Carver, if you want to debate me, try responding point - by - point. It's much easier and quote tags are really not that difficult to use.
Originally posted by carver9
He never said going LIGHT SPEED on earth would destroy it, he said going he keeps his speed at a certain PACE so that he wont destroy the area that he is flying over which makes sense.
And the fact that he has gone lightspeed in space but not done it on earth (at least over long distances) is not relevant to this at all?
How about this; read the HP Doomsday arc where Doomsday is on the moon and Superman fly off to the moon to fight Doomsday. Superman ADMITS that space=speed. These are his exact words, "I need to hurry up and get to the moon, due to there being no gravity doomsday can cover the moon in seconds".
I am absolutely sure you are misquoting that because there is gravity on the moon. If anything he just meant that Doomsday could jump higher there, which is irrelevant because we are not gauging Superman's speed by how far he can jump.
What does that sound like to you? By the way, you lied, McDuffie did admit that Superman can only achieve lightspeed in space.
Where? He said that Superman can go FTL by moving through hyperspace. Hyperspace =/= space, if you read or watched science fiction you would understand what the concept of hyperspace means.
So we ignore what was said on panel huh?
You mean the hyperspace thing? Tell me, what do you think "hyperspace" means?
Answer this:Can Superman destroy a planet? Dont say yes because there is no proof that he can.
There's just as much proof that he can as there is that Goku can. Goku has never destroyed any planets, in case you forgot.
He had to achieve light speed in space to destroy something that had the mass of earths moon and it almost killed him.
Read the comic again. He was moving at relativistic speed, which is under lightspeed, in order to build up kinetic energy via relativity (do you understand how the theory of relativity works?) Furthermore, it didn't "almost kill him", you made that up, he was only knocked out, and that was a low showing anyway. The point that it was a construct by Shadow Thief and thus had different properties than normal matter is also evidence against this as a limit. He has done much more impressive feats and survived much more impressive impacts. If I used the same logic you are using against DBZ, I could say something like when androids 16, 17, and 18 were awakened, Trunks hit them with what he said was his most powerful attack, but all it did was destroy the top of a mountain. Therefore SSJ1 Trunks can't destroy more than a mountain. Of course you would scream bloody murder at this accusation since powerscaling from much more impressive feats means that's not really his maximum.
Then we have another instance where it took the entire kryptonian race to move a moon that had the weight of earth moon back into orbit.
First of all, it was Callisto, which is significantly more massive than earth's moon. Second of all, you are being dishonest by ignoring the particular events surrounding that situation, the Kryptonians had used some kind of technology to put a physics - warping forcefield around it, which obviously meant that the amount of physical force used to move it would not be the same, in fact physical force might not have had any effect at all, that's why the Thanagarians needed to use their Nth metal to disrupt the forcefield.
BTW evidence Superman can destroy a planet:
http://yfrog.com/72supermanplanetbusting1j - Says he can
http://i44.tinypic.com/fvjn68.jpg - Says he can again
(I freely admit that statements are not enough to prove it, but you seem to take every DBZ character statement at face value so if you weren't a hypocrite you would take these at face value too)
http://i42.tinypic.com/oj1quc.jpg - Here he is destroying a meteor which could have demolished the earth. If you know basic physics (and you obviously don't, so I'll spell it out for you), that means it would have to be moving fast enough to have enough kinetic energy to destroy the planet. Therefore, when Superman destroyed it, he was overcoming that kinetic energy. In other words, Superman > Meteor > Earth.
In the very same story arc where the incident with the shadow moon occurred (not posting scans since I'm assuming you read it, however I will if you request), Starbreaker had actually pulled the earth out of orbit towards the sun, which takes more energy than simply destroying it. Superman and Hal pulled it back against Starbreaker's power combined with the sun's gravity.
Here we can see him destroying a Kryptonian battleship:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2ii9a9d.jpg
That same battleship was capable of flying through stars unharmed. Here's a hint: If the earth was in the center of a star, it would not survive.
http://i43.tinypic.com/10gaa2c.jpg - Batman believes an alternate Superman (around the same power as the original) when he says he can destroy the planet. Batman is a scientist who knows these things.
I would also point out the time he threatened to destroy the earth to stop several earth elementals, and they believed him (as they embody the forces of the earth itself, they would know). However I don't have those scans on my PC and I don't want to waste any more time digging through the respect thread trying to find them.
How fast is Supermans combat speed? Dont say light since we have no evidence proving this?
Actually we do. When Max Lord controlled Superman, he fought Wonder Woman across the earth and to the sun and back in 1 minute and 54 seconds. Light takes 8 minutes to reach earth from the sun. Of course I can predict your response, you would say he can only do that in space. While he won't actually move lightspeed or faster on earth he can react to things at that speed, here is proof:
http://i40.tinypic.com/4gewj.jpg - Here he is able to not only see the Flash running past him at lightspeed, but recognize that it is Barry along with Wally.
http://i43.tinypic.com/20ijfol.jpg - Here he is able to perceive Swamp Thing's astral form moving at the speed of light. Don't counter by saying he didn't dodge it, after all he didn't expect it to happen at all and it was only inches in front of his face, and like I said, moving faster than light on earth would do too much damage, plus he has gotten faster since then.
Now I present the same challenge to you - How fast is Goku's reaction speed? I'd like to see you actually try to quantify something rather than saying "LOL LOOK HE DODGED THIS KI BLAST WHICH MEANS HE IS SUPER FASTER THAN LIGHT EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW FAST IT WAS MOVING"
Whats the temperature of his heat vision? Again, think about what you say since we cant trust on panel statements (kind of like you are doing with DBZ).
We can if a scientist who is knowledgeable about the subject is basing them on experimental data. As opposed to a random villain bragging that he can destroy the earth/solar system/whatever.
I will be waiting for your answers Mike.The reason I think that Goku combat speed is greater than the people that we debate about is because people like Darkseid, Kalibak, Grundy, Mongul, Titus, Konvikt, people that wouldnt have a DREAM or PRAYER at hitting Goku.
Why? Because you say so? Darkseid is actually faster than Superman on many occasions. As for Grundy, the nature of his power varies every time he is resurrected, sometimes he's weak enough for street level guys to take him on and sometimes he can wreck teams of top tiers. Mongul Jr. actually taught Superman martial arts and high speed fighting techniques. Furthermore, there is a thing called PIS and CIS, meaning he doesn't always speedblitz everyone, although in a bloodlusted vs. forum battle he would. Second of all, you are judging the speed of many of those characters with circular reasoning. Konvikt was owning the JLA, it's safe to say that he is very fast. If the Konvikt fight was drawn with a lot of blurry afterimages like in DBZ, then would you accept he was fast?
I could do the same kind of thing by saying that the Z senshi were owned by androids 17 and 18, even though the two have no notable speed feats and their greatest destructive feats are small cities/mountains. Therefore anyone who can destroy mountains can kick the shit out of Vegeta. You understand that's exactly the same kind of argument you're using, right?
Again, if Picollo who had a powerlevel in the hundreds can destroy a moon, someone who power level is a couple of thousand times higher should be able to rip a planet to shreds but only common sense would know this.
No, that would be wrong as you are simply ignorant of the physics involved. The equation for gravitational binding energy is determined by the mass of a body, its radius, and the gravitational constant, and increases exponentially. The energy required to destroy the earth is around 1800 times that of the energy required to destroy the moon. Furthermore, power levels themselves are an inconsistent system that were dropped by Toriyama after the Frieza saga since they made no sense. They don't scale directly with speed, strength, destructive capacity, or anything.
