Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Isn't that a contradiction, though?
If something is paranormal, it means it is unexplainable by science (in definition terms anyway).
It also means, if it is paranormal, that it is outside of the realms of what is deemed as 'normal'. Science is natural.
you cannot use scientific evidence which are used to function in natural (normal) environment to prove something which is 'paranormal', no?Doesn't something become 'paranormal' in eyes of people, when there are no evidence for its occurance?
Not necessarily. Many currently accepted scientific phenomenon were considered "paranormal" at one point, simply because we didn't have the science to explain them. And if something is affecting the material universe (albeit through non-material means) there should still be an objective way to record it, since there is a tangible affect on the material universe. If something is entirely paranormal according to your definition, there is no effect whatsoever on the material world, and therefore wouldn't exist to us.
It also depends on the defintion. I doubt anyone would consider extraterrestrials non-material. Perhaps I should've called it "strange beliefs" or something, rather than paranormal, if only to avoid confusion. But by paranormal, I don't necessarily mean outside causality or beyond the material...it simply covers a broad range of topics, everything from ghosts to telekinetic spoon-bending.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
actually no. i was{n still am to an extent} a sceptic. to the point of almost being an extremist in the view. i didnt really have any desire to believe in "sumthing out there" at all. n it was not exactly nice to have such expiriences in my life. but the thing about being logical is that you shud give evidence the respect it deserves and not be biased either way or dogmatic. yes the reason for me thinking its highly probable is because of personal expiriences and anecdotal evidence. thats why i dont go out n tell or preach to people to "beleive it", n rightly so, one man's anecdotal evidence can at best be reason for inquiring, never beleief. i accept that. besides, its not like LACK OF BELEIF in such unlikely things is gonna make sumthing bad happen to any1 who doesnt beleive. n there r more important things in life, like trying to find your own peace n love n lessening the suffering of mankind.and i DO admit of me being deceived but i also understand that then it must have been a plot by various veyr close people to me, over many many years and maticulous planning and perseverance with only one objective, to deceive ME. whihc is also unlikely as i reason the world around me and expiriences.
Fair 'nuf.
See, for me though, part of "lessening the suffering of mankind" includes things like this. There's people who live their lives according to, say, their astrological reading. It's absurd (astrology has no credible grounds whatsoever) but it happens because of a belief in the paranormal. I can't do the myriad humantiarisn acts that every person sometimes wishes they could...my life is much more mundane. As such, this sort of thing is part of my "ministry", because a belief in something that is irrational isn't inherently harmful, but it has the potential to be.
And too often people justify their beliefs based on the anecdotal evidence you mentioned, which can usually be explained away and rarely offers valid evidence for belief.
So it's good that you remain skeptical, and I would encourage others to do likewise with all their beliefs. Question everything, and makes sure it "checks out" with the intellectual part of yourself, not just the emotional or intuitive side.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, and one day we my discover it in a scientific way.
wow
Now that you say that, I'm sure I've asked you something similar to that before. Highly interesting and respectable imho.
I'm sure this is the million dollar question, but do you have any idea about what this force may resemble or where we might look to find it?
Originally posted by inimalist
wowNow that you say that, I'm sure I've asked you something similar to that before. Highly interesting and respectable imho.
I'm sure this is the million dollar question, but do you have any idea about what this force may resemble or where we might look to find it?
I really don't know, but I would guess that the Grand Unification Theory might lead the way.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Not necessarily. Many currently accepted scientific phenomenon were considered "paranormal" at one point, simply because we didn't have the science to explain them. And if something is affecting the material universe (albeit through non-material means) there should still be an objective way to record it, since there is a tangible affect on the material universe. If something is entirely paranormal according to your definition, there is no effect whatsoever on the material world, and therefore wouldn't exist to us.It also depends on the defintion. I doubt anyone would consider extraterrestrials non-material. Perhaps I should've called it "strange beliefs" or something, rather than paranormal, if only to avoid confusion. But by paranormal, I don't necessarily mean outside causality or beyond the material...it simply covers a broad range of topics, everything from ghosts to telekinetic spoon-bending.
Fair 'nuf.
See, for me though, part of "lessening the suffering of mankind" includes things like this. There's people who live their lives according to, say, their astrological reading. It's absurd (astrology has no credible grounds whatsoever) but it happens because of a belief in the paranormal. I can't do the myriad humantiarisn acts that every person sometimes wishes they could...my life is much more mundane. As such, this sort of thing is part of my "ministry", because a belief in something that is irrational isn't inherently harmful, but it has the potential to be.
And too often people justify their beliefs based on the anecdotal evidence you mentioned, which can usually be explained away and rarely offers valid evidence for belief.
So it's good that you remain skeptical, and I would encourage others to do likewise with all their beliefs. Question everything, and makes sure it "checks out" with the intellectual part of yourself, not just the emotional or intuitive side.
Yes, true, they were considered paranormal, however, in reality, they ever never paranormal.
Paranormal is something which defies the rules of nature (and with that science). If it defies its rules, than paranormal cannot be measured against them, no?
Maybe Im missing your point. Thats the bit I picked up on, so I thought to comment.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Yes, true, they were considered paranormal, however, in reality, they ever never paranormal.Paranormal is something which defies the rules of nature (and with that science). If it defies its rules, than paranormal cannot be measured against them, no?
Maybe Im missing your point. Thats the bit I picked up on, so I thought to comment.
It's a valid point. But my thought is that it should be measurable, because even supposedly paranormal claims (telekinesis, for example) have real-world, material affects. Therefore, they actually are measurable. If something was entirely paranormal according to your definition, it wouldn't affect anything materially, wouldn't be able to be perceived by the senses, and for all practical purposes wouldn't exist in any form.
For example, a "ghost" might be an other-worldly apparition outside of our laws of physics. But if we can see it with our eyes, and therefore perceive it with our mind, there is a change to the material universe by this ghost, so there should be an objective way to investigate the validity of the ghost-claim.
The idea behind this thread is to see if there is this kind of evidence out there for these claims that I'm unaware of...because otherwise, all any paranormal claim has to fall back on are faith-based arguments or personal experiences that are suspect at best.
...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, and one day we my discover it in a scientific way.
ID advocates are confident we'll one day find scientific evidence for their claims of supernatural involvement in evolution.
😛
Originally posted by Alfheim
So you would tell everbody that you could do this, if you had that ability?
well maybe. since im one of those people who despite trying, cant seem to keep their mouth shut. but i wasnt talking about me. i was saying that the generalisation you made isnt right, cause i know of exceptions in people other than myself.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
well maybe. since im one of those people who despite trying, cant seem to keep their mouth shut. but i wasnt talking about me. i was saying that the generalisation you made isnt right, cause i know of exceptions in people other than myself.
Well lets put it this way if you could control peoples mind and you went and told everybody you would probably whish that you didnt.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well lets put it this way if you could control peoples mind and you went and told everybody you would probably whish that you didnt.
lmao, no. if you cud control people's minds, youd tell your close friends, n they wudnt tell any1 else for fear of ridiculing or their psychic friend getting in trouble/attracting the attention of people who are interested{hint hint}, n if you did feal like telling, or betraying them, theyd see in yur mind and make you forget that they were psychic to begin with. 😄
Originally posted by leonheartmm
lmao, no. if you cud control people's minds, youd tell your close friends, n they wudnt tell any1 else for fear of ridiculing or their psychic friend getting in trouble/attracting the attention of people who are interested{hint hint}, n if you did feal like telling, or betraying them, theyd see in yur mind and make you forget that they were psychic to begin with. 😄
Well this is getting too technical....this is turning into a comic book vs debate. 😂
I see what you saying but I think its more complicated than that.....
I do know there a freemasonry organizations that practice the occult and if you join you have to keep secrets.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well this is getting too technical....this is turning into a comic book vs debate. 😂I see what you saying but I think its more complicated than that.....
I do know there a freemasonry organizations that practice the occult and if you join you have to keep secrets.
talking about comic books, an easier example. xavier{who for the sake of plot, isnt a public mutant nor wants to be publically known} is my friend. he tells me hes a powerful telepath. he thinks ill be loyal an keep his secret. i wudnt tell anyone 1. because its against my friend's wishes 2.because hes a telepath and would find out if i told or was planning on telling as he has cosmic awareness 3. because of the fear that the government sentinals would kill or kidnapp him for their own devious research or purposes 4. because no1 would beleive me 5. because since after knowing i told, or was gonna tell, xavier would wipe my mind clean telepathically.
now the REASON xavier told was that he cud be more REAL and true to his friends/lover{assuming i was a woman}, maybe he jsut wanted to let a secret out and not be lonely in his existance anymore, maybe he was just excited about whhat he cud do, maybe he wanted to show off, maybe he wanted to explain the reasons behind his actions or the circumstances he was in in life which seemed to hae no normal reason for them.
get it?