mastery not only in combat teleportation, but in travelling one.
DMC1 comics by Dreamwave were Capcom-approved "comics adaptation" of DMC storyline. Though the last issue was never released and the series were unfinished (just like DMC3 manga).
