Emma Frost v.s. Storm

Originally posted by ddsmrt
Emma's power work at the speed of thought ok but don't you think since storm is alot smarter than emma see can think faster and act on her thoughts. But storm doesn't even have to think for her powers to react she is truely one with her powers just by her being a slight piss natural reacts so I say storm all the way

Umm, no I'd say that Storm would have to think first before sending a lightning bolt or something high powered Emma's way, but if her mood was not so bright then i guess thunder and black clouds at most.

This battle comes down to who can think quicker.

**FI**

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I honestly don't know what you're trying to prove. Emma has shut down minds with a mere thought before.

http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/2473/telepathy5ot.jpg

Notice that they're seven other people in this room, she was caught by suprise and she still managed to specifically pin point the part of their brains that controls movement.

Sigh...that's not with a thought, seeing that Wolverine was able to say something and even wave his hand. Something as fast as a thought would have frozen Wolverine before he could even respond.

Also, how can Emma be caught by surprise if she a telepath?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I have another scan where she gives an entire crowd orgasms in an instant. Again she pin points each of the specific part of their minds with a thought. (There are may 30+ people in the crowd).

Sigh again, that not that fast. The guy was in the middle of sentence when she stopped him. That's plenty of time for a telepath of Emma's level to control a group of non-psi trained people (Xavier's done it before). While this is impressive, this is no indication of being extremely fast. AAMOF, I would say this took more then a couple of seconds

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Cassandra Nova has made Gladiator wet his pants with a thought.

Doesn't say she did it with a thought, stop assuming. From what I see, he pissed himself because Nova scared the sh1t out him.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
She's also made Wolvey a little girl with a thought.

I have the stories on Cassandra Nova, which one states that she controlled Wolverine with a thought?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Emma has taken over Beasts and Wolverines mind with a thought.

What issue does it say she controlled them with a thought?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Esme has mentally shutdown both Sage and Bishop with a thought.

Doesn't say that, stop assuming

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
When telepaths communicate with one another it's thought based.

True

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Both Storm and Emma make visual contact at the same time, so I don't see the point you're trying to proof.

The point is, unless you give an issue number saying Emma was doing something with the speed of thought, your scan are pointless.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
As stated above Emma's thought is action while Storm is thought + action.

If you want to see speed then here you go.

This show the quickness at which Storm can react with her power. See how she is able to produce winds before the gun release it's bullet. IMHO, this is far faster then those two images you showed of Emma.

Originally posted by HandOfFate
I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that Storm's powers are always on. Mentally speaking she is always in touch with the environment. This is the reason she can feel the movement of objects through the air even thought she can't see the object.

This also allows Storm to manifest weather effects within seconds, which is about the same time it would take Emma to generate a mental bolt

As you can see, it takes her seconds to manifest a hurrican on the surface of the Moon. Now think about if she did something much smaller. 😉

Seconds for storm yes, less so for emma imo...

exactly what xmarks says here is what i think...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That's not the speed of thought, that's the speed of an action potential down myelinated axons. If Emma planned on punching Storm in the face it might be relevant.

Storm : Thought followed by action.
Emma : Thought is action.

Emma: 'Shut down.' Storm shuts down. Same thing as discussed ad nauseum with the Sue Richards thread.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I remember that thread too...

as do i...

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
That's not my point only that it takes less steps for her to shut someone else's mind down than it does for Storm to conjure a lightning bolt. A lightning bolt takes time, even though it's fast, it still moves. A mental command is... "Sue, mind off"...

dude... exactly...

Originally posted by ddsmrt
Emma's power work at the speed of thought ok but don't you think since storm is alot smarter than emma see can think faster and act on her thoughts. But storm doesn't even have to think for her powers to react she is truely one with her powers just by her being a slight piss natural reacts so I say storm all the way

how is storm alot smarter?

Originally posted by HandOfFate
Doesn't say she did it with a thought, stop assuming. From what I see, he pissed himself because Nova scared the sh1t out him.

This is gladiator... some old woman isnt going to scare him unless she's doing something to him... 😛

I have the stories on Cassandra Nova, which one states that she controlled Wolverine with a thought?

What issue does it say she controlled them with a thought?

Astonishing X-Men #15

Originally posted by HandOfFate
If you want to see speed then here you go.

This show the quickness at which Storm can react with her power. See how she is able to produce winds before the gun release it's bullet. IMHO, this is far faster then those two images you showed of Emma.

Isn't that the hammer rather than the trigger? To me it looks that way... 😬

Handoffate proved most of your assumtions wrong.

BTW...that is 100% a gun...

There is never going to be a 100% anwser as of now who strikes faster
And your opinion is never going to change.

But saying Emma "instantly shuts down their mind" IS a lie, almost every time shes trys they either resist it or attempt it.

Originally posted by What If...
Handoffate proved most of your assumtions wrong.

BTW...that is 100% a gun...

There is never going to be a 100% anwser as of now who strikes faster
And your opinion is never going to change.

But saying Emma "instantly shuts down their mind" IS a lie, almost every time shes trys they either resist it or attempt it.

If he did then why am i still debating?

i never said it wasnt a gun, i simply said it looked like the hammer rather than the trigger... you cock the hammer, then pull the trigger...

My opinion is as valid as anyone elses... 😬

emma has taken down storm before psychically, even with her training i doubt storm can last very long, and still be able to aim a lightning bolt at emma before emma takes her down... 😬

Originally posted by HandOfFate
[B]Sigh...that's not with a thought, seeing that Wolverine was able to say something and even wave his hand. Something as fast as a thought would have frozen Wolverine before he could even respond.

Also, how can Emma be caught by surprise if she a telepath?

That's because she was caught by suprise. This is the HoM she wasn't a hero in this reality, she wasn't expecting to find anyone in her home. And I can recall a certain someone showing her getting sucker punched...again it shouldn't happen but it does.

Sigh again, that not that fast. The guy was in the middle of sentence when she stopped him. That's plenty of time for a telepath of Emma's level to control a group of non-psi trained people (Xavier's done it before). While this is impressive, this is no indication of being extremely fast. AAMOF, I would say this took more then a couple of seconds

There are 30 people and you're saying it's not that fast...again I can say a sentence in my head pretty fast. ie Mind off...

You're getting really desperate.

Doesn't say she did it with a thought, stop assuming. From what I see, he pissed himself because Nova scared the sh1t out him.

Again desperate...Glads doesn't wet his pants because he's scared. He's gone up against far more terrifying bad guys.

I have the stories on Cassandra Nova, which one states that she controlled Wolverine with a thought?

Astonishing X-Men #15

What issue does it say she controlled them with a thought?

It's one of the earlier Astonishing #1 or #2. I'll get it for you.

Doesn't say that, stop assuming

That looks to me like she screwed with Sages head with a thought.
You know how fast I can say a sentence in my head...pretty fast.

The point is, unless you give an issue number saying Emma was doing something with the speed of thought, your scan are pointless.

I'l get you more scans, in the mean time lets create a thread in your honour.

If you want to see speed then here you go.

This show the quickness at which Storm can react with her power. See how she is able to produce winds before the gun release it's bullet. IMHO, this is far faster then those two images you showed of Emma.

That's not the trigger...."Click?" And basically a whole sentence. That's really slow in terms of my scans....

Obviously you're opinion is a little biased then.

Not quick enough.

Originally posted by stormfront13
[B]do you know the time it was after she left her diamond form to the point where had pushed their bliss buttons? definitley more than the speed of thought however.

In the panel before she's in her diamond form in the panel after her human form, you do the math.

1) the scan doesn't prove it's at the speed of thought

2)it's taken longer than the speed of thought before in the comics

3) movies and cartoons don't mean anything

Oh it means everything when the power of telepathy is actually potrayed as a thought based power.

Originally posted by What If...
Handoffate proved most of your assumtions wrong.

BTW...that is 100% a gun...

There is never going to be a 100% anwser as of now who strikes faster
And your opinion is never going to change.

But saying Emma "instantly shuts down their mind" IS a lie, almost every time shes trys they either resist it or attempt it.

When has anyone ever resisted that attack..and as far as I can see Storms powers work much, much slower then telepathy.

That's 100% not a trigger...there's a clicking noise and the guy talks..

Originally posted by pr1983
This is gladiator... some old woman isnt going to scare him unless she's doing something to him... 😛

Here the thing, she had already done something to him and the rest of the guard.

Originally posted by pr1983
Astonishing X-Men #15

I'm to lazy to go and get my comics out, so could you please tell me if she or the narrative actually says with a thought. Now keep in mind that this doesn't really change anything seeing that this is Cassandra and not Emma.

Originally posted by pr1983
Isn't that the hammer rather than the trigger? To me it looks that way... 😬

I'll let you be the judge of that because I really can't tell what kind of gun he is holding. To tell you the truth, it really doesn't make a different to me, seeing that I'm pointing out sheer speed and not make of gun.🙂

Here the thing, unless a telepath is already in contact with an opponent's mind then nothing offensively is going to happen (now once they make contact that's another story). Some of you guys are assuming that once/if Emma makes contact with Storm's mind that she can command her do something.

Now I want you to think about how many time Storm has been mentally controlled by anybody since CC returned to the X-Men. Claremont has been slowly building up her psychic defensive over the years, making her almost Magneto's equal when it comes to defending against telepaths.(IMO)

Another thing to consider, that we have no idea where the off switch to a person's brain is located. Emma might find out just like Jean using Cerebra and Bogan through Rachel, that some forms of manipulation cannot be done to Storm without encountering the electrical energy within her body first.

Emma could try to reach into Storm's mind if she want too

Even Xavier has some problems with Storm's mind

Beside, if telepathy was that automatic then any negative thought from a telepath would kill people all the time in the Marvel Universe. Sorry but it just doesn't work that way in my opinion

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
That's 100% not a trigger...there's a clicking noise and the guy talks.. [/B]

Wait, wait, a clicking noise over the gun and the guy talking!?!?! That not even the order the picture takes place in. Man that's Sheer Denial right there. I was going to respond to you but now I see it's pointless.

Thank you for this semi-logical debate. I hope that doesn't sound disrespectful because I'm not trying to be. 🙂

So pr1983, what is your opinion on this subject again. 😄

Originally posted by HandOfFate
Wait, wait, a clicking noise over the gun and the guy talking!?!?! That not even the order the picture takes place in. Man that's [b]Sheer Denial right there. I was going to respond to you but now I see it's pointless.

Thank you for this semi-logical debate. I hope that doesn't sound disrespectful because I'm not trying to be. 🙂

So pr1983, what is your opinion on this subject again. 😄 [/B]

It means the gun is being cocked so that it is ready to fire(Meaning he had to register two physical actions, not to mention the fact that he caught her attention with his little speech). 🙄 BTW I'm uploading more scans as we speak.

Sorry had to put in a much better image of Storm can Jean little talk. 🙁

Again both those scans involving Xavier and Jean involve a type of probing. Even Emma has had a hard time deciphering information from Storms mind. Its the same with Wolverine they all had a hard time deciphering his thoughts yet his brain can be told to shut down. There's active thought and then passive(subconcious) thought. These are two different types of telepathic techniques. Bogans powers are based on mental possesion.(A Battle of wills)
Also in their most recent fight in X-treme Storm was certainly not immune to Emma's telepathy. Emma's first use of her telepathy knocked Storm out of the skies. Her second was a behaviour modifier as stated by Emma. Two different types of telepathy.

As for that Gladiator scan you just posted. If Cassie did use her telepathy there, she just learnt Gladiators weakness by reading his mind. Pretty quick if you ask me.

Here's another scan more to come:

BTW I hope you saw this:

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It means the gun is being cocked so that it is ready to fire(Meaning he had to register two physical actions, not to mention the fact that he caught her attention with his little speech). 🙄 BTW I'm uploading more scans as we speak.

The scan above shows Emma effecting someone at the speed of thought.

In the next few scans Emma sledge hammers Kitty with a visual, before her mind gets fried by Vulcan.

More telepathy by Nova:

More to come soon, but I'd also still like to stress that telepathy's communicate with each other at the speed of thought.

Yo aren't showing any examples of emma use her tp in any way to affect storm yet you are getting shown emma and other psys getting no wear trying to mess with storm mind just given

Originally posted by ddsmrt
Yo aren't showing any examples of emma use her tp in any way to affect storm yet you are getting shown emma and other psys getting no wear trying to mess with storm mind just given

Here's one from the first time they fought.

http://img158.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=05156_Uncanny_X_Men_129_16_303lo.jpg

And here's one from their most recent fight, this one actually knocked Storm out of the skies.

http://img375.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xtremexmen22p17hgwellsod3.jpg

So as you can see even now they're psychic attacks that Storm cannot counter.

And the reasons why Telepathy doesn't equal an instant win for the X-Men is because everyone seems to have those things called telepathic blockers or either some other device that protects them from it ie Juggs helmet and Skull cap, Magnetos helmet or they have a high degree of telepathy themselves. Plus Xavier and Jean were also confined to their code of ethics.
Emma is not, and everyone she's faced so far has either been immune to telepathy Danger, War or has had telepathic blockers.(Stryker) However once the blockers were removed, Emma immediately went for the telepathic knockout. Plus prolonging the fights keeps the comic interesting.

Originally posted by HandOfFate
Here the thing, she had already done something to him and the rest of the guard.

Gladiator has faced worse enemies... he's marvel's pre crisis superman, it takes a hell of alot to scare him imo...

I'm to lazy to go and get my comics out, so could you please tell me if she or the narrative actually says with a thought. Now keep in mind that this doesn't really change anything seeing that this is Cassandra and not Emma.

Cassandra is a more powerful telepath, granted, but Emma is no slouch, she's beaten the likes of rachel grey telepathically...

I'll let you be the judge of that because I really can't tell what kind of gun he is holding. To tell you the truth, it really doesn't make a different to me, seeing that I'm pointing out sheer speed and not make of gun.🙂

The make of the gun doesn't really matter... you cock the gun, then you pull the trigger... there is a gap in between, or else the gun won't fire... 😬

Here the thing, unless a telepath is already in contact with an opponent's mind then nothing offensively is going to happen (now once they make contact that's another story). Some of you guys are assuming that once/if Emma makes contact with Storm's mind that she can command her do something.

I don't think anyone is assuming that, we're just saying that we think emma is faster than storm...

Now I want you to think about how many time Storm has been mentally controlled by anybody since CC returned to the X-Men. Claremont has been slowly building up her psychic defensive over the years, making her almost Magneto's equal when it comes to defending against telepaths.(IMO)

Claremont practically masturbates on the page when he writes storm, when she blasted emma it was borne of desperation as emma was about to take her down...

Another thing to consider, that we have no idea where the off switch to a person's brain is located. Emma might find out just like Jean using Cerebra and Bogan through Rachel, that some forms of manipulation cannot be done to Storm without encountering the electrical energy within her body first.

Emma could try to reach into Storm's mind if she want too

Even Xavier has some problems with Storm's mind

Beside, if telepathy was that automatic then any negative thought from a telepath would kill people all the time in the Marvel Universe. Sorry but it just doesn't work that way in my opinion [/B]

Nobody is saying its automatic, i wish people would stop thinking that... all i'm saying is this: i think given both characters' abilities, i'd say emma reacts slightly faster than storm...

and storm would have to fight off emma while targetting her with a lightning bolt... that can't be easy...

Originally posted by HandOfFate
Wait, wait, a clicking noise over the gun and the guy talking!?!?! That not even the order the picture takes place in. Man that's [b]Sheer Denial right there. I was going to respond to you but now I see it's pointless.

Thank you for this semi-logical debate. I hope that doesn't sound disrespectful because I'm not trying to be. 🙂

So pr1983, what is your opinion on this subject again. 😄 [/B]

Dude... please read my posts... the hammer and the trigger are seperate entities...

Exdous cloak Emma hasn't won any fights since their first encounter and now they are up to about five. Stop trying to make it seem as if Emma had a chance. And that fight looks very fimilar to the one I have if it is the one I have then here is how some of the rest of it goes

Originally posted by pr1983
I don't think anyone is assuming that, we're just saying that we think emma is faster than storm...

why would she be faster? she doesn't have any enhanecd reaction time

when she blasted emma it was borne of desperation

correction...it was an act of defending herself. there's a difference

i think given both characters' abilities, i'd say emma reacts slightly faster than storm...

why? emma does not have enhanced reaction time so what makes you think that she reacts faster than a person with above average reaction time? do you have any proof that she would be able to react faster?

and storm would have to fight off emma while targetting her with a lightning bolt... that can't be easy...

why wouldn't it be easy? she's done it before..hell..she's done it multiple times in the past.

Originally posted by ddsmrt
Exdous cloak Emma hasn't won any fights since their first encounter and now they are up to about five. Stop trying to make it seem as if Emma had a chance. And that fight looks very fimilar to the one I have if it is the one I have then here is how some of the rest of it goes

It's the same one, and the scan I posted is an example of Storm being unable to counter Emma's telepathy. Had Emma not changed to Diamond Form pile drived Storm into the snow and tried to modify her behaviour that match would have been over before they hit the ground.
Had Emma in her Diamond Form for instance karate chopped Storm in the skull then the match would have been over. Or had she continued with her first Psi-Assault the match would have been over.

Originally posted by stormfront13
[B]why would she be faster? she doesn't have any enhanecd reaction time

If we're going by on panel evidence, telepathy it a tiny bit faster.

correction...it was an act of defending herself. there's a difference

I think what he meant was, had Emma been fighting smart the match would have been over as soon as they hit the snow.

why? emma does not have enhanced reaction time so what makes you think that she reacts faster than a person with above average reaction time? do you have any proof that she would be able to react faster?

Again if we're going by on panel evidence, telepathy is a slight notch faster.

why wouldn't it be easy? she's done it before..hell..she's done it multiple times in the past.

She's never done it when Emma was using a Psi-Blast against her and she's never done it when Emma used a Psi-Force Bolt against her, in fact Emma's first telepathic attack in X-treme made Storm lose control over her powers and knocked her out of the sky. She has done it when Emma used a Behaviour modification thing.

It's the same one, and the scan I posted is an example of Storm being unable to counter Emma's telepathy. Had Emma not changed to Diamond Form pile drived Storm into the snow and tried to modify her behaviour that match would have been over before they hit the ground.
Had Emma in her Diamond Form for instance karate chopped Storm in the skull then the match would have been over. Or had she continued with her first Psi-Assault the match would have been over.

That's the point. SHe changed herself because she can't fight Storm if she's on her human form.

And Storm can electocute anyone, even on their phased form (like Shadowcat, Shaw) how much can a solid object withstand? It;s not like she has super healing factor, and oh yeah, super reaction time...

and storm would have to fight off emma while targetting her with a lightning bolt... that can't be easy...

She's been doing this all her life, and she can cause lightning with barely a thought, and targeting is just half of a heartbeat to her. Targetting is just an option to her. She demonstrated to blow up like an electrical field or something to kill off a bunch of Sentinels, she can release a tempest that won't require her to target anyone, bang! Emma is hit. Bye.

Cassandra is a more powerful telepath, granted, but Emma is no slouch, she's beaten the likes of rachel grey telepathically...

Emma won because of expertise on her powers. LIke how Storm beat her because of the wise use of her God-given abilities. This is not a battle of raw power, this is a battle with strategy. Come on, why do you think Storm has been winning all this time? Like it or not, 5 instances can back up Storm's victory, and people still insist this? Come on...

And it's not like Rachel's all solid. She's powerful, yes, but no where near her potential yet. Emma's been doing it all her life, just like Storm. And they faced off several times. And Storm won most of the time.

emma has taken down storm before psychically, even with her training i doubt storm can last very long, and still be able to aim a lightning bolt at emma before emma takes her down...

*sigh* AGAIN. You people make it look like telepathy attack is going to be easy while facing Storm on a first try, she has electrical interference on her brain. That's going to take time. Her lightning isn't though.