Emma Frost v.s. Storm

Started by BlueDMighty18 pages

To the Psi bolt, mind rape, possesion debate I would like to contribute the following:

Storm keeping it together after a Psychic "Stab" from a member of Gene Nation. While fighting Marrow

Please note:
That, while affected, her recovery time allows her to deal with the attacker before Pete and Logan. WHILE kicking Marrows ass.

Storm keeping it together after an attack on her nervous system by Mr Kine

She resist possesion.

Child Storm resist a mind-rape from the Shadow King and blocks him as well.

Storm vs Elias Bogan

Storm vs Emma Frost(White Queen)

She takes a direct telepatic assault.

Originally posted by BlueDMighty
To the Psi bolt, mind rape, possesion debate I would like to contribute the following:

[b] Storm keeping it together after a Psychic "Stab" from a member of Gene Nation. While fighting Marrow

Please note:
That, while affected, her recovery time allows her to deal with the attacker before Pete and Logan. WHILE kicking Marrows ass.

Storm keeping it together after an attack on her nervous system by Mr Kine

She resist possesion.

Child Storm resist a mind-rape from the Shadow King and blocks him as well.

Storm vs Elias Bogan

Storm vs Emma Frost(White Queen)

She takes a direct telepatic assault.

[/B]

In the last set os scans it looks more like mind control due to Emma's CIS habit "to play with her preys".

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Storm's psychic defences are sometimes overrated, telepathy isn't one-dimensional power which has quite a lot of sophisticated ways to use.

Storm's willpower makes it hard to directly mind control her, that's true. Static field in her mind makes it difficult to read her thoughts...

Stun, mindblast, mindfry...lots of opinions for Emma for which Storm normally hasn't proved ANY solid defences.

But storm has proven the ability to scramble and completely block a psylink altogether. With no linkage to the mind, where does Stun, mindblast, mindfry come in when there is no connection to the mind in the first place?

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
In the last set os scans it looks more like mind control due to Emma's CIS habit "to play with her preys".

Emma Stated herself "telepathic assault" not behavior modification or mind control.

Originally posted by The Weather God
But storm has proven the ability to scramble and completely block a psylink altogether. With no linkage to the mind, where does Stun, mindblast, mindfry come in when there is no connection to the mind in the first place?

Not true actually, Illyana is immune to telepaths reading her thoughts and she can be effected by Mind-Blasts.

I've seen two types of mind blasts:
1.) Pure Psionic Energy
2.) Misfiring of synapses

The first doesn't require contact with the oppositions thoughts.

As for the fight there are pages and pages of scans and posts with this stuff,(In another thread) and the same points addressed still apply here.

Emma Stated herself "telepathic assault" not behavior modification or mind control.

"Telepathic Assault" can also equal Modification and Mind Control. There are scans of Storm resisting mind control and behaviour modification. There are scans of her subconscious thoughts being telepathically effected and her being effected and KO'd by mind blasts.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Not true actually, Illyana is immune to telepaths reading her thoughts and she can be effected by Mind-Blasts.

But that doesn't prove that she is able to block a psylink altogether, that just proves that Illyana is immune to probing. In the recent uncanny x-men issue the professor stated that storm's mind went white, and he could not get in at all(notice the lightning storm around the jet when this happens). He was completely blocked from her mind.

Show me an instance when this happened to Illyana

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
"Telepathic Assault" can also equal Modification and Mind Control. There are scans of Storm resisting mind control and behaviour modification. There are scans of her subconscious thoughts being telepathically effected and her being effected and KO'd by mind blasts.

I don't see how that is possible considering assault means "a sudden, violent attack; onslaught". Why would mind control be violent?

Originally posted by The Weather God
But that doesn't prove that she is able to block a psylink altogether, that just proves that Illyana is immune to probing. In the recent uncanny x-men issue the professor stated that storm's mind went white, and he could not get in at all(notice the lightning storm around the jet when this happens). He was completely blocked from her mind.

Show me an instance when this happened to Illyana

Sigh* Another Storm scan being taken out of context. If you read the scan again you'll see that he could sense her fear. Out of fear her mind went white, when you're afraid that's what happens. There's no thoughts just blank fear...now she's currently trapped in a coffin.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Sigh* Another Storm scan being taken out of context. If you read the scan again you'll see that could sense her fear. Out of fear her mind went white, when you're afraid that's what happens. There's no thoughts just blank fear...now she's currently trapped in a coffin.

It or he did not say "OUT OF FEAR" he said "Her Mind Went White And He Cannot Get In". Regardless of the circumstances he was blocked.

Originally posted by The Weather God
Show me an instance when this happened to Illyana

http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newmutants01513lj2.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newmutants01622fx7.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newmutants01506jr1.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2186/newmutants01507mh3.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/8655/newmutants01508nh4.jpg

I don't see how that is possible considering assault means "a sudden, violent attack; onslaught". Why would mind control be violent?

If it's behaviour modification then it is violent, I say this because of the conversation between Emma and Storm. Being a mere memory...the never be your slave again part etc.

Originally posted by The Weather God
It or he did not say "OUT OF FEAR" he said "Her Mind Went White And He Cannot Get In". Regardless of the circumstances he was blocked.

There's more...I'll get you it.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Conveniently you have the part where he can read her fear cut of the scan...I'll get you a better scan.

the scan isn't cut, just go to the bottom of the post and scroll over with the scrollbar

Blocked? Then how'd he sense her screaming? You're using the scan above out of context.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Blocked? Then how'd he sense her screaming? You're using the scan above out of context.

Storm could have perhaps reopened her mind seeing as how she's conviently focused enough to create a ball of energy 😕

And why would he state that he cannot get into her mind and then say he can hear screaming? 😕

Originally posted by The Weather God
Storm could have perhaps reopened her mind seeing as how she's conviently focused enough to create a ball of energy 😕

Both scans occur right after each other. Read the scans together. "It just went white and I can't get in...all I hear is screaming."

Again Storms mind is blank because of her fear. In the preview of the next issue, it shows that she passed out and was then dragged to a coffin and placed inside it.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=11973

And why would he state that he cannot get into her mind and then say he can hear screaming? 😕

Because Brubaker is writing it, and he enjoys using really bad dialogue.

People actually speak like that in real life...they say something and then they immediately contradict when they add a conjunction. Bru likes to intergrate modern day slang and stuff into his comics. Even if it goes against characterisation. As shown by this arc and the X-Box 360, Youtube references.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Both scans occur right after each other. Read the scans together. "It just went white and I can't get in...all I hear is screaming."

Again Storms mind is blank because of her fear. In the preview of the next issue, it shows that she passed out and was then dragged to a coffin and placed inside it.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=11973

But like i said, at first he probably wasn't able to read her mind until she got focused(why did he wait until next panel to say "all i hear is screaming?"😉

Originally posted by The Weather God
But like i said, at first he probably wasn't able to read her mind until she got focused(why did he wait until next panel to say "all i hear is screaming?"😉

Because Brubaker is writing it, and he enjoys using really bad dialogue.

People actually speak like that in real life...they say something and then they immediately contradict when they add a conjunction. Bru likes to intergrate modern day slang and stuff into his comics. Even if it goes against characterisation. As shown by this arc and the X-Box 360, Youtube references.

Anyway I got to go to college.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Because Brubaker is writing it, and he enjoys using really bad dialogue.

People actually speak like that in real life...they say something and then they immediately contradict when they add a conjunction. Bru likes to intergrate modern day slang and stuff into his comics. Even if it goes against characterisation. As shown by this arc and the X-Box 360, Youtube references.

No what your failing to realize is the professor wasn't able to get into her mind at all at first, from the look on his face it would appear as tho he tried numerous attempts to get inside, and I'm betting when storm came to and made the ball of energy, that was when he was able to get in.

Bad writting always seems to be the problem with these storm scans.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newmutants01513lj2.jpg
http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newmutants01622fx7.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newmutants01506jr1.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2186/newmutants01507mh3.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/8655/newmutants01508nh4.jpg

If it's behaviour modification then it is violent, I say this because of the conversation between Emma and Storm. Being a mere memory...the never be your slave again part etc.

Umm i was talking about her mind going white not her being prone to a mind fry. And since when does a behavior modification get violent and is a violent attack to the mind?


"Telepathic Assault" can also equal Modification and Mind Control. There are scans of Storm resisting mind control and behaviour modification. There are scans of her subconscious thoughts being telepathically effected and her being effected and KO'd by mind blasts. [/B]

That's a Stretch.

She means that Storm herself will be a memory by tommorow.

And in the context, what reason would she have to MB as opposed to outright attacking her with the much talked about psi bolt?

Originally posted by The Weather God
No what your failing to realize is the professor wasn't able to get into her mind at all at first, from the look on his face it would appear as tho he tried numerous attempts to get inside, and I'm betting when storm came to and made the ball of energy, that was when he was able to get in.

Bad writting always seems to be the problem with these storm scans.

I never said it was bad writing I said it was bad dialogue, people actually speak like that in real life so I can't really call Brubaker on that. Nope, Xavier sentence that occurs over two pages is one sentence. That last bit is a conjunction which means the sentence is one. What Xavier actually meant when he said he can't get in is that he's not able to tell what happened to Storm because her mind just went blank due to fear. If she's in shock then how is he supposed to know what just happened to her? He is able to tell that she's afraid though as he says. And he was able to track her via her mind aswell.
"Can you find Ororo's mind, again?"

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/marvelcomics/uncannyxmen/491/UNCX491_int-8.jpg

Remember the preview...Storms passed out. Which would most probably been due to fear and lack of oxygen. She never calmed down.

Storms only natural resistance to telepathy is her resistance to deeper probing because of the static in her brain. And her will to mind control and behaviour modification or any type of telepathic attack that involves delving into her conscious thoughts/memories.

Umm i was talking about her mind going white not her being prone to a mind fry. And since when does a behavior modification get violent and is a violent attack to the mind?

Erasing/Changing memories so the person is a vegetable of their former self is quite a violent attack. And again telepathic assault is equivilent to telepathic attack. It was never made clear as to what type of attack it was.

Originally posted by BlueDMighty
That's a Stretch.

She means that Storm herself will be a memory by tommorow.

And in the context, what reason would she have to MB as opposed to outright attacking her with the much talked about psi bolt?

It wasn't a mind blast for the very reason that Emma said, "I know your mind as well as I know my own." The Mind Blast we're talking about is pure psionic energy, the one she used on Illyana who is immune to telepathic intruision.

I interpret that as behaviour modification. The persona Storm, as we know her would be nothing more then a mere memory...she'd be a vegetable shell of her former self.

For story purposes of course...and the fact that the Hellfire Club could still have use for Storms weather manipulating powers.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I never said it was bad writing I said it was bad dialogue, people actually speak like that in real life so I can't really call Brubaker on that. Nope, Xavier sentence that occurs over two pages is one sentence. That last bit is a conjunction which means the sentence is one. What Xavier actually meant when he said he can't get in is that he's not able to tell what happened to Storm because her mind just went blank due to fear. If she's in shock then how is he supposed to know what just happened to her? He is able to tell that she's afraid though as he says. And he was able to track her via her mind aswell.
"Can you find Ororo's mind, again?"

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/marvelcomics/uncannyxmen/491/UNCX491_int-8.jpg

Remember the preview...Storms passed out. Which would most probably been due to fear and lack of oxygen. She never calmed down.

Storms only natural resistance to telepathy is her resistance to deeper probing because of the static in her brain. And her will to mind control and behaviour modification or any type of telepathic attack that involves delving into her conscious thoughts/memories.

Look at the box carefully, he is saying this in an entirely different sentence or else the little dots or slash would have been there to let you know he is continuing from the last panel

Now look here and notice how many times he trails off attempting to enter storm's mind unsuccessfully(which he states himself), notice how many times you see the "..." which could more then likely means that he just trialled off at his final words on that page. It is clear as day that he was attempting several times to enter her mind and when he finely got in a bit he could hear her screaming.

I believe that once she got buried her powers went out of control like they always do(lightning scrambling the link), and the professor ended up getting completely blocked from her mind in the process of her claustrophobia. When she was able to calm down enough to create the ball of energy was when the professor was able to enter her mind a bit and hear her screaming, it makes perfect sense seeing how on the panel before he was unsuccessful in entering her mind, then the next panel shows her pulling herself together a bit while at the same time the professor said all he can hear is screaming.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Erasing/Changing memories so the person is a vegetable of their former self is quite a violent attack. And again telepathic assault is equivilent to telepathic attack. It was never made clear as to what type of attack it was.

It wasn't a mind blast for the very reason that Emma said, "I know your mind as well as I know my own." The Mind Blast we're talking about is pure psionic energy, the one she used on Illyana who is immune to telepathic intruision.

I interpret that as behavior modification. The persona Storm, as we know her would be nothing more then a mere memory...she'd be a vegetable shell of her former self.

For story purposes of course...and the fact that the Hellfire Club could still have use for Storms weather manipulating powers.

Every panel always haves something to do with them still wanting storm alive or just flat out bad writing or dialogue. 🙁 I mean really is there any panel you would consider evidence of storm's indomitable will? Why would they equipped her with telepathic defense when you say any telepath could just walk up on her and kill her before anything happens.?

Anyway storm's power works subconsciously and before she can even put forth a full thought the weather reacts. Since this is possible storm and emma would attack at probably the same speeds when the match begins, storm gets koed and emma dies from a 1,000,000 voltage lightning bolt hotter then two to three times the surface of the sun.

Storm 6/10

Originally posted by The Weather God
[B]

Look at the box carefully, he is saying this in an entirely different sentence or else the little dots or slash would have been there to let you know he is continuing from the last panel

Now look here and notice how many times he trails off attempting to enter storm's mind unsuccessfully(which he states himself), notice how many times you see the "..." which could more then likely means that he just trialled off at his final words on that page. It is clear as day that he was attempting several times to enter her mind and when he finely got in a bit he could hear her screaming.

I believe that once she got buried her powers went out of control like they always do(lightning scrambling the link), and the professor ended up getting completely blocked from her mind in the process of her claustrophobia. When she was able to calm down enough to create the ball of energy was when the professor was able to enter her mind a bit and hear her screaming, it makes perfect sense seeing how on the panel before he was unsuccessful in entering her mind, then the next panel shows her pulling herself together a bit while at the same time the professor said all he can hear is screaming.

The 3 dots at the end of of his sentence in the scan where he talks about her mind going white(blank) shows that the sentence is going to be continued. The point of having "All I hear is screaming" on the second page is to show that the events coincide with one another.
That's what you're forgetting, that the events are occuring at exactly the same time.

See here, the first two panels of this scan:

Coincide with the last panel of this scan: (The page before)

The third panel of the first scan coincides with this: (The page after, the scan where Storm is discharging electricity from her hands)

So his explanation regarding the state of her mind occurs at exactly the same time as the last scan. And as shown in the scan, his sentence coincides with her discharging electricity from her hands. So there was no first he couldn't get in, and later he could. Because the events coincide with each other.

The "..." shows him trying to make contact with Storm and find out what happened to her, but her mind is blank...and all he's getting is her screaming. So obviously he's worried and confused.

Again the panels/scans don't occur one after the other. They occur at exactly the same time. She didn't pull herself together in the next scan. As shown in the preview she eventually passed out. But before this happened Xavier was able to track her position via mind.

Every panel always haves something to do with them still wanting storm alive or just flat out bad writing or dialogue. 🙁 I mean really is there any panel you would consider evidence of storm's indomitable will? Why would they equipped her with telepathic defense when you say any telepath could just walk up on her and kill her before anything happens.?

Anyway storm's power works subconsciously and before she can even put forth a full thought the weather reacts. Since this is possible storm and emma would attack at probably the same speeds when the match begins, storm gets koed and emma dies from a 1,000,000 voltage lightning bolt hotter then two to three times the surface of the sun.

Storm 6/10

I'm already addressed her resistance to certain types of telepathy. But other types of telepathy work differently and she's been taken out by them and hasn't shown any resistance to them. And anytime we bring up scans where her defences have been violtated your side claims PIS.

I'm not going to comment on the match because we already had a I don't know how many page long Jean Grey thread where exactly the same issues with Storm came up. And I'd rather not go around in circles again. On a side note though, telepaths powers are also always on. They don't have to make contact with the mind. The mind makes contact with them. That's why they have to constantly block out the thoughts of people. And in Carey's latest issue of X-Men we learn that telepathic time and objective time differ. Telepathic time > objective time. Telepaths do a lot more telepathically in 1 second telepathic time then they do in 1 second objective time.