Originally posted by BloodRain
Wha? Who said a PL10 Goku couldn't dodge a bullet? The point was that increasing their speed based on their PL doesnt work with that being an example. As in PL100 isnt twice as fast as PL50 if we only go by numbers. Chichi wasnt much above the other fodder in the 23rd budokai.Actually I was refering to the manga, in the same way you decide that it took a second to blast the moon im using that to show how his charged beam was slower. In other words you can get a speed without a time reference.
Check the scans of the Chun vs Krillin match. He launches himself back to the arena with the kamehameha, he'd be launched as fast as the beam itself yet we have people able to keep track of him. Obviously cant be lightspeed if they can keep up.
20 times with every breath isnt impressive and his arms look like a blur.. a common thing for super speed punches. "Hyperboles are exaggerations to create emphasis or effect." Like Naruto's Ameterasu flames being hotter than the Sun but not able to burn someone if a sheet of cloth is in the way. Or theres Vegeta's attack being called Big Bang attack which causes an explosion, doesnt mean he's actually creating a big bang. It, like Tiens, is only a name to emphasise the moves power/speed.
Cept we know that Raditz speed < Saiyan Goku's who is Mach17. Thus the beam was naturally below this speed too. Youve even admited to Saiyan Goku not being able to fly at FTL speeds. Dont jump back on that because it'll lead to their reactions being under FTL too.
Theres only one (very questionable) thing that even hints to FTL with currently six characters that denounce FTL speeds.
With the characters movements (eg Saiyan Goku) not being close to SoL we're assured that the beams arent SoL for being not much faster than these characters.(eg Raditz)
With the beams not being SoL it takes away any hope of the Z fighters reacting to light speed moves.
I can see why youre going back on what you said a moment ago; "even though Goku was unable to fly around at light during the beginning of the Saiyan Saga"
I simply asked you to name someone with a weaker PL being faster than someone with a higher PL. That is the only way to help your argument. With an increase in PL comes an increase in speed, durablity, and power which has been shown throughout DBZ history. I already mentioned numerous of references to this and you have yet to counter it.
Then I asked you to show me a human in DBZ seeing a Z fighters attack and you throw off a young Krillin who wasn't even experieced with the kamehameha as an argument to aid you. Again, you are pulling straws.
I give you the Tien argument but if Akira placed in the story that Tien is punching at light, why ignore it?
I guess you don't get the meaning of reflexes. Goku AND Raditz reflexes is above light and this was proven when Raditz dodged a FTL attack from Piccolo that was faster than his random attack that hit the moon. If something happened in "a panel" it either happened in a second or instantly... a single panel is nothing but seconds which is all it took for Piccolo blast to hit the moon. As soon as he shot the moon lit up.
You might have something that discredits DBZ characters not being able to fly at light (even though you haven't proved it yet) but you don't have anything proving that their reflexes is below "c". Vegeta has shown that he can see/react/outpace light speed attacks. Goku as a child has outpaced light speed attacks... Raditz has dodged light speed attacks. It has been shown that with more power comes more speed with your attacks and movement. Then we have Burta moving so fast that time itself stopped (they were doing this in DB also).
Why is it so difficult for you to accept their speed?
Also, I'm still waiting on something proving that humans can react to DBZ attacks.
