Originally posted by Schecter
again, reading is fundamentalfor the entire length of RotJ vader was not a villain, but an impotent, exhausted and pathetic character. right from the get go his power is resigned as he takes no disciplinary action on a failing commander, but rather warns him of the emporer's wrath. in RotJ it is palpatine who is the villain and antagonist. NOT vader. its blatantly obvious
well in that case is he a villain or not???
you disagree, but then say he was the villain(in ep4 and ep5), was is it then???
he was the villain before, but then the bigger man showed up, that doesn't change the fact that he was bad, it just lessens his evil, He was in conflict between following his Emperor or following (what seems to be)his heart)... he even wanted to overthrow the Emperor with Luke's help!!!!
that's not a villain?
he was the villain... but sometimes the villain it's not the one behind it all, and is subordinated to someone else, like in this case... nobody know who was Palpatine, only that he was the Emperor, and if Vader is bad, you could imagine just how bad the Emperor has to be to have someone like Vader under his command
see this from the point of view of the people who saw the OT when it was first released, none of this PT or EU crap. Vader was the bad guy, the cruel villain, he was as bad as he could get in ESB, THAt's what people remember, that's why vader become such an iconic figure, he's what almost every "new villain" after '77 gets compared to.
why else would you think every bad guy, in any show or different fictional media, when take into an Star Wars context, gets compared to Vader?
I know people can disagree with me when I say his the Greatest Villain ever created (even though he is)... but having a change of heart in the last remaining minutes of his life won't make what he did go away, he's only getting redeemed
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Vader? At least say Dr. Doom if you're gonna say Vader.Unless you buy Lucas' bs about "Inspired by samurai!".
-AC
😆
I'm sorry, but how bad as Doom is or could be, people (outside of fanboys and comic geeks) would only remember him by Pretty Boy McMahon, "the dumb dude who couldnt get the hot chick, even though he had money, and wanted even more money"
I know Doom, I now he's evil, but when talking mainstream, Vader kicks his shiny butt
Vader isnt that evil, he was just confused
but he was one fine Villain.... IMO the Greatest Villain
Originally posted by S_D_J
well in that case is he a villain or not???you disagree, but then say he was the villain(in ep4 and ep5), was is it then???
he was the villain before, but then the bigger man showed up, that doesn't change the fact that he was bad, it just lessens his evil, He was in conflict between following his Emperor or following (what seems to be)his heart)... he even wanted to overthrow the Emperor with Luke's help!!!!that's not a villain?
he was the villain... but sometimes the villain it's not the one behind it all, and is subordinated to someone else, like in this case... nobody know who was Palpatine, only that he was the Emperor, and if Vader is bad, you could imagine just how bad the Emperor has to be to have someone like Vader under his command
see this from the point of view of the people who saw the OT when it was first released, none of this PT or EU crap. Vader was the bad guy, the cruel villain, he was as bad as he could get in ESB, THAt's what people remember, that's why vader become such an iconic figure, he's what almost every "new villain" after '77 gets compared to.
why else would you think every bad guy, in any show or different fictional media, when take into an Star Wars context, gets compared to Vader?[B]Vader isnt that evil, he was just confused
followed by the contradiction:
Originally posted by S_D_J
Vader isnt that evil, he was just confused
*sigh* the entire ep6 illustrated the process of his redemption, from the start. in fact one could argue that he ceased his status as chief antagonist by allowing luke to escape at the end of ep5, even after he had refused his offer to become a sith.
vader WAS evil, as was stated over and over in the films. he ceased to be anakin skywalker and became darth vader....twisted and evil...etc etc. ep6 was the story of the return of anakin.
"my son is with them"
"are you sure"
"i have felt him, my master"
"strange that i have not. i wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear lord vader?"
clearly anakin is in the process of retaking his soul and destroying darth vader. the conduit for which being his caring for his son. if his intentions were evil at that point, palpatine would have sensed it, as he senses the dark side in all beings. "i can feel your anger"
his character in the film is far too confused, sympathetic, and conflicted to be a villain. eps 4 and 5, yes. ep6, no.
no EU nonesense here. just strictly canon and by the screenplay
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so you make a long post claiming to know all about vader and his intentions, but then cant back it up? whats the matter, bit off more than you can chew?explain how Vader ALLOWED Luke to escape at the end of ESB.
you never prompted me to. im fact all you did was quote me.
ANYWAY>
"dont make me destroy you"
vader continually pleads with luke to turn to the sith so that he would not have to kill him. luke refuses. so what does vader do? orders the milennium falcon to be DISABLED. rather than simply kill them all and save the trouble, he sends tie fighters out to disable it.
by taking care in not killing him, he bought luke and company more time, allowing them to escape. his own compassion for his son was his undoing. if he had truly been purely vader, there would be no ep6 since luke would have been dead in ep5.
Originally posted by SchecterVader wanted Luke to be his apprentice in ep.5, he used the fact that he was Luke's father against Luke, trying to sway him. "Together we can destroy the Emperor."
you never prompted me to. im fact all you did was quote me.ANYWAY>
"dont make me destroy you"
vader continually pleads with luke to turn to the sith so that he would not have to kill him. luke refuses. so what does vader do? orders the milennium falcon to be DISABLED. rather than simply kill them all and save the trouble, he sends tie fighters out to disable it with ion cannons.
by taking care in not killing him, he bought luke and company more time, allowing them to escape. his own compassion for his son was his undoing. if he had truly been purely vader, there would be no ep6 since luke would have been dead in ep5.
He ordered the hyperdrive on the Falcon disabled so that IF Luke were to be rescued by his friends, they would not be able to jump to lightspeed and escape. Vader didnt take into account that Luke would be strong enough to resist the dark side, nor did he realize that Leia and the others had such a resourceful astromech in R2 D2.
in ep.6, yes, I agree his compassion for Luke was a factor, but in ep.5, he wants Luke as a tool, a means to destroy Palpy. So there was no "allowance" on Vader's part as far as Luke escaping.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Vader wanted Luke to be his apprentice in ep.5, he used the fact that he was Luke's father against Luke, trying to sway him. "Together we can destroy the Emperor."He ordered the hyperdrive on the Falcon disabled so that IF Luke were to be rescued by his friends, they would not be able to jump to lightspeed and escape. Vader didnt take into account that Luke would be strong enough to resist the dark side, nor did he realize that Leia and the others had such a resourceful astromech in R2 D2.
in ep.6, yes, I agree his compassion for Luke was a factor, but in ep.5, he wants Luke as a tool, a means to destroy Palpy. So there was no "allowance" on Vader's part as far as Luke escaping.
"he will join us or die, master"
not
"he will join us...or ill try to recruit him later"
vader's promise was clear and he broke it.
Originally posted by VathuToddler? When has Link ever been a toddler? And GanonDORF has never actually LOST to Link, he in some PIS filled way is screwed out of victory. For one Link always has the Master Sword, in OoT he is arrogant and doesn't fo full out, then near death sends his own castle crashing down on him, and he survives and transforms to Ganon, who is held in place by Zelda after a fight with Link, gets stabbed in the forehead, and is then sealed by all the Sages while weakened. In WW he lost his Triforce of Power, the King of Hyrule wished for Link and Zelda to have a future, no matter what they would live, and was then double teamed by Link and Zelda. In TP he went thru a long ass string of fights with Link, and Link had major help from Midna two times and Zelda once, and then Zant killed himself and severed Ganondorf's connection to the world. Not to mention TP Link would rip Gaston's arm off casually. Link is no mere mortal.
Yet every time he manages to get beaten by first a toddler, then a child, then a teenager.And now A well endowed Adult Hyrulean. 😐