Street Fighter IV

I haven't played anything post-Tekken 4, so that pretty much shows that I was only referring to the strategy of the prior games.

Also, if you're gonna judge by my post, you'd do well to ask how old I am first. I predate the first Street Fighter by two years, I predate the second (Which is essentially the first relevant game) by five.

You're saying that the series would have been killed years ago if it had no potential for growth or what not. What kind of argument is that? How long have some of the world's franchises been going on?

When was the last time you saw a Friday the 13th movie and thought it was a refreshing concept? Do not confuse persistent repetition with longevity.

Even the most ardent follower of Street Fighter is probably not so retarded as to claim this series has been kept alive by the games constantly and massively evolving. The latest installment, for all its pretty graphics, is still essentially the game we got back in March '91. That's fine if you love it and enjoy it, but it is what it is.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
lol.. its nice to see someone who has no idea about fighting games, talk about fighting games.. let's see.. where to start..

Tekken 6 "learning curve", is basically learning your main dial-a-juggle to punish any mistake (which can even amount to a wiffed jab).. this "gameplay" that parades around as funfactor.. gets really really old after the first match

mind you, basic tekken is very fun.. I can still overcome people who fish for dial-a-juggles, but tekken has lost the elements that made it fun a very long time ago... I would say it possesses half (give or take) of the strategy it takes for a street fighter match

Oh, do go on. Please explain to me how there's more strategy required in Street Fighter, and how that manifests itself properly in the fights.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
The "turn it out in your opponents favor" is simply referring to street fighter 4's ultra system exclusively (which is probably the only street fighter to include something that causes such a hefty amount of damage).. it has nothing to do with the street fighters of old

Also.. if its not a legitimate talent, then why isn't everyone just randomly good at fighting games?

your "skill is worth nothing" only holds true if you're not making money off of your ability.. as there is a vast variation of fighting gamers out there..

casual...semi-casual...hardcore...pro...etc

I would probably even compare this to quake 3.. some people just dont have what it takes to be at the top.. you can sit there and raise / lower your sensitivity and time the armor pickups all you want

if it simply boiled down to who's fastest.. there would be alooooot more top players out there.. its simply not the case.. but nice try at over-simplification

Because not everybody wants to be. You're telling me that some people just aren't born with the capability to become as good as the best S.F. player? You're actually suggesting there's a level of natural ability to...press buttons? Think about what you're saying.

I'm not saying it ISN'T a legit talent because everyone is good at it. I'm saying it's not because of what it involves and the difference between being good and being "great".

Ultimately, Daigo knows all the same moves as a casual player. He has no knowledge of the game that someone can't learn in a day. Experience isn't necessarily talent. He's experienced enough that he can win most of his matches.

He doesn't possess anything game wise that a first time player wouldn't have. If I know the exact same amount of things as Daigo, obviously I'm still not going to beat him. How would anyone? By being faster at doing those things. Why doesn't he lose much?

Originally posted by No End N Site
Someone sounds like a Tekken fanboi. Why else would you come out of no where and say things like this? You've been wantin' to say that for a while now, haven't you?

I've been in this thread before.

I'm not a Tekken fanboy, I prefer it.

Originally posted by Juk3n
You're wrong. You sound like someone who regularly gets asshandled and therefore doesn't credit the game with it's due. Which is a shame because you sound like a smart guy, who has an ignorant stance.

I still have thumb callouses from the amount of Street Fighter I used to play from the time 2 came out, to the Street Fighter Alphas. I simply got bored. It wasn't a matter of getting any ass handed to me, because I'm not like that.

There are people who can crush me to smitherines on Guitar Hero. I still like it.

So, when you drop the hypocritical ignorance, we'll talk more.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Oh, do go on. Please explain to me how there's more strategy required in Street Fighter, and how that manifests itself properly in the fights.

Because not everybody wants to be. You're telling me that some people just aren't born with the capability to become as good as the best S.F. player? You're actually suggesting there's a level of natural ability to...press buttons? Think about what you're saying.

I'm not saying it ISN'T a legit talent because everyone is good at it. I'm saying it's not because of what it involves and the difference between being good and being "great".

Ultimately, Daigo knows all the same moves as a casual player. He has no knowledge of the game that someone can't learn in a day. Experience isn't necessarily talent. He's experienced enough that he can win most of his matches.

He doesn't possess anything game wise that a first time player wouldn't have. If I know the exact same amount of things as Daigo, obviously I'm still not going to beat him. How would anyone? By being faster at doing those things. Why doesn't he lose much?

-AC

- well lets see.. its ALOT faster.. there is waayyy more frama data to learn than tekken (such as invulnerability frames, (upper, lower or entire body)).. I'm certain tekken does not have tic-throws, or cross-ups.. the ONLY mind games in tekken are hi/low.. even Virtua Fighter takes light years more skill than tekken, IMO.. not to mention a good 60 - 80% of tekken move lists are garbage filler that don't work in a real match

- its not just pressing buttons.. if it were that easy, as I said, we'd have many more professional gaming stars on our hands.. do you think just.. pressing buttons is going to make you a super star in any game that has a tournament scene?.. think about what you're saying first.. because it just sounds like you're being bitter about it more than anything.. I dont even know how you could think this

- There is a HUGE difference between being good and great.. even great is not enough..

- The games just click with him.. he obviously has talent if he's placing high or top in almost every tourney he enters

- Like you said.. he doesnt lose much.. he KNOWS what you're going to do, and you get your ass kicked for it.. thats daigo.. it has nothing to do with speed.. he reads your actions as if he wrote them himself before hand

Just observe, if you will, whats actually going on in the match, instead of seeing it as "pressing buttons"

YouTube video

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- well lets see.. its ALOT faster.. there is waayyy more frama data to learn than tekken (such as invulnerability frames, (upper, lower or entire body)).. I'm certain tekken does not have tic-throws, or cross-ups.. the ONLY mind games in tekken are hi/low.. even Virtua Fighter takes light years more skill than tekken, IMO.. not to mention a good 60 - 80% of tekken move lists are garbage filler that don't work in a real match

My word! The pretentiousness is astounding.

A "real match", as if everyone playing for fun isn't playing at all. Ok, it has tic-throws and cross-ups. Does it have the ability to counter punches into other moves? Does it have to ability to chain throw combos together like such Tekken characters as King, or with the intricate skill of such?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- its not just pressing buttons.. if it were that easy, as I said, we'd have many more professional gaming stars on our hands.. do you think just.. pressing buttons is going to make you a super star in any game that has a tournament scene?.. think about what you're saying first.. because it just sounds like you're being bitter about it more than anything.. I dont even know how you could think this

Just gonna repost this, since you obviously didn't read it:

"Because not everybody wants to be. You're telling me that some people just aren't born with the capability to become as good as the best S.F. player? You're actually suggesting there's a level of natural ability to...press buttons? Think about what you're saying.

I'm not saying it ISN'T a legit talent because everyone is good at it. I'm saying it's not because of what it involves and the difference between being good and being "great".

Bitter about what? What's there to be bitter about, honestly? People being better at the game? There's almost always someone better at a game than you. Such nonsense.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- There is a HUGE difference between being good and great.. even great is not enough..

- The games just click with him.. he obviously has talent if he's placing high or top in almost every tourney he enters

- Like you said.. he doesnt lose much.. he KNOWS what you're going to do, and you get your ass kicked for it.. thats daigo.. it has nothing to do with speed.. he reads your actions as if he wrote them himself before hand

Such weaselling.

What you essentially just said is that "He's faster", which was my initial argument. You can re-word your argument and it still adds up to him being faster.

He doesn't know your actions before you do, he doesn't read them like he wrote them; he's not Nathan Grey, he's someone who is really good at a fighting game. Stop polishing the man's apples.

"he KNOWS what you're going to do, and you get your ass kicked for it.. thats daigo.. it has nothing to do with speed.. he reads your actions as if he wrote them himself before hand".

He has everything to do with speed. Stop being ridiculous. He simply reacts faster doesn't he? He has faster reaction. Stop trying to over-complicate it. What I said was true.

It also comes down to the fact that there honestly isn't much to learn. Once you've played as many people as he has, you know a character's moves and how they are best used. Why? Because there isn't as much to S.F. as its fanboys convince themselves. You're giving the man credit as if he's a psychic prophet and he's not. He's someone who has spent an ungodly amount of time playing a very simple game and is simply faster at it than anyone else.

You can't do that in actual fights. Every opponent is different.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I've been in this thread before.

I'm not a Tekken fanboy, I prefer it.

1. So...

2. You are, and that's not what you said.

Originally posted by No End N Site
1. So...

2. You are, and that's not what you said.

I love Street Fighter, I love Tekken.

I'm not saying Street Fighter is shit, I'm simply stating observable facts. I'm not a Tekken fanboy. I haven't played a Tekken since 4, how is that fanboyistic? I have purchased Street Fighter games more recently than Tekken.

You don't get to decide, this isn't subjective. You're telling me...about me. What I say about me is what goes. Move on or move up, adults are speaking.

-AC

Originally posted by JustFrame
Do you truly know the fundamentals of Street Fighter to make an opinion? Probably not.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I love Street Fighter, I love Tekken.

I'm not saying Street Fighter is shit, I'm simply stating observable facts. I'm not a Tekken fanboy. I haven't played a Tekken since 4, how is that fanboyistic? I have purchased Street Fighter games more recently than Tekken.

You don't get to decide, this isn't subjective. You're telling me...about me. What I say about me is what goes. Move on or move up, adults are speaking.

-AC

I find you likin' SF very hard to believe after that 1st butthert post.

You didn't say SF was shit, but you beat around the bush to that point. And after that bitter ass post you made, you make it hard for me to believe you haven't played T5 or T6.

Your bitter post pretty much told me who you were, I've seen it before, and only super bitter Tekken fans come from out of nowhere and say what you said for almost no reason. What reason did you have to say such a things? You coulda said what you said about SF wit out even mentionin' Tekken at all. You sound like a fanboi.

Originally posted by No End N Site
I find you likin' SF very hard to believe after that 1st butthert post.

You didn't say SF was shit, but you beat around the bush to that point. And after that bitter ass post you made, you make it hard for me to believe you haven't played T5 or T6.

Your bitter post pretty much told me who you were, I've seen it before, and only super bitter Tekken fans come from out of nowhere and say what you said for almost no reason. What reason did you have to say such a things? You coulda said what you said about SF wit out even mentionin' Tekken at all. You sound like a fanboi.

No, see, this is where you're getting really confused, kid.

That point, the one that exists in your head about me thinking Street Fighter is shit and me being a Tekken fanboy? That one? It doesn't exist. It's untrue. It's falsified.

Are you following me? My word > Your word when it comes to me. Fact. Hardcore, undeniable truth. You do not, under any circumstance, get to decide what I believe.

Sorry.

Obviously I stated Tekken because it's my preferred series of the two. I was stating what series I found to be better to my tastes and in comparison to Street Fighter. I never said any of what YOU are putting into my posts. YOU, on the other hand, have had Street Fighter KMC names. If anyone's a fanboy, it's you. I was making remarks about the PERCEPTION of Street Fighter and it's so-called hardcore fans. Not even the game itself in any negative way.

Obviously it being simple isn't something I hate or I wouldn't have spent most of my youth playing the f*cking thing.

Fact. There's no argument here, there's no opinion for you to have. You're wrong. Deal with it.

Oh, and it's "Fanboy". You can't type the Y?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, see, this is where you're getting really confused, kid.

That point, the one that exists in your head about me thinking Street Fighter is shit and me being a Tekken fanboy? That one? It doesn't exist. It's untrue. It's falsified.

Are you following me? My word > Your word when it comes to me. Fact. Hardcore, undeniable truth. You do not, under any circumstance, get to decide what I believe.

Sorry.

Obviously I stated Tekken because it's my preferred series of the two. I was stating what series I found to be better to my tastes and in comparison to Street Fighter. I never said any of what YOU are putting into my posts. YOU, on the other hand, have had Street Fighter KMC names. If anyone's a fanboy, it's you. I was making remarks about the PERCEPTION of Street Fighter and it's so-called hardcore fans. Not even the game itself in any negative way.

Obviously it being simple isn't something I hate or I wouldn't have spent most of my youth playing the f*cking thing.

Fact. There's no argument here, there's no opinion for you to have. You're wrong. Deal with it.

Oh, and it's "Fanboy". You can't type the Y?

-AC

However, his opinion about you > your opinion about you.

Have you ever played SF IV? If yes, how long?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
However, his opinion about you > your opinion about you.

Have you ever played SF IV? If yes, how long?

He isn't holding a subjective opinion about my person, he's trying to factually tell me what I believe. He's wrong. He's wrong because I say he is. I know what I believe, I'm the only one who truly does and thus, anyone's word over THEMSELVES is fact when it comes down to your word Vs theirs.

Simplicity, not sure why that's confusing.

Yes, and quite a lot since it came out. I don't own it because I had more important things to spend money on, and by the time I decided to they announced the new version.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, see, this is where you're getting really confused, kid.

That point, the one that exists in your head about me thinking Street Fighter is shit and me being a Tekken fanboy? That one? It doesn't exist. It's untrue. It's falsified.

Are you following me? My word > Your word when it comes to me. Fact. Hardcore, undeniable truth. You do not, under any circumstance, get to decide what I believe.

Sorry.

Obviously I stated Tekken because it's my preferred series of the two. I was stating what series I found to be better to my tastes and in comparison to Street Fighter. I never said any of what YOU are putting into my posts. YOU, on the other hand, have had Street Fighter KMC names. If anyone's a fanboy, it's you. I was making remarks about the PERCEPTION of Street Fighter and it's so-called hardcore fans. Not even the game itself in any negative way.

Obviously it being simple isn't something I hate or I wouldn't have spent most of my youth playing the f*cking thing.

Fact. There's no argument here, there's no opinion for you to have. You're wrong. Deal with it.

Oh, and it's "Fanboy". You can't type the Y?

-AC

Confused? Kid? Not at all pal, just aint buyin' your bull sh!t.

We all know that what I say is true and that you came here to start a fight.

There's a difference between decidin' what you believe and knowin what you believe based off of clear evidence.

Apology accepted.

That's load a crap. I never once told you that SF was better than Tekken and I didn't call you a fanboi based on the fact that you liked Tekken and hated SF. So cut the bull sh!t. I addressed you about the crap you spewed over SF that has EVERYONE askin' you if you ever played a SF game. And so what if I had a SF KMC name. You don't see me trollin' Tekken threads bashin' Tekken and puttin' SF on a pedestal.

I don't believe you.

Fact. Your a Tekken fanboi OR a bitter and miserable failure at playin SF. Don't take it too hard, it's just a game.

And I choose to spell "Fanboi" over fanboy cuz I'm not lame as hell.

but... thats not how its spelled 😐

how does it make you lame to spell a word correctly >_>

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He isn't holding a subjective opinion about my person, he's trying to factually tell me what I believe. He's wrong. He's wrong because I say he is. I know what I believe, I'm the only one who truly does and thus, anyone's word over THEMSELVES is fact when it comes down to your word Vs theirs.

Simplicity, not sure why that's confusing.

Yes, and quite a lot since it came out. I don't own it because I had more important things to spend money on, and by the time I decided to they announced the new version.

-AC

I think he is holding a subjective opinion about your person, since the moment he read your post. That's why i wrote the word "however".

And if what you say you believe, differs from what you stated and implied before, then you are either lying or you weren't clear enough.

Contradiction, that's confusing, isn't it?

SF IV? Not SF, i mean the current. Where did you play it? Give me some numbers about the hours you played it.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I think he is holding a subhective opinion about your person, the moment he read your post. That's why i wrote the word "however".

And if what you say you believe, differs from what you stated and implied before, then you are either lying or you weren't clear enough.

Contradiction, that's confusing, isn't it?

Exactly, looks like someone read the post he made that started all this crap.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
but... thats not how its spelled 😐

how does it make you lame to spell a word correctly >_>

Fanboy/fanboi isn't even a real word, I can spell it however the hell I want. 😠

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

My word! The pretentiousness is astounding.

A "real match", as if everyone playing for fun isn't playing at all. Ok, it has tic-throws and cross-ups. Does it have the ability to counter punches into other moves? Does it have to ability to chain throw combos together like such Tekken characters as King, or with the intricate skill of such?

Just gonna repost this, since you obviously didn't read it:

"Because not everybody wants to be. You're telling me that some people just aren't born with the capability to become as good as the best S.F. player? You're actually suggesting there's a level of natural ability to...press buttons? Think about what you're saying.

I'm not saying it ISN'T a legit talent because everyone is good at it. I'm saying it's not because of what it involves and the difference between being good and being "great".

Bitter about what? What's there to be bitter about, honestly? People being better at the game? There's almost always someone better at a game than you. Such nonsense.

Such weaselling.

What you essentially just said is that "He's faster", which was my initial argument. You can re-word your argument and it still adds up to him being faster.

He doesn't know your actions before you do, he doesn't read them like he wrote them; he's not Nathan Grey, he's someone who is really good at a fighting game. Stop polishing the man's apples.

"he KNOWS what you're going to do, and you get your ass kicked for it.. thats daigo.. it has nothing to do with speed.. he reads your actions as if he wrote them himself before hand".

He has everything to do with speed. Stop being ridiculous. He simply reacts faster doesn't he? He has faster reaction. Stop trying to over-complicate it. What I said was true.

It also comes down to the fact that there honestly isn't much to learn. Once you've played as many people as he has, you know a character's moves and how they are best used. Why? Because there isn't as much to S.F. as its fanboys convince themselves. You're giving the man credit as if he's a psychic prophet and he's not. He's someone who has spent an ungodly amount of time playing a very simple game and is simply faster at it than anyone else.

You can't do that in actual fights. Every opponent is different.

-AC

-Yes.. a real match.. and no.. casual is not hardcore / tourney level.. is this really news to you?

-Wow.. so you think chain moves = strategy?.. interesting

-The point of reposting that was?.. I obviously keep my stance on the issue.. there 'are' people who are naturally at these kinds of games.. whether you believe it or not

-lol you tell me.. you're the one coming in here going on about how none of this takes an ounce of skill, and amounts to who pushes buttons faster.. sounds like nothing more than a bitter /rage post on world of warcraft forums or some crap

-He's not JUST fast though.. thats whats not getting through your head, because you dont want it to (probably cuz it would ruin your argument? I dont really care).. he makes you react how he wants, and then beats you up for it.. thats not just speed.. thats a completely different level of gameplay.. not to mention his adaptability on the fly is really something else

-I'm not polishing anything.. I'm telling you thats how daigo plays, and its how he's such a monster at these games

-when you get to his level, you know your shit is all.. there are many do's and don'ts in this game, and even more so for high level play

do.. what in actual fights?.. make people react exactly how you want and own them?.. cuz thats how daigo makes money lol

if all you want to do is say this game is button mashing and speed, then go try your luck with your amazing new knowledge..

I'm just wondering how far your limited knowledge on this subject is going to take you in this argument..

*grabs popcorn*
😎

He spells it like Avril Lavigne, that's adorable.

Batman-Prime: I don't keep track of the hours I play Street Fighter recently and that means nothing. I can't keep track of all the hours I played it from '91 all the way up to Street Fighter Alpha 3. That's actual madness.

I've played a lot of S.F. 4, though. I've beat it with every character on every difficulty etc. I don't own it, I've played it a lot. I don't have actual numbers of hours because I don't care enough. It does nothing for your argument.

Let me reply for you: "OH THAT MEANS YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING.". No, silly. No, it doesn't.

Furthermore, he's not holding a subjective opinion so I'm not sure why he agreed with you. He's telling me it's a fact I'm a Tekken fanboy, and the FACT is I'm not.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Confused? Kid? Not at all pal, just aint buyin' your bull sh!t.

We all know that what I say is true and that you came here to start a fight.

There's a difference between decidin' what you believe and knowin what you believe based off of clear evidence.

Apology accepted.

I told you that you were wrong in your claims about me. That's that. Any further decision to believe wrongly makes you ignorant.

I'm not starting a fight with anyone. Grow up. This thread is for S.F. discussion, not S.F. fanboys only.

Originally posted by No End N Site
That's load a crap. I never once told you that SF was better than Tekken and I didn't call you a fanboi based on the fact that you liked Tekken and hated SF. So cut the bull sh!t. I addressed you about the crap you spewed over SF that has EVERYONE askin' you if you ever played a SF game. And so what if I had a SF KMC name. You don't see me trollin' Tekken threads bashin' Tekken and puttin' SF on a pedestal.

I don't believe you.

...and you're not seeing me trolling S.F. threads bashing it, so why don't YOU cut the bullshit?

Originally posted by No End N Site
Fact. Your a Tekken fanboi OR a bitter and miserable failure at playin SF. Don't take it too hard, it's just a game.

And I choose to spell "Fanboi" over fanboy cuz I'm not lame as hell.

Nah, fact is that you're wrong. You have terrible spelling and you're here debating ME because you can't debate the topic civilly like Satsujin and I.

Continue your ignorant trolling and flaming if you wish, because that's all YOU'RE doing. This isn't a debate about me, in which you're factually wrong, it's about a game.

Chill out and get on the topic or just leave Satsujin and I to have our discussion. I have no interest in a mudslinging contest with some two-bit nobody.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-Yes.. a real match.. and no.. casual is not hardcore / tourney level.. is this really news to you?

-Wow.. so you think chain moves = strategy?.. interesting

All matches are real, what do you think this is; The Matrix?

Why aren't they strategic?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
--The point of reposting that was?.. I obviously keep my stance on the issue.. there 'are' people who are naturally at these kinds of games.. whether you believe it or not

Prove it. Give me examples of someone's natural ability that simply cannot be taught or learned ever.

Not via YouTube spamming, via your own explanation. As an aside, please don't give me nonsense about knowing when you're gonna do a move or any further Daigo polishing, please.

Nobody's psychic.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
--lol you tell me.. you're the one coming in here going on about how none of this takes an ounce of skill, and amounts to who pushes buttons faster.. sounds like nothing more than a bitter /rage post on world of warcraft forums or some crap

You S.F. fans REALLY are the ones who get pissed whenever someone questions your game. That's the hilarity of all this. I come in and make a claim and you actually start sitting there punching yourselves in the face in frustration. This is especially funny considering I probably played 2 before MOST of you.

Also, stop dodging me. Bitter how? WHAT on Earth is there to be bitter over? People being better? Who cares? Who honestly cares? It's a game. There's always someone better.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-He's not JUST fast though.. thats whats not getting through your head, because you dont want it to (probably cuz it would ruin your argument? I dont really care).. he makes you react how he wants, and then beats you up for it.. thats not just speed.. thats a completely different level of gameplay.. not to mention his adaptability on the fly is really something else

You're making absolutely NO sense.

You don't adapt ON the fly, you adapt TO something happening around you and react to it. Adaptation is reactionary, everyone knows that. To adapt is to react appropriately to an existing circumstance and handle it or exist in it appropriately. You're over-complicating this WAY too much.

So, what else do you have? "He's not just fast.", ok. So what is he? "He makes you react how he wants.". No, no he doesn't. If I don't want to do a certain move, he cannot physically make me. He is not Professor X, Satsujin. I know you and others choose to deify this man as if he walked across water, but he really cannot do all of this.

He reacts faster than his opponent and simply does the move first. That's speed and reaction time. That's ALL it is. He doesn't invent moves, does he? Does he ever perform a move that you literally do NOT know how to do? No, because once you learn the moves, you learn the moves. The only difference between him and another person is that he's? Go on. No? Faster, the answer is faster.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
--I'm not polishing anything.. I'm telling you thats how daigo plays, and its how he's such a monster at these games

Yes, and it's because he's faster. He's not a mythical spirit who happens to be magically good at this game.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
--when you get to his level, you know your shit is all.. there are many do's and don'ts in this game, and even more so for high level play

Why do you think that's NOT what I'm saying? That is PRECISELY my point. He knows his shit, he knows the game inside out. THAT is not a talent because anyone who decides to, can. Fact. It's not a bottomless pit of combos and trickery; it's the most simple fighting game of all time and anyone can learn anything in it. The reason they'd never beat Daigo is because he is simply the fastest person to probably ever play the game. He doesn't KNOW more, he doesn't know any secrets.

If he did, you wouldn't be sitting there telling me every little detail that he does. Fans sit there and say: "Daigo did this, this, this, then this. He likes to play like this and use this.". Exactly. He's never making anyone go "How did he do that?" in any LITERAL sense. Not in a shocking, "Oh my god that was amazing!" sense, but in the sense of factually not knowing how he pulled a move off.

Your argument is flawed, full of holes and completely faulty. Of course, you will never admit that because none of you will ever admit to being wrong, not to me, but you are.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-do.. what in actual fights?.. make people react exactly how you want and own them?.. cuz thats how daigo makes money lol

Re-read what I said.

In real life fights, every opponent is different. Reacting faster simply won't help you if you're a cage fighter. That proves the simplicity of the game and how there ISN'T as much variation and strategy as you believe.

He doesn't have to specifically prepare to fight different kinds of opponent. There are limited amounts of characters to use and, by virtue of seeing so many of the world's best players use them, he probably knows them as well as they do. That, combined with speed, is why he's the best.

It has nothing to do with strategy. It's everything to do with repetitively playing the game as long as he has and being as fast as he is.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-if all you want to do is say this game is button mashing and speed, then go try your luck with your amazing new knowledge..

How does that counter anything I've said? READ my posts. I said that I couldn't play at high level, but Daigo doesn't know anything that anybody here DOESN'T know. He just does it faster, and that's why he'd beat anybody here.

Good luck to the man, he's making money off his ability to win matches. I'm not in here dissing the game, I'm not in here verbally harrassing people. I made a legitimately true claim that the game was way more simple than its pretentious FANS would allow everyone to believe. It wasn't a remark about the game itself in any negative way.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-I'm just wondering how far your limited knowledge on this subject is going to take you in this argument..

Well, I've already handled you. No End N Site is trolling me because he's wrong and can't enter the debate at all anyway, and others are just joining in.

So I suppose this'll go on until you either admit the clear defeat you're suffering, or leave the thread from boredom. Probably the latter, because you and I know that you'll never admit me proving you wrong.

I love how you're asking ME how long my "limited knowledge" will take me, but you're saying nothing to No End despite him relying on trolling and ignorance to reply to me. Such buddy-buddy tactics. No wonder hardly any of you ever venture into debates outside of this thread.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Furthermore, he's not holding a subjective opinion so I'm not sure why he agreed with you. He's telling me it's a fact I'm a Tekken fanboy, and the FACT is I'm not.

I told you that you were wrong in your claims about me. That's that. Any further decision to believe wrongly makes you ignorant.

I'm not starting a fight with anyone. Grow up. This thread is for S.F. discussion, not S.F. fanboys only.

[/b]

...and you're not seeing me trolling S.F. threads bashing it, so why don't YOU cut the bullshit?

Nah, fact is that you're wrong. You have terrible spelling and you're here debating ME because you can't debate the topic civilly like Satsujin and I.

Continue your ignorant trolling and flaming if you wish, because that's all YOU'RE doing. This isn't a debate about me, in which you're factually wrong, it's about a game.

[/B]

O'course you wouldn't call yourself a fanboi, but I'm tellin' you, your posts make you sound like one.

This thread is for SF discussion, not for puttin' down the game in the face of another. Why of all games would you bring up Tekken just to say SF wasn't good? Your bein' a fool if you don't understand how that makes you sound.

You are trollin', you came in this thread and spewed unnecessary bull sh!t just to start a fight. This is what you said...

"It's amazing to see someone make Street Fighter out to be this intricately unique fighting game. It's about whoever's the fastest, that's it. You can over-complicate it all you want, but that's what it comes down to. There are people who dedicate insane amounts of time to being as good as they can be, but they aren't doing anything that can't be taught. It's not a legitimate talent, at all. The fact is, there's only so much you can do. Street Fighter will never be as varied as Tekken, it'll never have the learning curve of Tekken. This is provable by the fact that even hardcore Street Fighter players say that there are elements of the game that can just turn it in your opponent's favour, irrespective of skill. If it was such an intricate game where skill reigned supreme, or even existed, that wouldn't be possible. That's why S.F. players complain about people using techniques that are there to be used; it confronts them with the fact that their skill is ultimately worth nothing. -AC "

There was no need to say this ignorant B.S. to Justframe or mention Tekken, unless your a Tekken fanboi wit a grudge. You basically came from out of nowhere and picked a fight for no reason. Your trollin'. Get a life...

I'm not debatin' about why Tekken is better than SF cuz I don't care, both games are too different to compare, that wasn't my point. My point was that you came in here actin' like some Know-It-All douche bag makin' peeps seem like they were over-complicatin' a game cuz you think it's not as good as Tekken. Your an asswhole and your provin' it wit every post. And your not deabtin' Satsu or anyone else anyone civilly. Your actin' like a pompous jerk off speillin' Nazi whose prolly been banned before arguin' for the hell of it...not cool. If your as old as you say, and you have time to do this, you really need to find a more constructive way to occupy your time, lol.

AC, you still don't understand. It's not about the Fanboy part, it's about his other opinion about you, and he has one, you can read it from his posts and an valid one too.

As for SF IV. How do you define skill?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
All matches are real, what do you think this is; The Matrix?

Why aren't they strategic?

Prove it. Give me examples of someone's natural ability that simply cannot be taught or learned ever.

Not via YouTube spamming, via your own explanation. As an aside, please don't give me nonsense about knowing when you're gonna do a move or any further Daigo polishing, please.

Nobody's psychic

You S.F. fans REALLY are the ones who get pissed whenever someone questions your game. That's the hilarity of all this. I come in and make a claim and you actually start sitting there punching yourselves in the face in frustration. This is especially funny considering I probably played 2 before MOST of you.

Also, stop dodging me. Bitter how? WHAT on Earth is there to be bitter over? People being better? Who cares? Who honestly cares? It's a game. There's always someone better.

You're making absolutely NO sense.

You don't adapt ON the fly, you adapt TO something happening around you and react to it. Adaptation is reactionary, everyone knows that. To adapt is to react appropriately to an existing circumstance and handle it or exist in it appropriately. You're over-complicating this WAY too much.

So, what else do you have? "He's not just fast.", ok. So what is he? "He makes you react how he wants.". No, no he doesn't. If I don't want to do a certain move, he cannot physically make me. He is not Professor X, Satsujin. I know you and others choose to deify this man as if he walked across water, but he really cannot do all of this.

He reacts faster than his opponent and simply does the move first. That's speed and reaction time. That's ALL it is. He doesn't invent moves, does he? Does he ever perform a move that you literally do NOT know how to do? No, because once you learn the moves, you learn the moves. The only difference between him and another person is that he's? Go on. No? Faster, the answer is faster.

Yes, and it's because he's faster. He's not a mythical spirit who happens to be magically good at this game.

Why do you think that's NOT what I'm saying? That is PRECISELY my point. He knows his shit, he knows the game inside out. THAT is not a talent because anyone who decides to, can. Fact. It's not a bottomless pit of combos and trickery; it's the most simple fighting game of all time and anyone can learn anything in it. The reason they'd never beat Daigo is because he is simply the fastest person to probably ever play the game. He doesn't KNOW more, he doesn't know any secrets.

If he did, you wouldn't be sitting there telling me every little detail that he does. Fans sit there and say: "Daigo did this, this, this, then this. He likes to play like this and use this.". Exactly. He's never making anyone go "How did he do that?" in any LITERAL sense. Not in a shocking, "Oh my god that was amazing!" sense, but in the sense of factually not knowing how he pulled a move off.

Your argument is flawed, full of holes and completely faulty. Of course, you will never admit that because none of you will ever admit to being wrong, not to me, but you are.

Re-read what I said.

In real life fights, every opponent is different. Reacting faster simply won't help you if you're a cage fighter. That proves the simplicity of the game and how there ISN'T as much variation and strategy as you believe.

He doesn't have to specifically prepare to fight different kinds of opponent. There are limited amounts of characters to use and, by virtue of seeing so many of the world's best players use them, he probably knows them as well as they do. That, combined with speed, is why he's the best.

It has nothing to do with strategy. It's everything to do with repetitively playing the game as long as he has and being as fast as he is.

How does that counter anything I've said? READ my posts. I said that I couldn't play at high level, but Daigo doesn't know anything that anybody here DOESN'T know. He just does it faster, and that's why he'd beat anybody here.

Good luck to the man, he's making money off his ability to win matches. I'm not in here dissing the game, I'm not in here verbally harrassing people. I made a legitimately true claim that the game was way more simple than its pretentious FANS would allow everyone to believe. It wasn't a remark about the game itself in any negative way.

Well, I've already handled you. No End N Site is trolling me because he's wrong and can't enter the debate at all anyway, and others are just joining in.

So I suppose this'll go on until you either admit the clear defeat you're suffering, or leave the thread from boredom. Probably the latter, because you and I know that you'll never admit me proving you wrong.

I love how you're asking ME how long my "limited knowledge" will take me, but you're saying nothing to No End despite him relying on trolling and ignorance to reply to me. Such buddy-buddy tactics. No wonder hardly any of you ever venture into debates outside of this thread.

-AC

- A real match is when you play seriously for a purpose.. to win in high level play for keepsies (bragging rights?) , money, or maybe even fame?.. a real match demonstrates your vast knowledge of the game and does not consist of sitting there throwing out random moves giving yourself the false sense that you have a chance in hell to get any better

- Uhm.. daigo plays almost all capcom fighters.. he's THE (well known even) example of what people who play tourneys for keepsies, strive for.. theres no "polishing" necessary.. he speaks for himself tenfold

do you know of players like Ogawa (who plays Eddie in guilty gear?) who will devour your soul with his masterful command over the negative edge that governs Eddies moves? course you dont..
how about Shounen?.. who plays arguably THE best testament hands down... these are only two from other games who are absolutely amazing players in guilty gear

-You're bitter.. its obvious.. or you're just a troll.. taking a shit on something people enjoy to do is just not P.C. mr centauri.. so lets not kid ourselves

- Basically.. daigo knows that you (whoever in general, not literally you) are a scrub.. and that you're going to try something dumb eventually.. and he's going to zone you and prod at your defenses..and you're going to be taking chip damage from fireball traps.. and chip damage = eventual death.. so tell me how you wouldnt be forced to act when eventual death is the end result?

did you not see the zone and poke he used on justin, and he barely lost 20% life? justin then proceeded to play like shit out of desperation, eating right out of daigos hand and into the trash can

did you not see his walk-up shoryu when the other dude was blocking?.. that is NOT reaction or speed.. that is knowing the other person is going to try something because you are walking up to them, and it is demonstrative of his great ability

-but see.. what you're ALSO saying is that its ONLY the do's and don'ts + speed = some kind of retarded idea that combined, its an I WIN button.. thats whats hilarious to me and others.. you simply dont see the other fundamentals at work because you dont play, and you dont want to see them either

-You're seriously going to bring "IRL" into this?.. lmao.. thats ridiculous.. I'm not dignifying this area of the convo..OBVIOUSLY real life is more complicated than a 2d fighter.. what are you going to tell me next?.. Cookin Mama is less skilled than Betty Crocker?

-He doesn't just do it faster.. thats what you're not understanding.. and its really sad.. you have NO argument at all.. and I'm not even trying to be an ass.. I just see opinions spouting from someone who doesn't play

-I havent read a single thing No End has said. how are we buddy trolling?.. if anyone trolled here it was you.. there are much nicer ways to ask the same questions without takin a dump on the subject

-People know daigo is amazing.. did you not see the thousands of people standing up cheering?.. if just any old schmo can do what he did.. wheres the new daigo then?.. its been what?.. probably somewhere around 5 - 10 years?

Anyways.. lookie who's talkin professor X.. "OMG I know you're wrong before you know it".. cuz mang.. I sure know I'm not wrong..

JustFrame is honestly saying the same thing I'm saying.. I just happen to be going into a little more detail.. I honestly think if he went into the technics of it all.. you'd have no idea what you're reading.. best find yourself some kind of street fighter wiki before the wall of text comes XD

Well, No End N Site, you seemingly have zero interest in civil discussion.

You are purposefully misunderstanding my posts and continually flaming, there's no need for it. When you've grown up and made some sensible points, I'll address you. Any further replies aimed at me personally will be dealt with via PM. Calm yourself down, kid. It's not a fight, it's a debate. Relax, just...breathe.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- A real match is when you play seriously for a purpose.. to win in high level play for keepsies (bragging rights?) , money, or maybe even fame?.. a real match demonstrates your vast knowledge of the game and does not consist of sitting there throwing out random moves giving yourself the false sense that you have a chance in hell to get any better

Again, what "vast knowledge of the game"? Street Fighter isn't intricate enough for anyone to have "vast" knowledge of it. This is the point you're missing.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- Uhm.. daigo plays almost all capcom fighters.. he's THE (well known even) example of what people who play tourneys for keepsies, strive for.. theres no "polishing" necessary.. he speaks for himself tenfold

do you know of players like Ogawa (who plays Eddie in guilty gear?) who will devour your soul with his masterful command over the negative edge that governs Eddies moves? course you dont..
how about Shounen?.. who plays arguably THE best testament hands down... these are only two from other games who are absolutely amazing players in guilty gear

Now you're talking about devouring souls. Stop kissing the asses of these people and answer my question:

How do you define natural ability in Street Fighter? You obviously believe that you can be SO good that it's impossible to learn or train to be that good, that's the implication you're giving.

Now, considering this is STREET FIGHTER we're talking about, a very simplistic fighting game (Whether YOU like it or not), how does that work?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-You're bitter.. its obvious.. or you're just a troll.. taking a shit on something people enjoy to do is just not P.C. mr centauri.. so lets not kid ourselves

Are you running out of things to say? I'm not trolling at all, you are. You are because you're not putting out any legit or sensible arguments, you're insisting things and ignoring things. You and that other guy keep saying I'm bitter, but bitter about what? If you can't tell me, then be quiet about it. It's a stupid claim and it isn't making your argument any heavier. Next time, just reply to the parts you have something to say about. This "bitter" b.s. is only making YOU look petty. I've explained civilly to you why it has nothing to do with bitterness, logically, so get off the pot.

It only makes you look like you're desperate for reply material.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
- Basically.. daigo knows that you (whoever in general, not literally you) are a scrub.. and that you're going to try something dumb eventually.. and he's going to zone you and prod at your defenses..and you're going to be taking chip damage from fireball traps.. and chip damage = eventual death.. so tell me how you wouldnt be forced to act when eventual death is the end result?

did you not see the zone and poke he used on justin, and he barely lost 20% life? justin then proceeded to play like shit out of desperation, eating right out of daigos hand and into the trash can

did you not see his walk-up shoryu when the other dude was blocking?.. that is NOT reaction or speed.. that is knowing the other person is going to try something because you are walking up to them, and it is demonstrative of his great ability

It's not a demonstration of great ability at all. You just sat there and literally told me, down to the word, what he was doing. He's not making shit up, is he? He's not doing anything you are incapable of doing. This is what you don't understand.

Daigo has been playing Street Fighter since he was 11, so I've read. He's 28 now, if I worked it out correctly. If you consider how rampantly he has played that game in 17 years, almost two decades, how can you sit there and say it's "natural"? There is NOT much to learn on Street Fighter, that is a fact. The moves list is not bottomless and neither are the different effects.

So, what do you get out of 17 years of playing that makes you Daigo? Knowledge. Not of the game, but of the opponents. There are only so many characters he can face and there's obviously a way to and a way NOT to use them. He has probably played the world's best with each character more than once, so he knows MORE than enough about how they're used and how the opponents can use them.

It's not knowledge of the game. His reaction time stems from the fact that he learned what little there is to know and then spent the following 17 years getting faster at doing that.

It's really not that hard to understand. It's absolutely about speed.

In real life M.M.A., you can't learn a moves list and repeatedly get faster at doing them to become the best, hopefully reacting first each time. You have to prepare for individual opponents and adapt because there isn't really any limit to what styles you can combine or fuse together.

In S.F., you learn your character's move set and then you simply have to hope that you are faster at employing it than the person you're playing. That's all there is to it.

Even IF there was a degree of added ability, your proposal that there's a degree of natural ability is ludicrous. It's not like guitar playing, it's a set game.

Daigo isn't unbeatable, he loses rounds, he gets K.O.ed. This proves my theory.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-but see.. what you're ALSO saying is that its ONLY the do's and don'ts + speed = some kind of retarded idea that combined, its an I WIN button.. thats whats hilarious to me and others.. you simply dont see the other fundamentals at work because you dont play, and you dont want to see them either

Ok, now you're resorting to: "We all see why you're wrong and you don't because you don't want to. This is the moment when all of us S.F. fans band together and agree, despite your posts.".

I expected better. If I'd known you were gonna waste my time with such a cheap tactic I wouldn't have bothered trying to talk to you reasonably, which I have.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-You're seriously going to bring "IRL" into this?.. lmao.. thats ridiculous.. I'm not dignifying this area of the convo..OBVIOUSLY real life is more complicated than a 2d fighter.. what are you going to tell me next?.. Cookin Mama is less skilled than Betty Crocker?

If you don't understand why it's relevant then clearly I gave you more intelligence points than you actually have.

It's about your adaptation argument and why it doesn't work.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-He doesn't just do it faster.. thats what you're not understanding.. and its really sad.. you have NO argument at all.. and I'm not even trying to be an ass.. I just see opinions spouting from someone who doesn't play

Again, now you're resorting to: "No, you. No, you're wrong.".

That's what's sad. Of course I have an argument, dude. These are not poorly constructed posts filled with flaming, spam and abuse, are they? I'm respectfully addressing you with points and arguments.

YOU don't want to do this any longer because you can't counter me, that's why you're sowing the seeds for the inevitable: "I'm done with you, you obviously know nothing." get-out clause, in which you'll leave the debate without having won, but without having admit you lost.

Been there, seen it a million times. My fault, I should have expected better.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-I havent read a single thing No End has said. how are we buddy trolling?.. if anyone trolled here it was you.. there are much nicer ways to ask the same questions without takin a dump on the subject

Again with the damn ignorance, man.

I never took a dump on the game AT ALL. I LIKE the game, I am not obsessive about it but I like it. I have liked it for years, I liked it before a lot of people in this thread, most likely.

My remark was aimed at the people, and it wasn't a "dump". Stop being so over-dramatic. I have nothing personal against you, but you're being foolish now.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-People know daigo is amazing.. did you not see the thousands of people standing up cheering?.. if just any old schmo can do what he did.. wheres the new daigo then?.. its been what?.. probably somewhere around 5 - 10 years?

People stand up and cheer at a Britney Spears concert, at American Idol. Talent? Yeah, take that argument to the garbage can and don't ever let it see the light of day again.

Also, I've dealt with that section of the argument. It's not because people can't, it's because people necessarily don't want to. It doesn't change what I said about Daigo. I find his matches entertaining as I'm sure all of you do, but I've been just as entertained watching two decent players play in an arcade.

As for JustFrame: If all he can do is repeat what you've said, I'm not going to sit here and waste my time. You will undoubtedly, factually start waving cheerleading pom poms for him, so will No End etc. It's what happens.

Someone's losing a debate, another shows up to help, so the people losing shield themselves with the flawed notion that if all the losers agree that the winner isn't so, then he isn't.

Been there, done that. It's a common tactic on this forum. I've been here long enough to see it happen. I'm just interested in discussing this subject, now the S.F. thread circle-jerk.

-AC