No. Zero Hour Parallax was one of the most powerful beings ever created yes, probably top 5 in comics ever. But Pre-Retcon Molecule Man was #2, only below the Pre-Retcon Beyonder.
Nvr is just trying to say Mxy could beat Molecule Man to boost up SMP's rep, this way he can say SMP can beat the Living Tribunal too.
LOL me DC biased thats funny
I dont even agree with Nvr that much...i think parallax beat spectre in xero hour ,i dont think nvr agrees with me, and amongst other disagreements we have had, i always treat him with respect and expect the same in return, people should try it sometime, we never resort to insulting eachother over debates, i dont see that from other posters...i wonder why
DC bias... that is still making me laugh, if only people knew...oh well
Originally posted by Photon009
No. Zero Hour Parallax was one of the most powerful beings ever created yes, probably top 5 in comics ever. But Pre-Retcon Molecule Man was #2, only below the Pre-Retcon Beyonder.Nvr is just trying to say Mxy could beat Molecule Man to boost up SMP's rep, this way he can say SMP can beat the Living Tribunal too.
That makes no sense. And by feats, neither the PR Beyonder, or Molecule Man hold a candle to The LT, MJJ, Merlyn, Scarlet witch, Parallax, SPectre, Lucifer, Mike, Mxy, ect.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That makes no sense. And by feats, neither the PR Beyonder, or Molecule Man hold a candle to The LT, MJJ, Merlyn, Scarlet witch, Parallax, SPectre, Lucifer, Mike, Mxy, ect.
By feats, perhaps not. However, your back door approach completely ignores the actual story of them and their origins.
Originally posted by Cubicks
By feats, perhaps not. However, your back door approach completely ignores the actual story of them and their origins.
Not really. By people trying to give the two preretconned guys an auto win against anyone who they think is less than the LT, they forget that the LT has NEVER been lower than these two. So the only way to look at these two guys as if they were part of a whole other company, or an alternate timeline. Which means that They where never greater than the LT who exist outside of the story. People try to use the LT who was never less than these two, as a measuring stick to the one who was depicted in the story. The logic proves to be wrong. The Molecule man by his origins his a human being whom the LT could wipe out with a blink of his eye. Hell he could wipe out every human in every universe within the omniverse if he so chose. He's nothing like the quivering weakling depicted in the secret wars.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That makes no sense. And by feats, neither the PR Beyonder, or Molecule Man hold a candle to The LT, MJJ, Merlyn, Scarlet witch, Parallax, SPectre, Lucifer, Mike, Mxy, ect.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Not really. By people trying to give the two preretconned guys an auto win against anyone who they think is less than the LT, they forget that the LT has NEVER been lower than these two. So the only way to look at these two guys as if they were part of a whole other company, or an alternate timeline. Which means that They where never greater than the LT who exist outside of the story. People try to use the LT who was never less than these two, as a measuring stick to the one who was depicted in the story. The logic proves to be wrong. The Molecule man by his origins his a human being whom the LT could wipe out with a blink of his eye. Hell he could wipe out every human in every universe within the omniverse if he so chose. He's nothing like the quivering weakling depicted in the secret wars.
I understand what you mean. However, in Secret Wars and in that continuity of that time, they were greater than LT.
Don't fault the character because LT was not well defined at the time.
Having any comic character that powerful without any flaws would be pretty boring to read because there would never be any conflict.
Originally posted by Air Legend
PR Beyonder puts all the other's feats to shame. PR Beyonder erased Death to the extent that only he had the power to bring it back. Not even the LT could bring Death back after the Beyonder had erased her. Mxy has more impressive feats than Mike and Lucifer, but would he beat them? Hell no. That's why you also acknowledge what the writer says, something you ignore all too much when it comes to Marvel. Oh and try reading Secret Wars II, especially issue #7.
Air. My slow friend. Just try and use your deductive and reasoning skills. The LT depicted in the RETCONNED story couldn't bring death back. A story that does not exist to the CURRENT LT. TO him, the events NEVER happened. So to say that he couldn't bring back death is foolish given that those events never happened to the LT.
Originally posted by Cubicks
I understand what you mean. However, in Secret Wars and in that continuity of that time, they were greater than LT.
Don't fault the character because LT was not well defined at the time.
Having any comic character that powerful without any flaws would be pretty boring to read because there would never be any conflict.
The point is, that even if they were greater than the LT depicted in that story, its not the the actual LT. It was a dream. So even if we say it was another universe, it wouldn't count for the actual LT as the events never happened to him.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Air. My slow friend. Just try and use your deductive and reasoning skills. The LT depicted in the RETCONNED story couldn't bring death back. A story that does not exist to the CURRENT LT. TO him, the events NEVER happened. So to say that he couldn't bring back death is foolish given that those events never happened to the LT.
I see you're back to claiming the LT was retconned. So now people are going to prove the LT is the same LT. Once that is proved, you're going to say because the LT has never been retconned, the LT wins. Then people are going to prove that Classic MM is greater than the LT and you're going to go back to the LT WAS retconned again, and on and on until infinity, because that is what intransigence does. 🙄
Originally posted by Air Legend
Since when did I become your friend? 🤨I see you're back to claiming the LT was retconned. So now people are going to prove the LT is the same LT. Once that is proved, you're going to say because the LT has never been retconned, the LT wins. Then people are going to prove that Classic MM is greater than the LT and you're going to go back to the LT WAS retconned again, and on and on until infinity, because that is what intransigence does. 🙄
NO. The LT was never retconned. There simply is another LT depicted in a story that was a Dream. Two LT's. I have come to the conclusion that Since the story is just a dream to the Actual LT, THe LT depicted in the story isn't the same at all. Thus the current LT, cannot be used as a measuring stick to the one in the dream, since it is NOT him.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO. The LT was never retconned. There simply is another LT depicted in a story that was a Dream. Two LT's. I have come to the conclusion that Since the story is just a dream to the Actual LT, THe LT depicted in the story isn't the same at all. Thus the current LT, cannot be used as a measuring stick to the one in the dream, since it is NOT him.
Originally posted by Air Legend
There is only one LT. On panel and in the bios.
The story is not some dream. The retcon makes it so it never happened. But that doesn't matter since the thread stipulates that we are going by pre-retcon days, so we use the same LT since there is only one (on panel and in the bios), and therefore Classic MM wins in a curbstomp.
You fail. The story never happend to the current LT. which means that Preretconned Molecule man's status means nothing to him. Which means we have to go by on panel feats. Without Molecule Man's supposed status against the Current LT, what would you have? Nothing. Becuz he's done nothing on panel to put him in the higher tiers of cosmic beings. The LT would laugh at a being who's never even affected a megaverse. Hell the Molecule man has done less on panel than the UN. You cannot compare A to B+ when B+ never interacted with A.
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Since when ? I am only aware of 3 multiverses in Vertigo. Lucifer's, Yahweh's, and Elaine's.
check it when lucifer steps outside of creation. YOu also realize that every story that happens in vertigo is a different creation. They aren't linked unless specific to the lucifer/dream multiverses.
Originally posted by Air Legend
There is only one LT. On panel and in the bios.
The story is not some dream. The retcon makes it so it never happened. But that doesn't matter since the thread stipulates that we are going by pre-retcon days, so we use the same LT since there is only one (on panel and in the bios), and therefore Classic MM wins in a curbstomp.
So I'll just stick to my quote.