Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by darthgoober
So you can "win" a debate if you get to ignore the rules of the debate while insisting that the opposition instead abide by the rules that YOU set down ... big accomplishment 😆 And actually that's flat out untrue because "Only combat feats are valid" IS an arbitrary rule...

Of course not, that's why their crossover is one of the only in existence that didn't have the heroes in question actually fighting it out. Even DC was like... nah better not...

I will however concede that Supes would put up a much better fight in the comics than he would in a forum fight though.

Even when the comic says that WW has better reflexes than Supes?

Of course I can, and I don't need to restrict the feats usable by all before the debate even begins unless the restrictions are intricall to the discussion at hand.

Yup goes for both characters, and Surfer definitely has his share of low showings.

You are... well now we're getting somewhere. What about judges, I'd suggest a panel of 5 rather than 3 since we're talking about such a monumental topic. I was thinking Digi, Newjack, leonidas, Galan, and Scoobless cause they're all pro debaters who're familiar with the forum rules, familiar with debating concepts like logical fallicies, able to separate a debate they're following from their own personal opinions, and not overly invested in either character.

And again, why would I argue a point that I already conceded 😂

Are you phucking kidding me? Goober is here? I haven't seen you in ages. Welcome back DB. How have you been?

I can be a judge.
1. I like Superman
2. I think Surfer wins a slight majority despite 1
3. I'm a fan of Goober

That would make me an unbiased judge wouldn't it?

Originally posted by darthgoober

Even when the comic says that WW has better reflexes than Supes?

Are you talking about Batman basically compared Superman to a world class sprinter, and Wonder Woman to Bruce Lee when asked who he thought was faster?

The way I hear it, the writer actually made that story just to mess with a bunch of guys on a message board, after they had an argument over it..

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who the **** cares about polls?

lmao, how about the board members who vote in them? The same posters who's opinions you are seeking now. Think before posting. And in case you forgot, you hijacked a poll thead you dick wad.

Originally posted by h1a8
I can be a judge.
1. I like Superman
2. I think Surfer wins a slight majority despite 1
3. I'm a fan of Goober

That would make me an unbiased judge wouldn't it?

Originally posted by cdtm
Are you talking about Batman basically compared Superman to a world class sprinter, and Wonder Woman to Bruce Lee when asked who he thought was faster?

The way I hear it, the writer actually made that story just to mess with a bunch of guys on a message board, after they had an argument over it..

😂

No, McDuffie did actually do it for petty reasons.

Using that comic to argue that Diana is definitively quicker than Superman is a poor starting point.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, McDuffie did actually do it for petty reasons.

Using that comic to argue that Diana is definitively quicker than Superman is a poor starting point.

What petty reasons ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
It is a fair point people can disagree with but saying he wrote it to mess with battle boarders is only speculation.

What petty reasons ?

Petty reasons = he did it to mess with battle boarders.

He actually did that. He had an opinion, fans didn't like it, so he put it in a comic.

It's not that his opinion is invalid, it's that he had to be a whiny ***** about it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Petty reasons = he did it to mess with battle boarders.

He actually did that. He had an opinion, fans didn't like it, so he put it in a comic.

It's not that his opinion is invalid, it's that he had to be a whiny ***** about it.

Even if a writer out something in to irk battle boarders that doesn't make it any less canon. To me it seems obvious Pak write heart of the monster Hulk's portrayal with battle boarders in mind.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Where is this alluded to ?

Even if a writer out something in to irk battle boarders that doesn't make it any less canon. To me it seems obvious Pak write heart of the monster Hulk's portrayal with battle boarders in mind.

On his old forums, iirc.

It doesn't make it any less canon, no. The problem becomes when people find one showing/statement they really, really like, and use it to dismiss all dissenting ones, which people do with this one. It also devalues the showing when you know the intent behind it.

Spider-Man beating Firelord is also canon, iirc, but nobody takes THAT seriously.

The funny thing is, McDuffie himself also said that Superman would beat Diana in a fight 8-9 times out of 10, iirc, so people using his statements are on thin ice as it is.

Originally posted by -Pr-

Spider-Man beating Firelord is also canon, iirc, but nobody takes THAT seriously.

You didn't see some of the Spidey vs threads a few months back, did you. Spidey beating Firelord was totally being referenced as serious debating material. 😱

Originally posted by -Pr-
On his old forums, iirc.

It doesn't make it any less canon, no. The problem becomes when people find one showing/statement they really, really like, and use it to dismiss all dissenting ones, which people do with this one. It also devalues the showing when you know the intent behind it.

Spider-Man beating Firelord is also canon, iirc, but nobody takes THAT seriously.

The funny thing is, McDuffie himself also said that Superman would beat Diana in a fight 8-9 times out of 10, iirc, so people using his statements are on thin ice as it is.

I tend to just use their comic feats and their opinions only with their work so a theoretical who wins isn't fair game but their opinion on what they thought happens in a scene they penned is fair game.

Originally posted by quanchi112
People usually tend to exaggerate evidence that points to their favor as opposed to evidence that is contrary to their conclusions. I never personally read Spider-Man beat fire lord and think there is probably context to it people are leaving out.

I've read it. There's no context.

Spidey spends the entire issue running from Firelord, eventually gets cornered, freaks out about it and blitzes him into unconsciousness.

Originally posted by quanchi112
People usually tend to exaggerate evidence that points to their favor as opposed to evidence that is contrary to their conclusions. I never personally read Spider-Man beat fire lord and think there is probably context to it people are leaving out. Spider-Man also ko'd the Hulk but you won't hear any majority argue Spider-Man beats Hulk.

I tend to just use their comic feats and their opinions only with their work so a theoretical who wins isn't fair game but their opinion on what they thought happens in a scene they penned is fair game.

Well, obviously. The scene happened. In a canon comics. So it's canon that said analogy, as stupid an analogy as it is, was used. Context matters, though.

It's a low showing for Batman either way.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So you can "win" a debate if you get to ignore the rules of the debate while insisting that the opposition instead abide by the rules that YOU set down ... big accomplishment And actually that's flat out untrue because "Only combat feats are valid" IS an arbitrary rule...

No, I win in both instances. By KMC rules and by comics. And I didn't set any rules, I just said we only debate using comics and what actually happened in the comics.

That's apparently too much for any surfer fan.

Of course not, that's why their crossover is one of the only in existence that didn't have the heroes in question actually fighting it out. Even DC was like... nah better not...

We can always go by Cyborg Superman laughing off Surfer's power if you want.

I will however concede that Supes would put up a much better fight in the comics than he would in a forum fight though.

And again, why would I argue a point that I already conceded

Because you didn't concede? If you concede that Superman will beat Surfer going by comics, then we can settle it. Otherwise you're just BSing your way out of it.

Real chicken you are.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Why perpetuate such a vicious cycle? "Surfer wins because "X"", "Bullshit Supes wins because of "Y", "No Surfer wins", "No Supes wins"... We both know you'd never concede the point regardless of what was posted(and in all honestly, I likely wouldn't either in the heat of the moment). That's the beauty of the BZ... the better argument is acknowledged by the judges regardless of how stubborn the debaters are.

Simple as that.

Oh lawd... Are you seriously picking a fight with Goober?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Well, obviously. The scene happened. In a canon comics. So it's canon that said analogy, as stupid an analogy as it is, was used. Context matters, though.

It's a low showing for Batman either way.

I don't look at any showings as low or high as that implies personal opinion. I only view canon as facts.

Originally posted by One-Punch
You should ask abhi why Doctor Polaris was able drain/weaken Superman so easily, and he's no where near a Sun-Eater. He's basically DC's version of magneto lol.

If Polaris ever drained Superman, that might be true.

But if Polaris is such a weak energy manipulator, I'd like to see surfer bending light away like him against a specific person.

Should be easy for you.

We've seen an extremely blood-lusted Superman fight Wonder Woman. He didn't erase her from existence in a pico-second, like abhi would have you believe. She held her own long enough to break his mind-control.

Non bloodlusted Superman oneshotted her in Final Crisis.