Son Goku vs Dark Schneider (Bastard)!!

goku survived the explosion of namek he was beaten up hard and could only go to ssj1 .goku ssj4 can survive multy galaxy explosion cuz he is unimaginably stronger that goku in frieza saga.goku ssj4 is million times stronger than frieza who in his 1st form( a much weak form compared to his final form) destroyed planet vegeta easily than makes goku ssj4 almost universal buster.goku went to namek in 6 days with a massively ftl space ship goku ssj4 is thousands maybe million times faster than a massively ftl spaceship.he could move hypersonic even as a kid and at sol in android saga that makes goku gt again massively ftl.

Originally posted by carver9
That was a sparring contest between 2 kids. Of course they wouldn't put anything in their blast. I'm referring to blasting attacks in a serious fight... not from kids that are playing around.

Anyhow, already been proven. That was just to further drive the point home.

Originally posted by Karagiannis
goku survived the explosion of namek he was beaten up hard and could only go to ssj1 .goku ssj4 can survive multy galaxy explosion cuz he is unimaginably stronger that goku in frieza saga.goku ssj4 is million times stronger than frieza who in his 1st form( a much weak form compared to his final form) destroyed planet vegeta easily than makes goku ssj4 almost universal buster.goku went to namek in 6 days with a massively ftl space ship goku ssj4 is thousands maybe million times faster than a massively ftl spaceship.he could move hypersonic even as a kid and at sol in android saga that makes goku gt again massively ftl.

So SSJ1 can survive a planet busting, and SSJ4 can survive something a million times stronger than a planet blowing up, that right?

Lets see... what takes a million times the force needed to blow up a planet... ah here we go: the Sun 😐

In fact blowing up Sun takes 1 billion times the force needed to blow up Namek.

Its obvious you don't grasp how scaling works.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Oh so the Kamehameha can change speeds now? Has this been mentioned or is this what you think.

Anyhow, already been proven. That was just to further drive the point home.

No we have a problem with double posting. Triple it worse, especially when you do it only to post a dancing banana.. so stop doing it.

So SSJ1 can survive a planet busting, and SSJ4 can survive something a million times stronger than a planet blowing up, that right?

Lets see... what takes a million times the force needed to blow up a planet... ah here we go: the Sun 😐

In fact blowing up Sun takes 1 billion times the force needed to blow up Namek.

Its obvious you don't grasp how scaling works.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Oh so the Kamehameha can change speeds now? Has this been mentioned or is this what you think.

Anyhow, already been proven. That was just to further drive the point home.

No we have a problem with double posting. Triple it worse, especially when you do it only to post a dancing banana.. so stop doing it.

So SSJ1 can survive a planet busting, and SSJ4 can survive something a million times stronger than a planet blowing up, that right?

Lets see... what takes a million times the force needed to blow up a planet... ah here we go: the Sun 😐

In fact blowing up Sun takes 1 billion times the force needed to blow up Namek.

Its obvious you don't grasp how scaling works.

Yes, the Kamahameha can change speeds, direction, and width when it comes to DBZ characters. They have COMPLETE control of their KI attacks.

You have to do better than that...THEN like I said before, it was done by 2 kids that doesn't have a shed of experience.

Problem, you 'think' it wont, thats only your opinion. Fact is the only person who is at a star level may be Vegito. Whether we go by powerlevels or not. And lets say SSJ4 is somehow a trillion times stronger, thats only a small... tiny percent of whats needed for a galaxy level.

Give or take;
Sun busting is 0.00000000001% Galaxy busting...
Galaxy busting is 0.000000000001% Universe busting.....

From feats the best DBZ has shown is planatary+... and you people want tp hype this to a galaxy/universal level?

Carver: Funny how this is only a point 'after' i post the scan and not before.. hm. Anyhow like i said, scans have already been posted to prove that and are waiting your response, like Buu's where its as plain as day that people are reacting to it.

im not sure if your calculations are right but goku is a multygalaxy buster.ACCEPT IT 💃 💃 💃 💃 💃 💃

or universe buster.

They're pretty much correct based of the energy needed to destroy a sun, galaxy and universe. If you're able to understand them you'd know that Goku cant even be a Star buster.

So you still think Goku is a universe buster? This either proves you dont understand the scale between a planet and the entire universe or you do understand the scale but really, really don't want Goku to lose. Is that it? Do you just not want your fav character to lose so youre not going to listen to what anyone else says?

And for the love of..... edit your post, don't make a double.

ok no more double posting.but why you dontlike it tell me?cmon even some dbz haters know that goku is more that star buster

Originally posted by BloodRain
They're pretty much correct based of the energy needed to destroy a sun, galaxy and universe. If you're able to understand them you'd know that Goku cant even be a Star buster.

So you still think Goku is a universe buster? This either proves you dont understand the scale between a planet and [b]the entire universe or you do understand the scale but really, really don't want Goku to lose. Is that it? Do you just not want your fav character to lose so youre not going to listen to what anyone else says?

And for the love of..... edit your post, don't make a double. [/B]

Are you really truly saying that Goku can't shed are STAR? Vegeta at the PL of 18000 had enough power to wreck shop to a planet. A star ain't sh** to Black Hair Goku let alone Frieza or even people below Frieza. Get that out of here.

After that comment, its pointless for me to post to any other post you say about DBZ. You are CLEARLY low balling.

Nice debating with ya blood rain.

Kara: Its annoying, takes up space, unnecessary if it can be edited in and can be considered spam by others. Thank you.

Fan or hater it doesn't matter. If they judge it based of hyperbole, non-canon events like movies/GT/anime or overall illogical ideas then their views don't mean much. The highest canon feat of destruction in the manga is iirc destroying a large planet. With sensible scaling the strongest canon character, Vegito, can possibly destroy the Sun.

The Earth to the Sun is a large difference, its like a tank to the Moon.

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Carver: See its funny, you stand by this view 100% yet when it comes down to it you've failed to provide evidence on every single point.

You haven't shown proof of star+ busting, you haven't shown proof of FTL characters, you haven't shown proof to show statements. Instead you've only voiced your opinion on events and avoided answering questions, then complain to me about my opinion when I give evidence mostly on your request?

Heres what I want you to do:
1. Provide us with evidence of end of Z characters being above Star level. Keeping in mind that;
- No hyperbole or faulty scaling will suffice.
- No one has actually been shown destroying anything of this size.
- Star busting needs 1,000,000,000 times the force of a planet buster.

2. Provide us with evidence of end of Z characters having FTL movement or reaction speeds. Keeping in mind that;
- No hyperbole or faulty scaling will suffice.
- Gotenks has the fastest calced speed of Mach1000.
- Gotenks circling the Earth the amount he did in the time he did doesn't make him SoL, actually with the time frame we're confirmed to have at under 20mins would place him near Mach1000 again.
- Beams can still be seen by humans, example being Buu's genocide attack where its plain to see humans reacting to them.
- Piccolo's attack must have a time-frame assigned to it or else it shall be left as unquantifiable.
- Freeza's beam is only faster than the reactions of Gohan's level, characters who get get blitzed by beings in the high double digit Mach area.

If you can answer these two simple questions with manga scans, evidence and without dancing around/avoiding the point then and only then can you, as a debater, question my opinion. 😐
Should be relatively easy if your opinion is correct and not fabricated.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Kara: Its annoying, takes up space, unnecessary if it can be edited in and can be considered spam by others. Thank you.

Fan or hater it doesn't matter. If they judge it based of hyperbole, non-canon events like movies/GT/anime or overall illogical ideas then their views don't mean much. The highest canon feat of destruction in the manga is iirc destroying a large planet. With sensible scaling the strongest canon character, Vegito, can possibly destroy the Sun.

The Earth to the Sun is a large difference, its like a tank to the Moon.

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Carver: See its funny, you stand by this view 100% yet when it comes down to it you've failed to provide evidence on every single point.

You haven't shown proof of star+ busting, you haven't shown proof of FTL characters, you haven't shown proof to show statements. Instead you've only voiced your opinion on events and avoided answering questions, then complain to me about my opinion when I give evidence mostly on your request?

Heres what I want you to do:
1. Provide us with evidence of end of Z characters being above Star level. Keeping in mind that;
- No hyperbole or faulty scaling will suffice.
- No one has actually been shown destroying anything of this size.
- Star busting needs 1,000,000,000 times the force of a planet buster.

2. Provide us with evidence of end of Z characters having FTL movement or reaction speeds. Keeping in mind that;
- No hyperbole or faulty scaling will suffice.
- Gotenks has the fastest calced speed of Mach1000.
- Gotenks circling the Earth the amount he did in the time he did doesn't make him SoL, actually with the time frame we're confirmed to have at under 20mins would place him near Mach1000 again.
- Beams can still be seen by humans, example being Buu's genocide attack where its plain to see humans reacting to them.
- Piccolo's attack must have a time-frame assigned to it or else it shall be left as unquantifiable.
- Freeza's beam is only faster than the reactions of Gohan's level, characters who get get blitzed by beings in the high double digit Mach area.

If you can answer these two simple questions with manga scans, evidence and without dancing around/avoiding the point then and only then can you, as a debater, question my opinion. 😐
Should be relatively easy if your opinion is correct and not fabricated.

I can easily prove these things... its up for you to accept it. Your light speed comment...

1. Kid Goku outraced the Solar Flare.
2. Piccolo shot a blast at the moon which reached it in one panel but his most powerful blast failed to hit Raditz.
3. King Ki was able to detect a space ship that was flying through space at 1000s of times the speed of light and he did it EASILY (which proves that he can perceive objects at light speed) AND he did it on more than one occasion. He didn't perceive Goku, he caught the SHIP but with these same senses he was unable to keep track of Goku and Frieza... he ADMITTED that he couldn't follow their movements, they were to fast for him 2 see.

4. If Raditz is ftl then everything after the Radtz saga is ftl as well... multidudes faster.

5. Krillin and Roshi taunted, communicated, fought, played a game of rock paper scissors, fought some more, and talked again and did ALL of this in less than 1/5 of a second. They didn't just throw a punch at 1/5 of a second, they basically lived in less time for you to even get the thought to say 1. That alone is almost damn near a nano second feat. Then after the 1/5 of a second, they fought some more within ONE SECOND of a time period. This was dragonball at their WEAKEST. Light speed ain't crap to them. I just youtube Frieza pissing on light speed.

As for your comment about star busting... if a guy with a power level of 100 can turn a moon into sprinkles... star busting ain't crap. Cell also admitted that he was capable of destroying a Solar System and you had numerous of power level readers out there who believed him. Akira did an interview claiming this was true and Akira put those words in Cell mouth for a reason. Then the thing about it is, that was Cell firstt initial blast... the BEGINNING of the blast was solar system busting... a couple of min later, it was so much more. You better not come back at me with that collateral damage crap because using that argument would make Spiderman>Superman or Krillin>Thanos.

Another point I forgot to add to the flowchart: Pulling random numbers out of your ass

Me and everyone else that knows FTL is faulty you mean.

1. Him moving after the light is your assumption, not a fact you can prove in any way. Opinion<fact. Also contradicted by Snake Way and later showings.
2. Failed to get a time-frame for the 6th time now. Opinion<facts.
3. Before I say how detecting a linear moving ship is different to following combat speed and how detecting an object =/= following ki Id like to see the scan of both these instances. Also disproved by Namek level speed.
4. Raditz isnt FTL... again disproved with Snake Way and later showings.
5. Lol did you just guess nanosecond? Hope you realise that a nanosec is 0.000000001 seconds.. Oysh, seeing as you're unable to actually give me a speed I'll do the for and get one for you. Right then, Roshi did max 20 movements [actually 14, but longer moves puts the count up] and youre mistaken, it didnt take them 0.2 seconds to do all of that, Krillin states that them 'thinking' took 0.2 seconds. 0.5 would be the min. Lets take away everything but the 7 action movements [run, kick, punch, dodge, jump, kick, pose] then say that was only 0.05secs.. thats 0.007 secs per move, around 140m/s. If you don't care about this then this will do too; 20 movements in '0.2' (`-`) seconds, each move takes 0.01 seconds, 100m/s in a melee range. Or basically < Roshi bullet timing.

^Im starting to think you dont actually get the speed of things.. calling that fight a nanosecond feat when its not even close, saying how Gotenks' 5 loops in a some time makes him FTL when its actually 9 in 1sec to be SoL or Buu's beam being FTL just because it covered the Earth in a short while. TBH I think youre guessing now.

Think we should put the hyperbole down before someone gets hurt. And sorry, who exactly in the mange believed him? And theres the opinion again, what Im hearing is; "even though no ones ever star busted and even though theres no proof that end of Z are a billion times more destructive then a planet busting I still think they can, and so should you" And nice analogies at the end, completely pointless and wrong, but nice. Ill keep yelling scales and billions times damage until you can prove it.

Btw did you miss the part where I said "Provide us with evidence" - "No hyperbole or faulty scaling will suffice."? 'cause so far 6/6 points have been an event backed by your opinion, not facts. How do you expect to convince anyone without backing things up?

Also there's the fact that if you think Kid Goku actually outran the taiyoken, you must also think he's faster than the likes of Vegeta, Dodoria, Trunks, and all of the other stronger characters who were hit by it.

bloodrain its obvious that you dont like dragonball at all and you are trying to make goku a weak character.goku is multy galaxy buster

Lol really?

"and DBZ being the greatest anime of my childhood with Goku still being one of the greatest heroes in anime. And if there was a way to prove that they're FTL universe busters I'd be all over it..... but there isnt. Be rational about this."

Guess I watched DB/Z/GT several times, watching Kai now, read the manga and brought several games because I don't like it right?

Difference is that most people here are Dragon Ball fans who aren't bias.

How about I post how you do? DS is obviously a universe buster cos hes a million times stronger then guys who blow up galaxys. And hes a trillion times FTL, proof is read Bastard!! [insert dancing banana here]... =| its fun to claim things isn't it?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Also there's the fact that if you think Kid Goku actually outran the taiyoken, you must also think he's faster than the likes of Vegeta, Dodoria, Trunks, and all of the other stronger characters who were hit by it.

The only reason they were hit by it was because they weren't aware of the attack like Goku was and even then, they probably thought they could tank it since it tends to come from a weakling.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Me and everyone else that knows FTL is faulty you mean.

1. Him moving after the light is your assumption, not a fact you can prove in any way. Opinion<fact. Also contradicted by Snake Way and later showings.
2. Failed to get a time-frame for the 6th time now. Opinion<facts.
3. Before I say how detecting a linear moving ship is different to following combat speed and how detecting an object =/= following ki Id like to see the scan of both these instances. Also disproved by Namek level speed.
4. Raditz isnt FTL... again disproved with Snake Way and later showings.
5. Lol did you just guess nanosecond? Hope you realise that a nanosec is 0.000000001 seconds.. Oysh, seeing as you're unable to actually give me a speed I'll do the for and get one for you. Right then, Roshi did max 20 movements [actually 14, but longer moves puts the count up] and youre mistaken, it didnt take them 0.2 seconds to do all of that, Krillin states that them 'thinking' took 0.2 seconds. 0.5 would be the min. Lets take away everything but the 7 action movements [run, kick, punch, dodge, jump, kick, pose] then say that was only 0.05secs.. thats 0.007 secs per move, around 140m/s. If you don't care about this then this will do too; 20 movements in '0.2' (`-`) seconds, each move takes 0.01 seconds, 100m/s in a melee range. Or basically < Roshi bullet timing.

^Im starting to think you dont actually get the speed of things.. calling that fight a nanosecond feat when its not even close, saying how Gotenks' 5 loops in a some time makes him FTL when its actually 9 in 1sec to be SoL or Buu's beam being FTL just because it covered the Earth in a short while. TBH I think youre guessing now.

Think we should put the hyperbole down before someone gets hurt. And sorry, who exactly in the mange believed him? And theres the opinion again, what Im hearing is; "even though no ones ever star busted and even though theres no proof that end of Z are a billion times more destructive then a planet busting I still think they can, and so should you" And nice analogies at the end, completely pointless and wrong, but nice. Ill keep yelling scales and billions times damage until you can prove it.

Btw did you miss the part where I said "Provide us with evidence" - "No hyperbole or faulty scaling will suffice."? 'cause so far 6/6 points have been an event backed by your opinion, not facts. How do you expect to convince anyone without backing things up?

Ummm... if someone can detect a object moving thousands of times the speed of light, a small object in the huge area of space moving at those tremendous speeds with EASE... it doesn't matter if it is moving in a straight line, circle, doing the cha cha slide, etc, etc, if someone can detect something moving at light speed, then they can see light speed movements and again, he did it with ease.

King Ki couldn't see ANY of Goku and Frieza battle, they were moving TOO fast for them. So "a", we have a character that can detect object faster than light... "b", we have Frieza and Goku moving to fast for him to see and "c", you are trying to throw a being that is capable of seeing at light eyes a lowball since he was incapable of seeing Freiza and Goku fight. That's half crazy.

Goku and Freiza were moving past C, that's why he couldn't see them fighting. They were moving GREATER than C on a high scale.

So I ask, if I am able to see at light, will I be able to see a being that is fighting at mach 5000 if they were fighting in a zig zag. By the way, when King Ki tracked Goku ship, he commented on how fast the ship was going and still caught up with it.

Sorry for the double post but Bloodrain... you will never find a character destroying Galaxy's and Universes in DBZ because there is always someone to stop them and it would take away from the plot of the story but what we do know is that DBZ put a PL chart in place for us and we have a place to start which is 100 PL= moon busting... Roshi admitted that Goku by the end of DB could generate more power than him so I feel pretty much safe to say that Goku by the end of DB could probably destroy half of Earth or probably the entire planet if he tried.

If you want examples of PL being higher=someone capable of generating more power, I could easily prove that.