Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Why would magneto react at light speed to her blast when you are saying she is building up energy. Doesn't he sense that? Wouldn't he know to have a shield handy seeing as she is building up energy and he is like one of the kings of energy manip and perception of said energies?
If you look at the scan again, you'll notice that while she was building up her energies from the crowd, he did not have a shield around him.
Originally posted by batdude123That isn't the point. He has energy senses right? So all he would have to do is anticipate the release or sense when she is releasing it. Kinda like how wonder woman didn't actually tag flash but just anticipated where he was going to be. Mags just anticipated the release and build up of her energy. he is after all magneto. He does sense these things right? i could see if she had no build up. but even then, magneto can sense when people are even about to activate thier powers. He's shut the xmen off before they could get a round fired. Energy senses for the win. Not light speed reaction time.
If you look at the scan again, you'll notice that while she was building up her energies from the crowd, he did not have a shield around him.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That isn't the point. He has energy senses right? So all he would have to do is anticipate the release or sense when she is releasing it. Kinda like how wonder woman didn't actually tag flash but just anticipated where he was going to be. Mags just anticipated the release and build up of her energy. he is after all magneto. He does sense these things right? i could see if she had no build up. but even then, magneto can sense when people are even about to activate thier powers. He's shut the xmen off before they could get a round fired. Energy senses for the win. Not light speed reaction time.
Uh... no.
Magneto is not a seer. He has energy senses, yes, but that doesn't mean he can anticipate when someone decides to fire off their said energies. However even then, anticipation of when the release of energy is going to occur still requires extremely quick reflexes in order to get a shield up in time.
Originally posted by batdude123But considerably less reflexes when you can sense the person's energy build up. You know it's coming. And it's energy. Something he is quite good at. I'd like to see him putting up a shield against something non energy, non metal, in that amount of time. Like you know, a punch.
Uh... no.Magneto is not a seer. He has energy senses, yes, but that doesn't mean he can anticipate when someone decides to fire off their said energies. However even then, anticipation of when the release of energy is going to occur still requires extremely quick reflexes in order to get a shield up in time.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirlThis doesn't change the fact that he can't anticipate when said energy is going to actually be fired directly at him. Thus, it's still based on reflexes.
But considerably less reflexes when you can sense the person's energy build up. You know it's coming. And it's energy. Something he is quite good at. I'd like to see him putting up a shield against something non energy, non metal, in that amount of time. Like you know, a punch.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Is he stronger than her?
Nope but not that far behind.
Faster?
Mindrape or his voice? He'll soothe her with lullaby.
Can he get around her defenses?
Sure. Mindrape.
What her his defenses like against, Speed, her strength, her weapons, her skill? [/B]
Strength, force field, matter manipulate, mind manipulation, and singing "Oh McDonalds" or telling her the story of his life.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing1.Diana dwarfs him in strength. Without a TON of amping, it's not even close to being a contest.
Nope but not that far behind.Mindrape or his voice? He'll soothe her with lullaby.
Sure. Mindrape.
Strength, force field, matter manipulate, mind manipulation, and singing "Oh McDonalds" or telling her the story of his life.
2. Di's immune to telepathy, which doesn't matter, since Black Bolt doesn't possess it. He could manipulate with the electron flow to/from her brain, but that would take more time than he'll have here.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Nope but not that far behind.Mindrape or his voice? He'll soothe her with lullaby.
Sure. Mindrape.
Strength, force field, matter manipulate, mind manipulation, and singing "Oh McDonalds" or telling her the story of his life.
Ok Just how strong is he? Can he cope with her Skill, strength advantage and Speed?
Since when has WW been subject to mind rape by a non magical, non skyfather being?
Is his voice going to get around her shields? She does have knowlege of him for this fight.
Circe can't matter manipulate Diana, since when could he?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
[B]Ok Just how strong is he? Can he cope with her Skill, strength advantage and Speed?
Takes shots from Hulk, slugs it out with Gladiator and Thor evenly.
Since when has WW been subject to mind rape by a non magical, non skyfather being?
Whoops. Forgot that damn immunity
Is his voice going to get around her shields? She does have knowlege of him for this fight.
Nope. Is she going to cross her arms forever?
Circe can't do it, since when could he?
She could sing as well as he can? 'Cause I recall his whispers have KOed Hulk, Gladiator, and Apocalypse.
This is proably one of the few times where me and Nvr are on the opposite sides of the argument .
I agree with Batdude. Magneto can react fast enough to put up his shield against Wonder Woman due to his stated and shown vastly superior reaction times compared to normal humans.
But I don't see Black Bolt soloing WW .
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Takes shots from Hulk, slugs it out with Gladiator and Thor evenly.Whoops. Forgot that damn immunity
Nope. Is she going to cross her arms forever?
She could sing as well as he can? 'Cause I recall his whispers have KOed Hulk, Gladiator, and Apocalypse.
HAs Glads actually used his speed as a tacticle weapon against BB? I'm sure Thor and Hulk haven't. They have no speed. As for her crossing her arms forever, now what makes you think she would need to. After he either exaust himself, she pummels him, or she redirects his own attack against him. You know she has been known to do that with the aegis shield.
Isn't Wonder Woman's shield semi spherical only? Meaning it's not really a whole sphere because she needed to use her strength to support the shield when she deflected the Gods' blast kinda like using strength to hold up an umbrella under a waterfall. That means she's still vulnerable from behind even if her shield is raised. By the way how many times has WW used her shield?
Originally posted by psy_blade
Isn't Wonder Woman's shield semi spherical only? Meaning it's not really a whole sphere because she needed to use her strength to support the shield when she deflected the Gods' blast kinda like using strength to hold up an umbrella under a waterfall. That means she's still vulnerable from behind even if her shield is raised. By the way how many times has WW used her shield?
No. She once fell, and the sphere protected her from behind. She had to use her strength to direct the force of the blast.
I don't really see wonder woman taking this, at least not for the majority.
my reasons are:
Magneto's powers operate at essentially the speed of thought and he DOES have a shield he can use, and that thing's taken some serious punishment.
but beyond that, has anyone ever considered magneto could/would use his powers to immobilize Wonder Woman while BB goes on the offensive?
For those not convinced he's strong enough to do this, consider magneto easily immobilized ALL of the Xmen, Xfactor, Xforce, AND Excalibur teams simultaneously while pulling asteroid M out of Orbit and holding it a mile above the earth.
Asteroid M was large enough to be seen from New York City when it was hovering over massachusetts. The thing is MASSIVE.
If Magneto isn't strong enough to outright immobilize her (debatable, but likely) he IS strong enough to seriously slow her down, making a speedblitz a non-option.
Also: Black Bolt doesn't need to scream. the guy can create antimatter from nothing. Wonder Woman isn't durable enough to survive a continuous antimatter assault unshielded.
against either one of them she has a good chance to win, but not both.
[QUOTE=9688528]Originally posted by batdude123
Fair enough.
"Thanks, but I don’t really need the breakdown of a panel explained to me.
In the first panel’s dialogue, she’s building up her energy, correct? And as she’s accumulating power, Magneto does NOT have a force field up. Then, she yells “never again!!!” [b]while the blast is already directed towards him. And that’s completely obvious from the scan in question."
For some reason you're still not getting my point. You do release a panel is summary of what happens in a few seconds of time right? There's no way to know at what millisecond each syllable and each movement was made.
"If you’re trying to suggest that Magneto put up the shield before the blast was fired, then it would’ve had to have happened sometime between her motions downward and the actual energy blast that was fired. Regardless, the energy could also have been streaming from her hands prior to her arms being fully extended. Meaning, the energy could have been headed in Magneto's direction before the arms were all the way down and stretched outward. And you have to take into consideration that Magneto was only about five feet away."
ok if you can accept that people fire blasts out of their elbows on a normal basis and then move their arms in line with the blast for some reason then I can accept that interpretation. elbow blasts for the win.
"Actually I do have a reason for it, considering that’s what was shown in the scan. Nothing other than that. Suggesting otherwise is reaching for a conclusion that certainly isn’t backed up by what’s shown."
again, for like the 6th time, a panel is a summary of a period of time. ok..example. Scans of daredevil jumping around they often show it as several images of him. does this mean daredevil can make copies of himself to move? no... we are summarizing what happens in a couple seconds of time. Same situation here. I'm not saying your interpretation is wrong. I'm just saying theres no reason to believe it's right.
"This is just as much of an assumption."
The difference is i'm backing up my assumptions with some logic. If someone looks like they're going to attack you, you defend. I think we can agree on that. So far you haven't given me any reasons for your assumption besides "it's obvious from the scan" which I have provided reasoning that it is not.
"And why is so outrageous for Magneto to be able to put his shield up after the blast was fired?
http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thexmenvstheavengers042xb7.jpg
At least acknowledge that he’s capable of it."
I'm actually just arguing your reasoning for believing this not magneto's capabilities. I didn't read the comic this scan was from but from the scan it seems like magneto is just staying "psychically" (or magnetically i guess. its his consciousness i'll say psychic) linked with ms. marvel. You don't have to be reacting at light speed to necessarily do that. It's like talking on a cell phone with someone in a plane. You dont' have to be reacting at mach 1 to talk, the technology allows speed of the users not to be an issue. this seems to be what magnetos powers are doing here. it's like how psychics can link minds with anyone in the world. Just because they can connect with the person in a second doesn't mean their reaction time is fast enough to individually scan like every mind in the world looking for that one person.
But i'm not even quite sure what magneto is doing in that scan so I could be speaking nonsense. I'd need more evidence to take anything about magneto's abilities from that scan alone.
"I agree. What happened in-between there is anyone’s guess. However, all the second scan depicted was her blast. And at the end of the first scan, he was “shieldless,” for lack of a better word. Hence why I think he could’ve gotten the shield up after the energy was fired."
Well you can believe it if you want. I just try not to speculate when thens no good evidence for something. Magneto rules on his own without additional assumptions. And there are good scans of him having like 1400% of a normal humans reactions or something like that. I will reserve my opinion on if he can have close to light speed reactions until I'm shown a more conclusive scan
Originally posted by bobbi
For some reason you're still not getting my point. You do release a panel is summary of what happens in a few seconds of time right? There's no way to know at what millisecond each syllable and each movement was made.
I get your “point” just fine. But the yell is in and of itself, trivial to the actual feat for Magneto. You’re just nitpicking at it to overcomplicate things and say that it made him aware of when she was going to fire. If you want to go ahead and believe that her yell tipped him off about the blast, there’s no evidence to suggest it. She could have just as easily said it after she started blasting.
Originally posted by bobbi
ok if you can accept that people fire blasts out of their elbows on a normal basis and then move their arms in line with the blast for some reason then I can accept that interpretation. elbow blasts for the win.
Heh… cute.
Sarcasm aside, the way her arms were gathering the energy, all she had to do was turn her hands for the blast to be directed towards him. In the second panel, you can see that she has her hands out and her palms facing him. In the first panel, she had the sides of her hands facing him. All it required was a 90 degree turn of her forearms. At that point, energy could have been streaming from her hands in his direction before full extension of the elbows.
Therefore, it’s not exactly illogical to assume that the blast was heading for him before her arms were completely extended
Originally posted by bobbi
again, for like the 6th time, a panel is a summary of a period of time. ok..example. Scans of daredevil jumping around they often show it as several images of him. does this mean daredevil can make copies of himself to move? no... we are summarizing what happens in a couple seconds of time. Same situation here. I'm not saying your interpretation is wrong. I'm just saying theres no reason to believe it's right.
Actually, I do have another theory about how Magneto put his shield up after her blast was fired. Notice how close Magneto was to her and the crowd in the first panel? He looked to be no more than 6-8 feet away from them.
Then in the second panel when the blast was taking place, no purple sphere was present in the lower right hand corner. Meaning, a shield was not present at the time she fired off that blast. This also brings up the question of what happened to the audience behind Dazzler. Well, it could be that from the source of the light blast (Dazzler), the luminosity was so great that you could not see what was behind it. If you look at Dazzler in the second panel, you’ll notice that there’s a sort of “explosion” (for lack of a better word) around her body of photonic energy.
This would lead one to believe that Magneto put his shield up after the blast in question occurred.
Now, you could argue that the artist decided to focus directly on her without depicting the other characters simply for dramatic effect. Either way, I’m simply giving a plausible scenario that might be taking place in that instance.
Originally posted by bobbi
The difference is i'm backing up my assumptions with some logic. If someone looks like they're going to attack you, you defend. I think we can agree on that. So far you haven't given me any reasons for your assumption besides "it's obvious from the scan" which I have provided reasoning that it is not.
See above.
Originally posted by bobbi
I'm actually just arguing your reasoning for believing this not magneto's capabilities. I didn't read the comic this scan was from but from the scan it seems like magneto is just staying "psychically" (or magnetically i guess. its his consciousness i'll say psychic) linked with ms. marvel. You don't have to be reacting at light speed to necessarily do that. It's like talking on a cell phone with someone in a plane. You dont' have to be reacting at mach 1 to talk, the technology allows speed of the users not to be an issue. this seems to be what magnetos powers are doing here. it's like how psychics can link minds with anyone in the world. Just because they can connect with the person in a second doesn't mean their reaction time is fast enough to individually scan like every mind in the world looking for that one person.But i'm not even quite sure what magneto is doing in that scan so I could be speaking nonsense. I'd need more evidence to take anything about magneto's abilities from that scan alone.
No, his conscious is not “hitching a ride” so to speak with Captain Marvel in that scan.
Here’s another example of it without the presence of Monica there.
http://img484.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thexmenvstheavengers042bj4.jpg
Originally posted by bobbi
Well you can believe it if you want. I just try not to speculate when thens no good evidence for something. Magneto rules on his own without additional assumptions. And there are good scans of him having like 1400% of a normal humans reactions or something like that. I will reserve my opinion on if he can have close to light speed reactions until I'm shown a more conclusive scan
There are a few examples in here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=417866&pagenumber=1
