Originally posted by Endless Mike
A thread where Goku actually wins
Goku always win. You just underrate him and overrate everyone else. I cant WAIT until they open a thread up that me and you use to debate on daily. I would literally crush you because everything that I said in THAT thread was true. Faster than light, yeah right.
Originally posted by carver91. Only he can't. The first confirmed DBZ planet buster was Freeza.
Anyone who doesnt think that goku couldnt destroy a planet BEFORE landing on the namekian planet knows NOTHING about DBZ.By the way, goku wins this 10/10. Enel NEVER his entire career been hit by a punch matching gokus punching power.
This is a none fight.
2. Enel has never been hit by a punch that was not rubber and will not be hit by Goku's.
If Goku wins this fight, it is not because of his physical strength.
Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Only he can't. The first confirmed DBZ planet buster was Freeza.2. Enel has never been hit by a punch that was not rubber and will not be hit by Goku's.
If Goku wins this fight, it is not because of his physical strength.
Yes he did possess enough power to destroy a planet. I'm not going to do all of the caculation crap to prove this but its pretty much common sense that he had the power level to do so and I'm basing this off of what I seen off of regular dragonball alone.
If someone a hundred times more weaker than you can destroy a moon with a simple blast then you possess far more KI that than person, a planet should be nothing but a mere play toy to that person.
I thought they made dragonball pretty much common sense with the power level scope. The more KI you have, the stronger you are, faster, more durable you are, and more destructive energy you can produce. 😕
The last time we debated I crushed all of your points and you ran away like a little girl.
Your arguments are retarded.
Case in point:
Originally posted by carver9
Yes he did possess enough power to destroy a planet. I'm not going to do all of the caculation crap to prove this but its pretty much common sense that he had the power level to do so and I'm basing this off of what I seen off of regular dragonball alone.
Translation: "I have no proof but just trust me okay?"
If someone a hundred times more weaker than you can destroy a moon with a simple blast then you possess far more KI that than person, a planet should be nothing but a mere play toy to that person.
First of all, "100 times weaker" is simply a number you made up with no basis in fact. Second of all, if you knew anything about what you were talking about, you would realize that the earth's GBE is over 1800 times that of the moon.
I thought they made dragonball pretty much common sense with the power level scope. The more KI you have, the stronger you are, faster, more durable you are, and more destructive energy you can produce.
Oh of course, no one is denying that. The problem is that you just use unfounded extrapolation. "This guy destroyed a planet, so this guy who is stronger than him can destroy the galaxy!" That's just stupid with no basis whatsoever in fact. Frieza didn't even destroy Namek with brute force, he used a chain reaction (since it took so long for the planet to explode). The only character in canon who actually demonstrated the ability to destroy an earth-size planet instantly was Kid Buu.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
The last time we debated I crushed all of your points and you ran away like a little girl.Your arguments are retarded.
Case in point:
Translation: "I have no proof but just trust me okay?"
First of all, "100 times weaker" is simply a number you made up with no basis in fact. Second of all, if you knew anything about what you were talking about, you would realize that the earth's GBE is over 1800 times that of the moon.
Oh of course, no one is denying that. The problem is that you just use unfounded extrapolation. "This guy destroyed a planet, so this guy who is stronger than him can destroy the galaxy!" That's just stupid with no basis whatsoever in fact. Frieza didn't even destroy Namek with brute force, he used a chain reaction (since it took so long for the planet to explode). The only character in canon who actually demonstrated the ability to destroy an earth-size planet instantly was Kid Buu.
Naah, its more like you are in denial.
You didnt stomp ANYTHING, I asked you to prove that a character can FIGHT at the speed of light and you didnt show me one scan. You put up a scan of space flight and that was proven wrong from Mcduffie himself when he recently wrote something stating that this PERSON can only achieve light speed in space; just like I said 50 yrs ago. I then told you that hundreds of characters that cant even break the speed of sound on earth achieved light speed in space and showed you proof of this but you still throw out space flight scans like it proved a case or something. Your arguments were lame and provided no evidence and goind by showings of combat speed, goku during his child hood combat speed feats were much more impressive.
As for your post, again, if Picollo can destroy a moon with two fingers without even using half of his power level I am pretty sure a planet would be nothing to him. People in DBZ just didnt go around busting planets up but it was made quite known and sure that they had the power to do so. If a person can read what power level you have and can basically tell you WHAT you can do with that power level then its pretty much safe to say that they knew what they were talking about.
Thats like telling a scientist that they are wrong at something that they were trained all of their lives to know.
It was mentioned during the goku vs vegeta fight that they could bust planets and it holds weight. The reason WHY it holds weight is because 1). They can read powerlevels. They can tell how powerful a person is and if they are stronger or weaker than a person. 2). If character A can destroy a planet and character B is stronger than this person by a large gap then its pretty much safe to say that character B is also a planet buster.
You try to put DragonBall characters at levels that they surpassed after the raditz saga. Learn what reading "power levels" mean and come back and holla at me.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Filler and non-canon
Filler in your eyes but the sad thing is the same person who did the manga also aided at doing the anime so that basically throw the "filler" sh** out of the window.
If he had no partake with the dbz anime then yes, you would have an argument but 😕 the sad thing is...............he did.
The anime is just as cannon as the manga.
Originally posted by carver9
Naah, its more like you are in denial.You didnt stomp ANYTHING, I asked you to prove that a character can FIGHT at the speed of light and you didnt show me one scan. You put up a scan of space flight and that was proven wrong from Mcduffie himself when he recently wrote something stating that this PERSON can only achieve light speed in space; just like I said 50 yrs ago.
That's the complete opposite of what he said. Furthermore going lightspeed on earth would wreck the planet, so obviously he's not going to do that normally.
I then told you that hundreds of characters that cant even break the speed of sound on earth achieved light speed in space and showed you proof of this
No you didn't.
but you still throw out space flight scans like it proved a case or something. Your arguments were lame and provided no evidence and goind by showings of combat speed, goku during his child hood combat speed feats were much more impressive.
Because they have blurry lines and afterimages? 🙄
As for your post, again, if Picollo can destroy a moon with two fingers without even using half of his power level
He did no such thing. He used one hand (as if it matters what part of your body you use anyway, as they can channel as much ki as they want into any body part) and it was never said he "wasn't even using half of his power", you made that up.
I am pretty sure a planet would be nothing to him.
Says you, aka baseless claim with no evidence. Please learn the science behind these things before claiming them.
People in DBZ just didnt go around busting planets up but it was made quite known and sure that they had the power to do so. If a person can read what power level you have and can basically tell you WHAT you can do with that power level then its pretty much safe to say that they knew what they were talking about.
Not if they have no reference point. Before the Frieza saga, none of the main characters had ever seen a planet being destroyed, so how would they know if someone had enough power to do so? If a scientist like Bulma said it then I would be more inclined to believe it but as it stands it's just hyperbole.
Thats like telling a scientist that they are wrong at something that they were trained all of their lives to know.
Wrong, because scientists use - get this - actual science to determine things. In other words, it's actually quantifiable by the laws of physics, not just "wow this guy feels stronger than what I have felt before, I guess he can destroy the planet" with no reference point.
It was mentioned during the goku vs vegeta fight that they could bust planets and it holds weight.
No it doesn't. That's called hyperbole. Vegeta also said he was the strongest in the universe in that very same scene, yet he himself knew that wasn't true (he knew Frieza was stronger than him). Why should we believe him when he was obviously having a mental breakdown?
The reason WHY it holds weight is because 1). They can read powerlevels. They can tell how powerful a person is and if they are stronger or weaker than a person. 2).
But like I said, they have no reference point. Goku had never seen a planet being destroyed by then, so how would he know how much it took to do so?
If character A can destroy a planet and character B is stronger than this person by a large gap then its pretty much safe to say that character B is also a planet buster.
It depends on the method used. If one character can destroy a planet via some weird chain reaction, then another person could be stronger but lack that particular ability.
You try to put DragonBall characters at levels that they surpassed after the raditz saga. Learn what reading "power levels" mean and come back and holla at me.
Power levels are completely inconsistent and useless for cross universe comparisons. The farmer with a PL of 5 would have more power than nuclear weapons if we scale it by Roshi destroying the moon with a PL of 139.
Filler in your eyes but the sad thing is the same person who did the manga also aided at doing the anime so that basically throw the "filler" sh** out of the window.
Wrong. Akira Toriyama did nothing more than contribute one or two character designs for the anime. He didn't write the plotlines or anything. In fact in an interview he stated that he was constantly surprised by how the anime studio did things.
Also the fact that you don't even know the name of the person who created the entire Dragonball franchise is yet more proof that you are talking out of your ass and have no idea what you are speaking of. I bet you couldn't even name any other work he did if you were asked (no googling).
If he had no partake with the dbz anime then yes, you would have an argument but confused the sad thing is...............he did.The anime is just as cannon as the manga.
No it's not. Only the original work, aka the manga, is canon. The anime is simply an adaptation by the studio. In fact they are remaking it and removing most of the filler.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Not if they have no reference point. Before the Frieza saga, none of the main characters had ever seen a planet being destroyed, so how would they know if someone had enough power to do so? If a scientist like Bulma said it then I would be more inclined to believe it but as it stands it's just hyperbole.Wrong, because scientists use - get this - actual science to determine things. In other words, it's actually quantifiable by the laws of physics, not just "wow this guy feels stronger than what I have felt before, I guess he can destroy the planet" with no reference point.
No it doesn't. That's called hyperbole. Vegeta also said he was the strongest in the universe in that very same scene, yet he himself knew that wasn't true (he knew Frieza was stronger than him). Why should we believe him when he was obviously having a mental breakdown?
But like I said, they have no reference point. Goku had never seen a planet being destroyed by then, so how would he know how much it took to do so?
It depends on the method used. If one character can destroy a planet via some weird chain reaction, then another person could be stronger but lack that particular ability.
Power levels are completely inconsistent and useless for cross universe comparisons. The farmer with a PL of 5 would have more power than nuclear weapons if we scale it by Roshi destroying the moon with a PL of 139.
Wrong. Akira Toriyama did nothing more than contribute one or two character designs for the anime. He didn't write the plotlines or anything. In fact in an interview he stated that he was constantly surprised by how the anime studio did things.
Also the fact that you don't even know the name of the person who created the entire Dragonball franchise is yet more proof that you are talking out of your ass and have no idea what you are speaking of. I bet you couldn't even name any other work he did if you were asked (no googling).
No it's not. Only the original work, aka the manga, is canon. The anime is simply an adaptation by the studio. In fact they are remaking it and removing most of the filler.
Saiyans were sent alone planet to planet to destroy them, in a flashback (7 seconds at the most) Vegeta is seen destroying a planet. Never did he say he hasn't seen one destroyed
Arguing the laws of physics with any anime makes no sense cause they're constantly broken ermm
Vegeta always says he is the strongest until the majin saga where he notices he'll never pass Goku.
If Goku never seen a planet destroyed but Vegeta has, point was?
50 to 5 is a huge difference in power levels on dbz ermm
For the most part still accurate, I doubt he would've let them change it around if he was still more a part of it, otherwise it would've ended up like GT.
Although it wasn't directed at me
Spoiler:
Dragon Quest and its pretty good game series
DBZ Kai, they also added in new fight scenes, I plan on watching it soon, they're around the frieza fight already.
Originally posted by SpadeKing
Saiyans were sent alone planet to planet to destroy them, in a flashback (7 seconds at the most) Vegeta is seen destroying a planet. Never did he say he hasn't seen one destroyed
Stop using filler.
Arguing the laws of physics with any anime makes no sense cause they're constantly broken ermm
Which is what you have to make allowances for, not just say you can ignore them whenever you want.
Vegeta always says he is the strongest until the majin saga where he notices he'll never pass Goku.
Vegeta knew Frieza was stronger than him. That's why he was afraid to take him on without getting stronger first, and that's why he wanted to use the dragonballs to make himself immortal.
If Goku never seen a planet destroyed but Vegeta has, point was?
Point was his argument relied on Goku believing him, whereas I already pointed out that Vegeta was not in his right state of mind when he made that statement.
50 to 5 is a huge difference in power levels on dbz ermm
Of course but it's not a logical scale so it's impossible to quantify by how much
For the most part still accurate, I doubt he would've let them change it around if he was still more a part of it, otherwise it would've ended up like GT.
Believe it or not there are a lot of anime adaptations of manga that completely change the story, look at Trigun or the first Fullmetal Alchemist anime for example. Toriyama had no direct involvement with the anime, he didn't write the plot for the filler episodes, like I said the most he did was contribute some character designs (like Gregory, the grasshopper on King Kai's planet)
Although it wasn't directed at meSpoiler:
Dragon Quest and its pretty good game series
Yes although I was asking carver since he seems pretty ignorant.
DBZ Kai, they also added in new fight scenes, I plan on watching it soon, they're around the frieza fight already.
Yes there's still filler in Kai but for the most part it's more true to the manga than the first anime since they got rid of a lot of filler.
Vegeta always thinks he is the strongest, until someone he knows is stronger appears, he only knew Frieza was stronger after hearing about those transformations I just don't think he knew by how much.
I'm not sure how much for the power levels, I just know 5 shouldn't be that much... What would Hercule's power level be hmm
I only got to see one episode of trigun before they took it off tv and the first two episodes of full metal and some random eps before they changed the tv schedule here.
Then again I never read the Mangas for those.
I know he only did drawings, but they had to let him look at the script, I guess he agreed to it all as long as it would agree with his manga or if he just liked the script (i.e. like he said for DB Evolution... I personally think he lied).
I felt just about as bad about the movie for that game than I did for DB Evolution facepalm
I hope they do it in English and air it here or if they did do it in English I hope I can find it, all I have is Japanese with English subs
Originally posted by SpadeKing
Vegeta always thinks he is the strongest, until someone he knows is stronger appears, he only knew Frieza was stronger after hearing about those transformations I just don't think he knew by how much.
No, he knew Frieza was stronger, or else he would have tried to challenge him first. There's a reason he wanted to make himself immortal with the dragonballs. He knew he was no match for Frieza.
I'm not sure how much for the power levels, I just know 5 shouldn't be that much... What would Hercule's power level be hmm
The point is the the scale doesn't make sense so as a predictive algorithm, it's worthless. You can use it to tell that a character with a higher PL will beat one with a low PL, but that's pretty much it. Toriyama himself gave up on using it after the Frieza saga since it was too confusing and inconsistent.
I only got to see one episode of trigun before they took it off tv and the first two episodes of full metal and some random eps before they changed the tv schedule here.
Then again I never read the Mangas for those.
The mangas are completely different, the anime adaptations started by following the manga but they eventually diverged into completely different plots. Another example is the first Hellsing anime.
I know he only did drawings, but they had to let him look at the script, I guess he agreed to it all as long as it would agree with his manga or if he just liked the script (i.e. like he said for DB Evolution... I personally think he lied).
Well I don't want to imply anything bad about the guy, but most people place making money above artistic integrity. So if it will sell, the studio makes it.
I felt just about as bad about the movie for that game than I did for DB Evolution facepalmI hope they do it in English and air it here or if they did do it in English I hope I can find it, all I have is Japanese with English subs
Which movie are you talking about?
Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, he knew Frieza was stronger, or else he would have tried to challenge him first. There's a reason he wanted to make himself immortal with the dragonballs. He knew he was no match for Frieza.
I thought he only started looking for them after he first got out of the rejuvenation chamber and beat zarbon, I think Zarbon was the one who let the news out about Friezas transformations too.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
The point is the the scale doesn't make sense so as a predictive algorithm, it's worthless. You can use it to tell that a character with a higher PL will beat one with a low PL, but that's pretty much it. Toriyama himself gave up on using it after the Frieza saga since it was too confusing and inconsistent.
being over 9000 wasn't too impressive when 20 episodes later there is someone over 1,000,000. I guess after that power level jump I would give up too.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Well I don't want to imply anything bad about the guy, but most people place making money above artistic integrity. So if it will sell, the studio makes it.
I paid... I felt betrayed.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Which movie are you talking about?
The Dragon Quest movie which became an automatic Sci-fi channel original. I didn't have high hopes as soon as I heard it would premiere on the sci-fi channel, even worse they allowed The Asylum, to produce it.
-being over 9000 wasn't too impressive when 20 episodes later there is someone over 1,000,000. I guess after that power level jump I would give up too.
-
To be fair, that was around three seasons later.
-I'm not sure how much for the power levels, I just know 5 shouldn't be that much... What would Hercule's power level be
-
I've heard that the strength gauges they used at one point did reflect power level, so 140 iirc (he *is* super strong, just not ki strong).