Makoto will be fun, however I'll say this much, she will not be as good as she was in 3S, due to one crucial factor...No More Parry. Characters like Ryu now have far better options to contend against her now, "if" saying she plays near exactly like her 3S counterpart.
Makoto was very good in 3S, however it was due to the fact that she could effectively get inside all the time with little to not retaliation contributed with the way 3S played contributed to her greatly. Now with characters being able to zone out with projectiles, Anti-Air you back down to the ground when you jump in like more old school Street Fighter II, it will become much more difficult for Makoto. In my opinion, I believe she will struggle with some of the same characters that Fei-Long has problems with, simply because just like Fei-Long she also has to get in on her opponents.
Again, this is saying if she's like a 3S counterpart, however who know's, anything can happen since it is a new game, it's just my ideal of what I feel maybe the outcome. At srk.com I have been reading up and it's laughable to see that Ryu still has his ShoryukenxxFADCxxUltra in Super Street Fighter IV, bwahahahaha. The only thing they did was lower the damage slightly, so expect this to still be a devastating move with Ryu.
However, Ryu as a character only needed to have his Ultra combobility nerfed, because it was the only stupid thing within his entire arsenal. Everything else is perfectly fine and deserves no nerfing whatsoever outside of that.
I'm looking to Guile getting a boost, his Sonic Boom, Normal Pokes and Flash Kick are absolutely terrible in the game of SF:IV. He has no sense of even playing to what made him so dominant back in the OG SFII days. His Sonic Boom doesn't give him very strong setups due to the fact that his normals are terrible in their range, plus his SB itself does infant damage in contrast to other projectiles out there.
His Flash kick is laughable, it loses out so many times that many don't even rely upon it, but instead use the Ex-Option version more, which is sad.
His three Upgrades which would make him become a real contender is simple...
- More Damage on Sonic Boom
- Far better range on Normals
- More Priority on Flash kick with better horizontal
With those, it will completely change Guile already. Because with Sonic Boom doing more damage, your fearful of it now, and more importantly with the upgrade of range on his normals. Guile can now really start to set up his dominant SB+Poking zoning game. Add priority to the Flash kick with more horizontal so that when players "jump in" they eat the flash kick making them think twice before trying to jump in again.
These upgrades alone and even without a super effective Ultra that he can "easily" land, he would be a force to be reckon with.
Originally posted by I-Drop
They still have time to put Elena and R.Mika in there!
I think R.Mika might be in it, for real. I was readin' Dev Blog or somthin' like it and they made it sound like they REALLY wanted her in there.
Originally posted by JustFrameHere is what s-Kill had to say about Guile when people were concerned that he may still be low tier.
Makoto will be fun, however I'll say this much, she will not be as good as she was in 3S, due to one crucial factor...No More Parry. Characters like Ryu now have far better options to contend against her now, "if" saying she plays near exactly like her 3S counterpart.Makoto was very good in 3S, however it was due to the fact that she could effectively get inside all the time with little to not retaliation contributed with the way 3S played contributed to her greatly. Now with characters being able to zone out with projectiles, Anti-Air you back down to the ground when you jump in like more old school Street Fighter II, it will become much more difficult for Makoto. In my opinion, I believe she will struggle with some of the same characters that Fei-Long has problems with, simply because just like Fei-Long she also has to get in on her opponents.
Again, this is saying if she's like a 3S counterpart, however who know's, anything can happen since it is a new game, it's just my ideal of what I feel maybe the outcome. At srk.com I have been reading up and it's laughable to see that Ryu still has his ShoryukenxxFADCxxUltra in Super Street Fighter IV, bwahahahaha. The only thing they did was lower the damage slightly, so expect this to still be a devastating move with Ryu.
However, Ryu as a character only needed to have his Ultra combobility nerfed, because it was the only stupid thing within his entire arsenal. Everything else is perfectly fine and deserves no nerfing whatsoever outside of that.
I'm looking to Guile getting a boost, his Sonic Boom, Normal Pokes and Flash Kick are absolutely terrible in the game of SF:IV. He has no sense of even playing to what made him so dominant back in the OG SFII days. His Sonic Boom doesn't give him very strong setups due to the fact that his normals are terrible in their range, plus his SB itself does infant damage in contrast to other projectiles out there.
His Flash kick is laughable, it loses out so many times that many don't even rely upon it, but instead use the Ex-Option version more, which is sad.
His three Upgrades which would make him become a real contender is simple...
- More Damage on Sonic Boom
- Far better range on Normals
- More Priority on Flash kick with better horizontalWith those, it will completely change Guile already. Because with Sonic Boom doing more damage, your fearful of it now, and more importantly with the upgrade of range on his normals. Guile can now really start to set up his dominant SB+Poking zoning game. Add priority to the Flash kick with more horizontal so that when players "jump in" they eat the flash kick making them think twice before trying to jump in again.
These upgrades alone and even without a super effective Ultra that he can "easily" land, he would be a force to be reckon with.
That said, Guile feels more "Guile-y" to me, which I think is a good thing. A lot of the work on the game is not specifically around, "Let's make this character #1!" but more about improving options and feel and fun for everyone. There will always be winners and losers in a rankings chart; if there weren't disparities, the game would be a lot less fun, which everyone seems to forget immediately when they are talking about "There's an imbalance!" but I digress.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiNI agree and I have no idea why they did what they did in SFIV. It sounds to me like they are goin' to revert Guile back to his SFII forms. I guess the Focus System+Ultras+new graphics really phucked'im up. They need to fix Vega too. He is slow as hell in this game.
Didnt david sirlin do guile right in Remix?.. why steer away from that?
To me, balance is and will forever be absolutely overrated, however to what happened to Guile is absolutely hog wash, and I give Capcom absolutely no excuse, after ST, the only good Guile to have ever shown up was in CvS2.
That was thanks to all the Universal Options in that game, his RC Options, his Lvl 2 Cancels and him having one of the Top best Lvl 3 Supers in the game. His SB was pretty terrible, his Flash kick was absolutely garbage in that game as well, along with his pokes, it was laughable to see what he could "only" do after a SB setup in that game which was sub-par at the least. Yet he was strong enough to make recommendations for "Top-Tier" within that game, I assure anyone that had he of had more of his SFII like qualities, Guile would have easily of been Top-4 in that game.
So even in other SF games Post-ST, he's been in most cases...terrible. That's again simply because they stopped making Guile to be good at what he was supposed to be good at. Not necessarily what the Universal Options or Ultras did to Guile in SF:IV because he's a character who when made right, is so strong that even without a heavy reliance upon Supers or Ultras he would be more then capable of, simply because he's such a well made character.
However when you make SB crap, you make his pokes have no range, thus making his SB+zoning with pokes near non-threatening which is arguably the fundamental and most important aspect to Guile's gameplan. You make his AA one of the absolute worse in the game with almost no horizontal range with only the exception of it's Ex-Option, it just makes me wonder if Capcom had forgotten "what" made Guile good in the first place.
Let's just say Guile could play with great qualities of his SFII counterpart. Even with the absence of a connectable Ultra, I would stake that he would be one of the strong competitors within the game, if not one of the strongest. When he can play to these qualities, he usually becomes one of the absolute best.
I no longer take this game seriously (meaning tournament level) anymore however my brother who still is "semi-serious" and watching his matches in which he would do a Sonic Boom with Guile and a Sagat player would shoot a Tiger shot both at the same time, and even though my brother was close, he still however couldn't come in to retaliate because of his near pedestrian ability to get in and punish Sagat for making that mistake.
In a game like SFII, at that range, Guile will have baited, and landed a Knee Bazooka, or a c.mk to make Sagat think twice of wanting to do anything. I have heard from people who's had access to the game that Guile's pokes "have improved" however they still don't feel to be making up for his lack of SB and Flash Kick options in SSF:IV at this point.
Things could and possibly will change, and it's hopeful that he will be given more of his SFII like qualities. Because he'll need all of it, especially in a game where you can SJ, BD, Dash, Ex through projectiles etc, etc.
Also on Sirlin with HD:Remix with Guile, he was a tournament player, and thus made Guile to have more of the qualities that made him good in the past. However, SF:IV isn't controlled by these guys but just actual gaming makers and not by top players insight themselves, so the SF:IV Guile would undoubtedly have been very different with the set of mentality on how to make them.
I swear, I used to defend Guile saying that he's better then he looks when "played" right, however after two years now, he's "almost" as terrible as his Alpha 3 Incarnation.
Originally posted by JustFrame
Makoto will be fun, however I'll say this much, she will not be as good as she was in 3S, due to one crucial factor...No More Parry. Characters like Ryu now have far better options to contend against her now, "if" saying she plays near exactly like her 3S counterpart.Makoto was very good in 3S, however it was due to the fact that she could effectively get inside all the time with little to not retaliation contributed with the way 3S played contributed to her greatly. Now with characters being able to zone out with projectiles, Anti-Air you back down to the ground when you jump in like more old school Street Fighter II, it will become much more difficult for Makoto. In my opinion, I believe she will struggle with some of the same characters that Fei-Long has problems with, simply because just like Fei-Long she also has to get in on her opponents.
Again, this is saying if she's like a 3S counterpart, however who know's, anything can happen since it is a new game, it's just my ideal of what I feel maybe the outcome. At srk.com I have been reading up and it's laughable to see that Ryu still has his ShoryukenxxFADCxxUltra in Super Street Fighter IV, bwahahahaha. The only thing they did was lower the damage slightly, so expect this to still be a devastating move with Ryu.
However, Ryu as a character only needed to have his Ultra combobility nerfed, because it was the only stupid thing within his entire arsenal. Everything else is perfectly fine and deserves no nerfing whatsoever outside of that.
I'm looking to Guile getting a boost, his Sonic Boom, Normal Pokes and Flash Kick are absolutely terrible in the game of SF:IV. He has no sense of even playing to what made him so dominant back in the OG SFII days. His Sonic Boom doesn't give him very strong setups due to the fact that his normals are terrible in their range, plus his SB itself does infant damage in contrast to other projectiles out there.
His Flash kick is laughable, it loses out so many times that many don't even rely upon it, but instead use the Ex-Option version more, which is sad.
His three Upgrades which would make him become a real contender is simple...
- More Damage on Sonic Boom
- Far better range on Normals
- More Priority on Flash kick with better horizontalWith those, it will completely change Guile already. Because with Sonic Boom doing more damage, your fearful of it now, and more importantly with the upgrade of range on his normals. Guile can now really start to set up his dominant SB+Poking zoning game. Add priority to the Flash kick with more horizontal so that when players "jump in" they eat the flash kick making them think twice before trying to jump in again.
These upgrades alone and even without a super effective Ultra that he can "easily" land, he would be a force to be reckon with.
You want Ryu to become weaker, and Guile to become better; yet you are not a fan of balancing.
If anyone deserves to be nerfed, it's Sagat. Perhaps even Rufus. I'm somewhat reminded of how good Bob was in Tekken 6 because of Rufus.
Otherwise, I agree, SFIV Guile is pathetic when compared to his better incarnations, but he still plays alright.
Rufus doesn't need nefin'. No one needs to get nerfed but Sagat. The fact that he's super strong and super durable aint even the problem, it's all those stupid ass tricks hes got. Although, I will say, Sagat is OP, but he aint WAY OP. For some odd reason, Vega and be kickin' the shit outta me and I main Sagat and Vega is low as hell on the tier list.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You want Ryu to become weaker, and Guile to become better; yet you are not a fan of balancing.
Far from the truth, what I want nerfed from Ryu is his stupidly easy mode form of "landing damage" which is his ShoryukenxxFADCxxUltra. Ask yourself how many "Ryu" players would actually win if they had to actually rely upon what makes Ryu dominate (zoning, footsies, spacing) instead of being down half their life and swinging the match on whim with a simple mistake.
So even with this nerf, he'll still contend for Top-Tier or at the worse, will dip to Upper-Tier, making Ryu still incredibly strong when played effectively. However, players whom have played SSFIV have already stated that Ryu can still do all of his Ultra setup shenanegans the only difference is that it does slightly less damage. Laughable, because with the nerfing of Sagat now, Ryu has potential to arguably stay Top-Tier, "maybe" potentially #1 if no one else becomes good enough to contend against him or the newer characters at that.
Guile's improvement is for the better because he plays absolutely nothing to the level of what made his character competitive. Yes, I'm not a fan of "balancing" in the sense that the game does not need to be where it's "super balanced" to be competitive or fun, if we all derived on this subject then all of us would only be playing SFII:HF, Tekken:5DR, and VF4:FT, that's it.
Balancing to make everyone "equal" is overrated, and always will be. SF:IV in itself is very, very balanced already, however SSFIV can potentially be less balanced then SF:IV, we just simply don't know.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
If anyone deserves to be nerfed, it's Sagat. Perhaps even Rufus. I'm somewhat reminded of how good Bob was in Tekken 6 because of Rufus.
Sagat did infact receive some tone downs, he does less damage, and slightly less stamina from what I heard. I've forgotten about a few other things, however he doesn't need a "severe" nerf, just a slight nerf. The problem with nerfing a character is that, too much will make a character terrible and more importantly far less interesting to play as.
Sagat is the best #1 Top-Tier to show up in any 1st series installment for Street Fighter which goes a long way considering other #1 characters in their respective series were way, way, way more overpowered.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Otherwise, I agree, SFIV Guile is pathetic when compared to his better incarnations, but he still plays alright.
Guile is just flat out terrible, Capcom seemingly forgot that his Sonic Boom, Normals, and Flash Kick have been "gutter trash" since Post-Super Turbo. It seems like all of them were using Alpha 3 Guile as the "building" block to all the current Guile forms including SF:IV, which if true, is simply stupid.
Originally posted by JustFrame
Guile is just flat out terrible, Capcom seemingly forgot that his Sonic Boom, Normals, and Flash Kick have been "gutter trash" since Post-Super Turbo. It seems like all of them were using Alpha 3 Guile as the "building" block to all the current Guile forms including SF:IV, which if true, is simply stupid.
Yeah I hope he gets some much needed buffs.. I really really enjoy playing him because of his.. purity? I guess.. so few specials and so many normals..
heres hoping.. keep it classy, capcom
I always thought that Blanka would be a tuff match-up for Sagat in SFIV because he has so many ways to get past Sagat's fireballs. Blanka's EX roll goes right through fireballs and it take out good damage. They should give Honda fireball invincibility with his headbutt, or at least give him armor in SSFIV.
Originally posted by dvampirewell doesnt sagat have good fireball recovery too?..
I always thought that Blanka would be a tuff match-up for Sagat in SFIV because he has so many ways to get past Sagat's fireballs. Blanka's EX roll goes right through fireballs and it take out good damage. They should give Honda fireball invincibility with his headbutt, or at least give him armor in SSFIV.