Originally posted by Avlon
So let me get this straight...because it's a crossover where you didn't like what happened...it must be ignored, right? I bet had Thor won, you'd be the 1st one with the THOR WON!!! T-shirt.Those who want to be unpaid Marvel employees, feel free. I won't lose any sleep over it.
You can choose to disagree with me. It's fine, but you won't see me going to some fanboyish 10/10 wins for either side in an average scenario. As a guy who's read both titles on the regular (Supes & Surfer stuff) I'm more than happy to give each guy their share of wins.
OH please! You ignored and dodged everything i said in my post. I said that we have to take into account the cricumstances of the fights and how they actually played out. Saying oh well superman beat thor and surfer hasnt so its proof that superman can beat surfer is as asinine as anybody can get. Its even more foolish to use it to say that without surfer exploiting supes weakness, superman wins everytime. Further its not like regular thor has ever even beaten surfer anyway 😱 which makes it even more laughable 😂
Oh and ur opening remark about the thor T-shirt was hardly amusing. 🙁
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Yes surfer did get taken out by it( by surprise) on the physical plane. After that is when he got crucified on the physical plane.. But When on the astral plane, he proved to be untouchable, he wasnt knocked out. He did show great skill on the astral plane in that arc.
Why would Surfer who has encountered the creature two times (before devising a way to best it) not know it was on the astral plane if it is linked to the power cosmic (which he is has unquestionable control of)as its source! The only reasonable conclusion is he is not particularly experienced with this realm. When has the Surfer ever used his astral abilities outside of this arc more than twice? 😬
Firstly, the Avengers/JLA crossover is canon, and Supes win over Thor (however stupid) is also valid. I get tired of people talking about that.
Secondly, what Redlineshifter brought up about the SS/Supes non-canon crossover has no bearing on this fight at all. One, you can't use any non-canon evidence in a forum fight. Two, vs. rules state that all fights take place in a neutral universe, so they wouldn't be fighting in the DC Universe in the first place - thus no problem creating red sunlight radiation, et cetera.
And lastly, during In Thy Name Surfer explicitly states that the Power Cosmic comes from the astral plane and that when fighting there - he is invincible. And considering he doesn't lose while there, no one can say he's lying. Furthermore, when does Norrin Radd ever lie? Never, would be my guess. Which means what he said regarding Gladiator's weakness is perfectly valid. That he chose not to do so is not something to be held against him.
Originally posted by ultimatethor
OH please! You ignored and dodged everything i said in my post. I said that we have to take into account the cricumstances of the fights and how they actually played out. Saying oh well superman beat thor and surfer hasnt so its proof that superman can beat surfer is as asinine as anybody can get. Its even more foolish to use it to say that without surfer exploiting supes weakness, superman wins everytime. Further its not like regular thor has ever even beaten surfer anyway 😱 which makes it even more laughable 😂Oh and ur opening remark about the thor T-shirt was hardly amusing. 🙁
Way to ignore that for the longest in this thread, I've said they can both beat each other.
Instead of trying so hard to be "right" use some common sense and see what my result is.
Originally posted by Redlineshifter
In the Superman/Silver Surfer crossover, it was shown that Norrin's power cosmic doesn't work correctly on things in the DC universe. So it is not a sure thing that he could create kryptonite that would give off the proper radiation.While Superman does absorb solar energy, it is converted before being stored or used. So again, Surfer may not be able to drain his energy.
Obviously, there is evidence to support both sides, which casts reasonable doubt on those arguments. Given that I would see SS best option to be creating red solar energy which is not a guaranteed win.
Surfer still has a power set advantage, but a lot of people underestimate what Superman can do with what he has. This is not a fight that Superman could waltz through and play dumb, but he CAN win.
I say 5/10 split for either.
In that crossover, initially, surfers powers were out of control and not working properly yes, but in the end they DID work properly as he was able to restore metropolis and all those in it to its proper size.
As for the last part, Superman winning depends on how SS fights. If both of them make the best use of their powers acording to what they have been shown to do on panel then it is SS fight to lose.
Originally posted by Enyalus
And lastly, during In Thy Name Surfer explicitly states that the Power Cosmic [b]comes from the astral plane and that when fighting there - he is invincible. And considering he doesn't lose while there, no one can say he's lying. Furthermore, when does Norrin Radd ever lie? Never, would be my guess. [/B]
So why could Norrin not detect the creature immediately or the second time as astral in nature if he is so experienced in said realm? That was my question no need to get upset. There was no emotive language in my question so why should there be in your response. The only thing emotive would be the smilies so here if it makes you happy 🐰
Originally posted by Enyalus
Firstly, the Avengers/JLA crossover is canon, and Supes win over Thor (however stupid) is also valid. I get tired of people talking about that.
👆 Four books and we did end up with a crappy fight. I would have preffered a whole book with a planet busting fight myself.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Secondly, what Redlineshifter brought up about the SS/Supes non-canon crossover has no bearing on this fight at all. One, you can't use any non-canon evidence in a forum fight. Two, vs. rules state that all fights take place in a [b]neutral universe, so they wouldn't be fighting in the DC Universe in the first place - thus no problem creating red sunlight radiation, et cetera.[/B]
You are right about the non-canon evidence BUT what has to be remembered is that people's ideas about what Surfer can do with his power cosmic is no more canon if it hasn't been shown and even more if the tactic isn't in character.
People are quick to whine about speedblitz (which Superman has done on panel) but are quick to claim frequencies that Surfer has never used.
Originally posted by Avlon
Way to ignore that for the longest in this thread, I've said they can both beat each other.Instead of trying so hard to be "right" use some common sense and see what my result is.
What are u even talking about? In my post i just addressed the absolutely laughable ABC logic u tried to use to justify supes beating SS "everytime" as u put it if SS does not exploit his weakness. That was what ur "result" was and that was what i was addressing.
Now u are just dodging and bringing up irrelevant things. 😬
Originally posted by ultimatethor
What are u even talking about? In my post i just addressed the absolutely laughable ABC logic u tried to use to justify supes beating SS "everytime" as u put it if SS does not exploit his weakness. That was what ur "result" was and that was what i was addressing.
Funny, you are quick to jump on that, but I've yet to see you address anyone who's gone Surfer 10/10 wins.
Unpaid Marvel employee.
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Now u are just dodging and bringing up irrelevant things. 😬
What is there to dodge? My rather rather nice way of saying that it could go either way?
How many times do you want to go in circles? Is this something you enjoy?
Originally posted by Decimus
So why could Norrin not detect the creature immediately or the second time as astral in nature if he is so experienced in said realm? That was my question no need to get upset. There was no emotive language in my question so why should there be in your response. The only thing emotive would be the smilies so here if it makes you happy 🐰
I never claimed he was experienced in the aforementioned realm. I also wasn't upset. 😐
Originally posted by Avlon
👆 Four books and we did end up with a crappy fight. I would have preffered a whole book with a planet busting fight myself.
Same here. With something besides Supes catching Thor's magical hammer. Although how badass was it to see a battle-damaged Supes wielding CA's shield and Thor's hammer?
Originally posted by Avlon
People are quick to whine about speedblitz (which Superman has done on panel) but are quick to claim frequencies that Surfer has never used.
Meh, I don't whine about Supes blitzing someone...I might whine about Supes blitzing Surfer, considering that Surfer has much higher traveling speeds and (that I can recall) has never been blitzed by anyone save for The Runner...which is tantamount to Supes being blitzed by Zoom.
He's never used red sun radiation because he hasn't needed to. He's shown on panel telling Gladiator he can simulate the radiation Kallark is weak against. That would be untrue, why? It's within his power set. That he hasn't shown it shouldn't be an issue.
Originally posted by Decimus
Why would Surfer who has encountered the creature two times (before devising a way to best it) not know it was on the astral plane if it is linked to the power cosmic (which he is has unquestionable control of)as its source! The only reasonable conclusion is he is not particularly experienced with this realm. When has the Surfer ever used his astral abilities outside of this arc more than twice? 😬
Ok lets go over this again, someone( not me) brought up surfers good showings on the astral plane during In thy name. You then talked about in thy name and tried to argue that he didnt have a good showing by sighting how the creature defeated him on thephysical plane and how he was crucified which also happened on the physical plane.
And now, You are saying that the arc showed that surfer showed he was not adept at using the astral plane just because he did not instantly know that the creature was linked to it even though in that same arc he proved invincible to the creature? 😕
Originally posted by Enyalus
I never claimed he was experienced in the aforementioned realm. I also wasn't upset. 😐Same here. With something besides Supes catching Thor's magical hammer. Although how badass was it to see a battle-damaged Supes wielding CA's shield and Thor's hammer?[/B]
Well, in that crossover, remember that magic in the Marvel end was nowhere near as powerful as the magic in the DC universe. DC magic gave Wanda quite a powerup even though it was sickening her.
Superman's magic weakness is also highly psychological. Being that pissed at Thor surely made him forget that was a magic hammer. 😉
Originally posted by Enyalus
Meh, I don't whine about Supes blitzing someone...I might whine about Supes blitzing Surfer, considering that Surfer has much higher traveling speeds and (that I can recall) has never been blitzed by anyone save for The Runner...which is tantamount to Supes being blitzed by Zoom.
If you think about it, Lobo has higher traveling speed than Superman too. Supes has still blitzed him though. In all respect to Surfer, there should be crystal clear non traveling speed feats that can't be recreated by humans.
Originally posted by Enyalus
He's never used red sun radiation because he hasn't needed to. He's shown on panel telling Gladiator he can simulate the radiation Kallark is weak against. That would be untrue, why? It's within his power set. That he hasn't shown it shouldn't be an issue.
Because while Surfer can manipulate a lot of energy, he hasn't been shown to create nor manipulate ALL energy. By DC's rules as well, even if you can create kryptonite, if you aren't from the same universe it's useless anyway...and the synthetic stuff packs nowhere near the punch of the real thing.
In the end, it's like debating Macs vs PC's. People will come up with good stuff on both ends and a conclusion will never be reached.
Originally posted by Avlon
Funny, you are quick to jump on that, but I've yet to see you address anyone who's gone Surfer 10/10 wins.Unpaid Marvel employee.
What is there to dodge? My rather rather nice way of saying that it could go either way?
How many times do you want to go in circles? Is this something you enjoy?
Seriously, why would i address them when? Im debating against the superman fans who think he wins not the other way round. I dont think the fight could go either way anyways.
And oh my gosh more blatant dodging. I am not addressing ur view that the fight could go either way. I am addressing the asinine and inane view that
without exploiting supes weakness surfer loses to him everytime based on the fact that superman beat thor in a crossover and some other nonsense. But ur dodging has shown me that u must have realized the wrongness of that statement and hence wud rather not discuss it. Fine by me
Originally posted by shokosugi
but seriously, if Superman bitchslapped Thor, and Thor Bitchslapped SS, why can't Superman bitchslap SS?
Man what are u talking about? The only time thor has ever even defeated SS was when he was in WM madness and had the power gem hence he was far far far above regular thor. So ur logic=BIG FAIL