If they had FTL reactions it wouldn't matter if they were aware or not as they'd have the time to evade, react or even blink... having FTL reactions 'n all.
--------------
Not liking the post😖can ratio here. Had 16 pages to get the scans now.
Also Namek chars speed & Gotenks still disproves this.
Originally posted by carver9
you will never find a character destroying Galaxy's and Universes in DBZ
Everyone knows that a higher PL has more power, the main standing issue is that there is no correlation when it comes to by how much it increases. And as anything after Freeza would need made-up powerlevels theres no way to say how much more power later characters have.
Rough calcs looking at moon bustings PL180 to planet bustings PL18,000 says that, if it were in fact linear, you'd need a PL of 2,760,267,852,000 to blow up the Sun.. Just to give an example of what you would need if PL scaling was actually linear by increase.. which its not.
If you want to say that Vegito is a Star buster then I wouldn't mind agreeing to it, nothing more though.
-----------------------------
I come baring gifts~ Daizenshuu 7 mentions that a kiri (Babidi's version of PL to measure their energy output specifically) of 200-300 can destroy 1 or 2 planets. According to Babidi, Buu saga SSJ1 Goku has a kiri of 3,000, compared to Dabura who is around the who equals Cell. Just something to think about concerning their power output and how strong Buu saga characters are.
Originally posted by BloodRain
If they had FTL reactions it wouldn't matter if they were aware or not as they'd have the time to evade, react or even blink... having FTL reactions 'n all.
--------------Not liking the post😖can ratio here. Had 16 pages to get the scans now.
Also Namek chars speed & Gotenks still disproves this.
How is this post not the topic ender? Sorry but your scale is way to off to be taken in. Because end of DB Goku had less than double Roshi's 180 'moon busting' PL he, in your opinion, is a planet buster? How does this make sense to you? If you're PL scaling then 2xmoon=/=earth. If you're not then from where did you get the idea that Goku has that much more power than him.
Everyone knows that a higher PL has more power, the main standing issue is that there is no correlation when it comes to by how much it increases. And as anything after Freeza would need made-up powerlevels theres no way to say how much more power later characters have.
Rough calcs looking at moon bustings PL180 to planet bustings PL18,000 says that, if it were in fact linear, you'd need a PL of 2,760,267,852,000 to blow up the Sun.. Just to give an example of what you would need if PL scaling was actually linear by increase.. which its not.
If you want to say that Vegito is a Star buster then I wouldn't mind agreeing to it, nothing more though.
-----------------------------I come baring gifts~ Daizenshuu 7 mentions that a kiri (Babidi's version of PL to measure their energy output specifically) of 200-300 can destroy 1 or 2 planets. According to Babidi, Buu saga SSJ1 Goku has a kiri of 3,000, compared to Dabura who is around the who equals Cell. Just something to think about concerning their power output and how strong Buu saga characters are.
What are you talking about? It was a "surprise" attack. None of the people that got hit by that attack knew its capabilties or what it would do. I'm pretty sure they thought they would be able to tank it since it came from a weakling like Krillin. That is why the attack is never tried again on someone that knows about it or has been hit by it because its a 100% chance that it will either be avoid/outpaced or countered.
I don't get your comment about scans. What do you mean and what are you asking for?
Namek char speed or Gotenks speed doesn't disprove anything since for 1 we have no type of correlation or statements stating that anyone in DBZ was giving it their ALL while flying. Then another thing, Frieza and Goku fight was mainly reflex/small burst of speed which is different than mapping the entire planet. I always admitted that their reaction/burst of speed is>their flight. Example... Nimbus has flown around the world at short amounts of time... Goku during the beginning of Z could fly but he was nowhere CLOSE to Nimbus speed. If you were to place Kid Goku and Nimbus in a ring, Goku would outpace it easily. Hell, Goku would be completely invisible the entire time.
Uuummm... Roshi stated that Goku PL was on another level. Hell, Roshi couldn't even gaze upon Goku power when he shot the kamehameha wave at Junior. The powerlevel between Roshi and Goku wasn't that much of a difference. Goku had him only by a hundred and something and Goku was more powerful and far too fast for Roshi to even see during combat. Same for Piccolo and Goku. Goku and Piccolo power wasn't that far off but Goku blast over powered Piccolos and Goku was too fast for him and again, the gap in power was small. Same with Goku and Vegeta... Goku had a PL of 20k and Vegeta was 18k and that small difference resulted in Vegeta getting blitzed, blast being over powered by Goku blast and a major durablity difference.
As for you other comment, you are clearly lowballing if you don't think Black Hair Goku or Frieza could destroy a star. I would go as far to say that Nappa could possibly do it.
As for your other comment... well, we have proof that King Ki can see at speeds FAR greater than light and we have proof that King Ki couldn't see Goku or Frieza fight. We also have proof that King Ki admitted that Saiyan Saga Vegeta and Nappa are more powerful than him which means that Vegeta and Nappa could see objects faster than him since they would have the speed advantage.
You get my point 🙂.
Scans for all the moments you're trying to prove.
So Gohan/Krillin weren't urgently trying to get to the Grand Elder? And Freeza wasn't desperately racing to get to the Dragon before it granted the wishes? Or the arrogant speed-showoff Gotenks wasn't speeding off for the rematch? If they could do small, quick bursts at FTL then those characters could have covered Namek in 0.1 seconds, and Goku could do Snake Way in 1. A small hop at FTL speeds can cross planets.. Dont remember Nimbus being that fast, iirc DB😮rigins say its 400mph+ and the manga has being slower than a missile, scan if ya can. Only reason he uses it for flight in Z is to conserve energy. Jumped the topic, point is a small burst of FTL movement can send someone planetary distances.
PL didnt exist in universe until Z. Inconsistency#71; saying a small PL difference can mean alot when we have Freeza not being completely dominated by Goku who's PL was 30million higher than his. If a small difference really meant much then Goku could have killed multiple times without breaking a sweat.
What the calc is lowballing? If you dont like it then fine, give me your solid proof (not opinion) that normal Goku or Nappa can destroy a Sun so i can see your method and check if you get the scale.
Scannsss. Oh and being more powerful has noting to do with his powers/skills.
>: Ya didnt take my gift of the Daizenshuu confirming Planet busting+ only.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jhgxrzTsoA
THIS IS THE EXACT TOP 5
Originally posted by BloodRain
Scans for all the moments you're trying to prove.So Gohan/Krillin weren't urgently trying to get to the Grand Elder? And Freeza wasn't desperately racing to get to the Dragon before it granted the wishes? Or the arrogant speed-showoff Gotenks wasn't speeding off for the rematch? If they could do small, quick bursts at FTL then those characters could have covered Namek in 0.1 seconds, and Goku could do Snake Way in 1. A small hop at FTL speeds can cross planets.. Dont remember Nimbus being that fast, iirc DB😮rigins say its 400mph+ and the manga has being slower than a missile, scan if ya can. Only reason he uses it for flight in Z is to conserve energy. Jumped the topic, point is a small burst of FTL movement can send someone planetary distances.
PL didnt exist in universe until Z. Inconsistency#71; saying a small PL difference can mean alot when we have Freeza not being completely dominated by Goku who's PL was 30million higher than his. If a small difference really meant much then Goku could have killed multiple times without breaking a sweat.
What the calc is lowballing? If you dont like it then fine, give me your solid proof (not opinion) that normal Goku or Nappa can destroy a Sun so i can see your method and check if you get the scale.
Scannsss. Oh and being more powerful has noting to do with his powers/skills.
>: Ya didnt take my gift of the Daizenshuu confirming Planet busting+ only.
Reread the Frieza Saga... its there. The rest of you post, I'm not responding to.
''No, you find my proof for me." 😕
So you're really not going to provide any evidence for anything you've claimed? 😬
Reread the Frieza saga? You should take that adice:
Krillin taking an hour to reach the Elder-
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F292_46_%2FDB292-02.jpg
Was Kurillin casually going over to the Elder? No he was rushing for the sake of making the wish before mass death came upon him.
Vegeta starts-
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F293_46_%2FDB293-08.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F293_46_%2FDB293-09.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F293_46_%2FDB293-10.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F293_46_%2FDB293-11.GIF
-Vegeta gets there. In the time it took Vegeta to cover that distance they spoke about the wish, made it and spoke about it again. Was Vegeta taking his time to get there? No he was speeding to stop them and get his immortality.
Frieza speeds off-
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F293_46_%2FDB293-13.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F293_46_%2FDB293-14.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F294_46_%2FDB294-03.jpg
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F294_46_%2FDB294-04.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F294_46_%2FDB294-05.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F294_46_%2FDB294-06.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F294_46_%2FDB294-07.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F294_46_%2FDB294-08.GIF
-Frieza gets there. Took a conversation, threat, explanation, Dragon death, ball/rock drop, explanation, realization then Frieza gets there. And was he leisurely strolling over? No he was, like Vegeta, racing to stop them from stealing his use of the wish.
Not even going to post the scans of how long it took Piccolo to get there.
Truthly I didn't think you'd respond, especially how the kiri basically says SSJ1 Goku is only a planet buster+. Next time provide the proof to back up your claims. 😐
Originally posted by BloodRain
''No, you find my proof for me." 😕So you're really not going to provide any evidence for anything you've claimed? 😬
Reread the Frieza saga? You should take that adice:
Krillin taking an hour to reach the Elder-
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F292_46_%2FDB292-02.jpg
Was Kurillin casually going over to the Elder? No he was rushing for the sake of making the wish before mass death came upon him.Vegeta starts-
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F293_46_%2FDB293-08.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F293_46_%2FDB293-09.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F293_46_%2FDB293-10.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F293_46_%2FDB293-11.GIF
-Vegeta gets there. In the time it took Vegeta to cover that distance they spoke about the wish, made it and spoke about it again. Was Vegeta taking his time to get there? No he was speeding to stop them and get his immortality.Frieza speeds off-
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F293_46_%2FDB293-13.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F293_46_%2FDB293-14.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F294_46_%2FDB294-03.jpg
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F294_46_%2FDB294-04.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F294_46_%2FDB294-05.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F294_46_%2FDB294-06.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F294_46_%2FDB294-07.GIF
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F294_46_%2FDB294-08.GIF
-Frieza gets there. Took a conversation, threat, explanation, Dragon death, ball/rock drop, explanation, realization then Frieza gets there. And was he leisurely strolling over? No he was, like Vegeta, racing to stop them from stealing his use of the wish.Not even going to post the scans of how long it took Piccolo to get there.
Truthly I didn't think you'd respond, especially how the kiri basically says SSJ1 Goku is only a planet buster+. Next time provide the proof to back up your claims. 😐
You've completely missed my point. Can I ask something? What site are you getting these scans from?
That would be very helpful.
By the way, your Krillin scan is false since he made it there and back faster than what Gohun said and THEN he had someone with him that was slowing him down.
Frieza basically had to guide himself with his scouter. He didn't know the exact location of Gohun and the crew, that's why he was waiting unitl every beep. Then you do not understand the meaning of combat speed vs flight speed.
When did Krillin say that Goku limits was only a planet buster? I remember Piccolo saying that a weaker version of Frieza can destroy planet Namek instantly.
The proof is so simple that the DBZ characters combat speed is FAR greater than their flight. When they are in Mid Combat, they are moving around so fast that the entire fight is basically invisible to even GODS eye and Super Human eyes. No one can see them during combat. When they are flying around, they don't share this luxury... they are clearly seeable/visible to the site vs them completely being invisible to the eye during combat. If Krillin/Vegeta/Frieza flew to their locations at blinding speeds, the same speeds that they move at when fighting opponents... then you could have an argument but they DON'T because they conserve energy. Even when they take off its not at the same pace of their combat speed.
Your post fails.
Originally posted by carver9
The proof is so simple that the DBZ characters combat speed is FAR greater than their flight. When they are in Mid Combat, they are moving around so fast that the entire fight is basically invisible to even GODS eye and Super Human eyes. No one can see them during combat. When they are flying around, they don't share this luxury... they are clearly seeable/visible to the site vs them completely being invisible to the eye during combat. If Krillin/Vegeta/Frieza flew to their locations at blinding speeds, the same speeds that they move at when fighting opponents... then you could have an argument but they DON'T because they conserve energy. Even when they take off its not at the same pace of their combat speed.Your post fails.
Originally posted by Karagiannis
look did kami tenchi said "i am omnipotent" no!
Can someone close this please, this has gone waaaaay off topic.....which was resolved in the first 3 pages.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
WTF man! BloodRain provides scans and you just up and reject them. Uh....blinding doesn't necessarily mean lightspeed. I could show you someone from a weaker verse actually having FTL reaction which DBZ simply doesn't have.How the hell is that relevant to anything!? Just because someone says they're omnipotent doesn't mean they are.
Can someone close this please, this has gone waaaaay off topic.....which was resolved in the first 3 pages.
Baseless claims don't really mean anything to me. For instance, Frieza said he was the strongest in the universe yet was weaker than King Cold of Goku for that matter. Hell Pein from Naruto dubbed himself God yet was beaten by PIS dressed in orange.
Kami Tenchi might as well be omnipotent though, he could probably takes some of the Gold Saints from Seiyu and pwn GS Hao 🙁. Heck he could probably take D.S on although that's another debate entirely.
Thanks waka3 >:
Originally posted by carver9
You've completely missed my point. Can I ask something? What site are you getting these scans from?That would be very helpful.
Originally posted by carver9
By the way, your Krillin scan is false since he made it there and back faster than what Gohun said and THEN he had someone with him that was slowing him down.
Originally posted by carver9
Frieza basically had to guide himself with his scouter. He didn't know the exact location of Gohun and the crew, that's why he was waiting unitl every beep. Then you do not understand the meaning of combat speed vs flight speed.
If Frieza is capable of 'moving around so fast' at FTL speeds then the smallest step would take him planetary distances and iirc if they're flying about at each other then its just as good as there movement speed. Answered below v.
Originally posted by carver9
When did Krillin say that Goku limits was only a planet buster? I remember Piccolo saying that a weaker version of Frieza can destroy planet Namek instantly.
Yeah went ahead and read the Goku vs Frieza fight, these are all the instance with King Kai;
1) Saying the fight started and theyre evenly matched.
2) Commenting on Friezas strength and how Goku is using 10/20x kaio-ken[Comments on 20xGoku and 50%Frieza, so nothing below SSJGoku and 100%Frieza can have this comment of yours] and how he warned him.
3) Cheering that the Spirit bomb worked.
4) Stating that Namek was destroyed, corrected by Kami. Then telling Goku to attack while Frieza's charging up.
5) Making the wish plan with Kami and Elder, then Goku.
6) Stating that Frieza is dead.
If I missed anything then by all means show me. BTW scans next post or you may as well not reply, do hope you get them.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Thanks waka3 >:Same site as the last time you asked. Go find your own scans if you dont like mine, its greatly advised. Wait.. you had a point?
Incorrect. Gohan was saying how long it would take Krillin to fly to the Elder, get the info and fly back, he have an estimated time of how long the whole thing would take, Dende running into Krillin had nothing to do with the time he gave. As Gohan has been to the Elders he know exactly how long it would take to get there.
And you're mistaken, Dende ran into Krillen a long time before coming up to the Elders place. Remember that the Elder told him to fly to them? Fly to Elder + talk + fly back = 2+hours from a guy thats been there.http://s1-c.animea-server.net/46%2F293_46_%2FDB293-13.GIF
I'm sure the giant dragon was a bug giveaway.. <.<If Frieza is capable of 'moving around so fast' at FTL speeds then the smallest step would take him planetary distances and iirc if they're flying about at each other then its just as good as there movement speed. Answered below v.
'Kiri', not Krillin. Kiri is the unit of measurement of the energy output of characters [Therefore better then PL in determining energy attacks for being more energy specific] used by Babidi. Its stated that a Kiri of 200-300 can destroy 1 or 2 planets. SSJ1 Goku's Kiri is only 3,000. A couple planets worth? Could even go and say that SSJ3 could take down the largest planets by this (being generous) and he'd still be far from low star/Sun level. Hence generously having Vegito at low star/Sun level.
Yeah went ahead and read the Goku vs Frieza fight, these are all the instance with King Kai;
1) Saying the fight started and theyre evenly matched.
2) Commenting on Friezas strength and how Goku is using 10/20x kaio-ken[Comments on 20xGoku and 50%Frieza, so nothing below SSJGoku and 100%Frieza can have this comment of yours] and how he warned him.
3) Cheering that the Spirit bomb worked.
4) Stating that Namek was destroyed, corrected by Kami. Then telling Goku to attack while Frieza's charging up.
5) Making the wish plan with Kami and Elder, then Goku.
6) Stating that Frieza is dead.If I missed anything then by all means show me. BTW scans next post or you may as well not reply, do hope you get them.
Bloodrain... I was serious when I asked for the site where you are getting your scans. The scans I presented where saved on my phone... I'm not going anywhere to find them. That's why I ended my statement by saying "that would be helpful".
