Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by quanchi112
He can't turn anyone into salt. If one example doesn't work and one example works then it depends on the person doing so to him which is the point. Acting as if Superman can resist it from anyone is pretty disingenuous.

and I don't think people are trying to say no one can transmute Superman, at least I hope not, it looks like they are trying to say it just takes a lot to do it.

and I feel like trying to use the Spectre as an example of showing that Superman can be transmuted is bad in disproving that.

I feel like it's trying to show Superman can get hurt by a nuke by saying he got KOed by a Supernova.

The difference in power level makes the statement mute as to trying to prove that Superman can get hurt by a nuke.

A fully backed Spectre is pretty much able to do anything he wants, so trying to use that as an example in here doesn't really help your case cause the Spectre can do that to insanely high level beings as well, ie look at the Phantom stranger and Spectre turning him into a mouse.

So where does Spectre turning Superman into salt help you prove Surfer can do it is what I'm trying to say.

Originally posted by Newjak
Ok the Spectre can turn people into Salt, and the Spectre can turn JUST about anyone into salt if he was so inclined and properly backed.

and I don't think people are trying to say no one can transmute Superman, at least I hope not, it looks like they are trying to say it just takes a lot to do it.

and I feel like trying to use the Spectre as an example of showing that Superman can be transmuted is bad in disproving that.

I feel like it's trying to show Superman can get hurt by a nuke by saying he got KOed by a Supernova.

The difference in power level makes the statement mute as to trying to prove that Superman can get hurt by a nuke.

A fully backed Spectre is pretty much able to do anything he wants, so trying to use that as an example in here doesn't really help your case cause the Spectre can do that to insanely high level beings as well, ie look at the Phantom stranger and Spectre turning him into a mouse.

So where does Spectre turning Superman into salt help you prove Surfer can do it is what I'm trying to say.

Spectre wasn't fully backed either he just had Asmodel as his host which spelled trouble for the entire universe.

Phantom Stranger wasn't able to be killed by the Spectre so the guy clearly has limits. I am not very impressed by the Ps anyway he seems to be mostly hype with little to nothing to back it up in terms of combat feats.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't think he can. You can believe that but my point is Superman can't resist transmutation from any and all challengers.

Spectre wasn't fully backed either he just had Asmodel as his host which spelled trouble for the entire universe.

Phantom Stranger wasn't able to be killed by the Spectre so the guy clearly has limits. I am not very impressed by the Ps anyway he seems to be mostly hype with little to nothing to back it up in terms of combat feats.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't think he can. You can believe that but my point is Superman can't resist transmutation from any and all challengers.

Spectre wasn't fully backed either he just had Asmodel as his host which spelled trouble for the entire universe.

Phantom Stranger wasn't able to be killed by the Spectre so the guy clearly has limits. I am not very impressed by the Ps anyway he seems to be mostly hype with little to nothing to back it up in terms of combat feats.

Silver Surfer

How does it help your argument in the slightest that Spectre can transmute Superman? What does it prove in this debate?

Even when not fully backed he can be extremely powerful.

Originally posted by country1000
LOL, WOW, you think NOTHING works on superman dont you?? Let me ask you this. Can Classic beyonder turn superman into a mule?

Originally posted by Newjak
So Spectre can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinite power then

Silver Surfer

How does it help your argument in the slightest that Spectre can transmute Superman? What does it prove in this debate?

Even when not fully backed he can be extremely powerful.

You posted before you understood what my post actually meant. Abhi will use one showing to define Superman so I used another. I don't think either define him or it's as easy as saying he can or can't be transmuted. I don't 'think Surfer does so in this thread it's out of character for him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't think so the Spectre seemed to be very taxed against just skyfather beings.

You posted before you understood what my post actually meant. Abhi will use one showing to define Superman so I used another. I don't think either define him or it's as easy as saying he can or can't be transmuted. I don't 'think Surfer does so in this thread it's out of character for him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What one showing? So you ARE drunk.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, all are canon so to act like he can't ever be transmuted is well being dishonest. I know you are selective in what counts and doesn't but don't act like the rest of the world has to be.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, all are canon so to act like he can't ever be transmuted is well being dishonest. I know you are selective in what counts and doesn't but don't act like the rest of the world has to be.

😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't think so the Spectre seemed to be very taxed against just skyfather beings.

You posted before you understood what my post actually meant. Abhi will use one showing to define Superman so I used another. I don't think either define him or it's as easy as saying he can or can't be transmuted. I don't 'think Surfer does so in this thread it's out of character for him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You are drunk quan. Where did I say that he can't be transmuted? When you see someone close to surfer level power transmute superman, call me.

But just like Superman can resist skyfather's trying to do something to him, Surfer has also effected Energies that that go beyond simple herald level. Look at the Crunch energies he used to destroy T&A. Those were powers that even Galactus said would destroy him over time.

So to sit there and say show me someone on Surfer's level transmuting Superman is nonesense, because honestly there's a reason these guy's are high herald, cause they generally go past the level you associate with them when they need especially in one category or another. I mean... What is Surfer level transmutation? What are his limits? I mean would the reverse also be valid, show me someone on Superman's level resisting Surfer's transmutation? No it wouldn't because Superman's level can change and go past high herald, just like Surfer's manipulation feats do the same.

Like superman and strength and durability, Flash and speed, Thor, and power output, Surfer is the same way with energy manipulation and transmutation.

Originally posted by Newjak
His power fluctuates, which is another reason he is terrible to use as proof, you never know what level of power he is acting on, cause he has also made Skyfather's run for their lives. The point is just because Spectre transmutes Superman, doesn't equate that Surfer can do it.

This also an unfair statement to make, cause it makes it sound like no on 'Surfer's' level could effect Superman unless you specifically show someone in the high herald level doing it.

But just like Superman can resist skyfather's trying to do something to him, Surfer has also effected Energies that that go beyond simple herald level. Look at the Crunch energies he used to destroy T&A. Those were powers that even Galactus said would destroy him over time.

So to sit there and say show me someone on Surfer's level transmuting Superman is nonesense, because honestly there's a reason these guy's are high herald, cause they generally go past the level you associate with them when they need especially in one category or another. I mean... What is Surfer level transmutation? What are his limits? I mean would the reverse also be valid, show me someone on Superman's level resisting Surfer's transmutation? No it wouldn't because Superman's level can change and go past high herald, just like Surfer's manipulation feats do the same.

Like superman and strength and durability, Flash and speed, Thor, and power output, Surfer is the same way with energy manipulation and transmutation.

Matter Manipulation requires energy manipulation, unless you are talking reality warping. Changing the atoms from one type to another needs energy manipulation.

What are some of Surfer's low end transmutation feats that you are stating?

I can give you some of his better ones, like evolving an entire planet. Changing all the ships on a planet to be able to have the power to get off the planet Galactus was consuming.

And I'm not saying throw out Superman's good showings but honestly you want to act like Surfer can't do it because Superman resisted a Skyfather. Yes that's a good showing, but does not indicate that Surfer couldn't do it, or at the very least make Superman have to work not to get changed.

My point you can't flat out say Surfer can't do it considering what he has done with Matter Manip, just like I'm not going to say Surfer can flat out do it because of what Superman has shown resisting it.

And don't try to act like Superman could just shrug it off because Surfer is only Surfer level.

That statement can be used for so many wrong trains of thought.

Like obviously no one on Superman's level could resist an attack from thor cause of what Thor has done to Abstract level beings.

Or anyone on a Green Lantern's level would not be able to contend with Surfer's energy manipulation.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You are drunk quan. Where did I say that he can't be transmuted? When you see someone close to surfer level power transmute superman, call me.

Lay off the pain meds.

Originally posted by Newjak
His power fluctuates, which is another reason he is terrible to use as proof, you never know what level of power he is acting on, cause he has also made Skyfather's run for their lives. The point is just because Spectre transmutes Superman, doesn't equate that Surfer can do it.

This also an unfair statement to make, cause it makes it sound like no on 'Surfer's' level could effect Superman unless you specifically show someone in the high herald level doing it.

But just like Superman can resist skyfather's trying to do something to him, Surfer has also effected Energies that that go beyond simple herald level. Look at the Crunch energies he used to destroy T&A. Those were powers that even Galactus said would destroy him over time.

So to sit there and say show me someone on Surfer's level transmuting Superman is nonesense, because honestly there's a reason these guy's are high herald, cause they generally go past the level you associate with them when they need especially in one category or another. I mean... What is Surfer level transmutation? What are his limits? I mean would the reverse also be valid, show me someone on Superman's level resisting Surfer's transmutation? No it wouldn't because Superman's level can change and go past high herald, just like Surfer's manipulation feats do the same.

Like superman and strength and durability, Flash and speed, Thor, and power output, Surfer is the same way with energy manipulation and transmutation.

Originally posted by Newjak
Matter Manipulation requires energy manipulation, unless you are talking reality warping. Changing the atoms from one type to another needs energy manipulation.

What are some of Surfer's low end transmutation feats that you are stating?

I can give you some of his better ones, like evolving an entire planet. Changing all the ships on a planet to be able to have the power to get off the planet Galactus was consuming.

And I'm not saying throw out Superman's good showings but honestly you want to act like Surfer can't do it because Superman resisted a Skyfather. Yes that's a good showing, but does not indicate that Surfer couldn't do it, or at the very least make Superman have to work not to get changed.

My point you can't flat out say Surfer can't do it considering what he has done with Matter Manip, just like I'm not going to say Surfer can flat out do it because of what Superman has shown resisting it.

And don't try to act like Superman could just shrug it off because Surfer is only Surfer level.

That statement can be used for so many wrong trains of thought.

Like obviously no one on Superman's level could resist an attack from thor cause of what Thor has done to Abstract level beings.

Or anyone on a Green Lantern's level would not be able to contend with Surfer's energy manipulation.

Lol

Originally posted by quanchi112
You used one showing as a basis which isn't how we do it. We look at the complete body of work.

Lay off the pain meds. I never claimed it did. I never once argued Surfer transmutes Superman I just want to expose abhi every chance I get for selecting which showings apply and which don't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's just a theory, do you have any on-panel explanation of this because there are characters who can only manipulate matter or only manipulate energy.
Needing to amp himself to stablize a sun while his full power was having minimal effect, nearly going mad by absorbing a portion of sun, failing to absorb ego's energies while quasar succeeded. While its true that surfer has some insane feats, he doesn't always works at that level. Wasn't that planet evolved because surfer's powers were out of control and even he couldn't stop them? That's good. I can accept that route but taking in the surfer's character traits and superman's already impressive showings against transmutation, its very unlikely that transmutation is going to play any part in this fight.

And I'm fine stating that transmutation will not be the deciding factor in this match, but if Surfer used it I could see Superman being slowed down because of it and not just shrugging it off.

Originally posted by Newjak
So mostly regarding suns? Well it's not like those things are small or makes someone weak because they had trouble with them.

And I'm fine stating that transmutation will not be the deciding factor in this match, but if Surfer used it I could see Superman being slowed down because of it and not just shrugging it off.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Lay off the pain meds. I never claimed it did. I never once argued Surfer transmutes Superman I just want to expose abhi every chance I get for selecting which showings apply and which don't.

Quan, you're as bad as he or anyone else on this board, so I suggest you quit while you're ahead, and stop making stupid claims.