Well anyway in second thoughts I think what people are saying is right. Yes you can argue that Superman has Batman beat in every area and doesnt need Batman for anything. I think the same could apply to Flash and MM possibly.
The whole problem with the argeument is that there seem to be a signifcant number of characters including Batman who the other heroes dont need. If we are going to say Batman is not needed what about the others as well?
Originally posted by AlfheimSpectre will punish the guilty and murderous when he catches up with them anyways, so why have heros at all? He makes them all pointless.
Well anyway in second thoughts I think what people are saying is right. Yes you can argue that Superman has Batman beat in every area and doesnt need Batman for anything. I think the same could apply to Flash and MM possibly.The whole problem with the argeument is that there seem to be a signifcant number of characters including Batman who the other heroes dont need. If we are going to say Batman is not needed what about the others as well?
The pont is, the JLA often enough run into situations they value Batman's membership for. Yes, a story has to be created for this, but it isn't any more of a writer crutch for a Batman than it is for any of them having a similar situation where he contribues. Batman isn't redundant to the team and there's a multitude of issues to prove it.
It's laughable at best you're thinking Batman is redundant while trying to rationize to us why Captain America hanging out with guys like Thor, Hulk, Ironman, Hercules and others because he can contribute something as redundant as slowing someone down until a big hitter comes. Batman brings far more to his team, with his intelligence, deductive abilities, leadership ability, planning, resources and technology.
Originally posted by Juntai
Spectre will punish the guilty and murderous when he catches up with them anyways, so why have heros at all? He makes them all pointless.
/sarcasmThe pont is, the JLA often enough run into situations they value Batman's membership for. Yes, a story has to be created for this, but it isn't any more of a writer crutch for a Batman than it is for any of them having a similar situation where he contribues. Batman isn't redundant to the team and there's a multitude of issues to prove it.
It's laughable at best you're thinking Batman is redundant while trying to rationize to us why Captain America hanging out with guys like Thor, Hulk, Ironman, Hercules and others because he can contribute something as redundant as slowing someone down until a big hitter comes. Batman brings far more to his team, with his intelligence, deductive abilities, leadership ability, planning, resources and technology.
Didnt I just say you guys were right? I also explained why you guys were right. It just doesnt just apply to Batman but it applies to other characters as well, some characters may have superhuman strength and speed but batmans resources and intelligence could make him more useful. Therefore Batman being redundant also appiles to other members of the JLA.
My point about Cap was that eventhough people like Thor and Hercules maybe more powerful than him there not so powerful that they make Cap redundant. If Cap foguht Hercules he could at least make it diffult for him to hit and maybe use the environment to beat him if Batman fought Superman he would just be squased and Superman beats Bats in every aspect not just strength and speed but intelligence as well, but the point has been made that this can apply to the other JLA members to.
Alfheim wrote on Oct 24th, 2007 09:21 AM:
Im sorry I think those insults were unjustified.
I might have been a little too harsh, and appologize for that, but I meant what I was saying then, and won't take it back as far as the content. I just got annoyed how I felt your arguement had no point, and was so generalised a complaint that it could to any character in any situation, but you aimed this thread directly at Batman and Superman. Which is why myself and others felt it was some kind of thread to slander them. We tried to give you examples of Batman proving his usefulness in context when we discussed storyarcs. But you pressed on anyways, ignoring the proof, and drug this out for several pages on why you felt Batman was only cool because they write him cool, and useless if they didn't... And if a threat powerful enough to smack up Thor, Ironman, Hulk and Hercules, that Cap can save the day with his superpowers and kung fu and how that is more useful than Batman he is.
Originally posted by Juntai
I might have been a little too harsh, and appologize for that, but I meant what I was saying then, and won't take it back as far as the content.
Sorry I was going to reply to this but I had to shoot down to the shops. To be fair its not like you dont have a point.
Originally posted by Juntai
I just got annoyed how I felt your arguement had no point, and was so generalised a complaint that it could to any character in any situation, but you aimed this thread directly at Batman and Superman. Which is why myself and others felt it was some kind of thread to slander them.
Well look if you want to say I need to read more JLA, correct. As I stated from the begiining I was no DC expert and admitted to being ignorant. If you want to say that Superman doesnt just make Batman redundant others as well but there was no justification for telling me that I was doing it to spite Batman you dont know me personally, I provided evidence and if your prefectly honest its makes no sense to say that I wanted to spite Superman. The whole reason why I wanted you to adress these points is because you attacked me personally and I wnted to deal with these points before dealing with the others. I would have gone onto say that I dindt know Superman gave him the ring. I also felt that I at least had some good points but they were not being adressed and I felt that the accusations of spite where a manifestation of this.
Originally posted by Juntai
Which is why myself and others felt it was some kind of thread to slander them. We tried to give you examples of Batman proving his usefulness in context when we discussed storyarcs. But you pressed on anyways, ignoring the proof, and drug this out for several pages on why you felt Batman was only cool because they write him cool, and useless if they didn'
Well this is where my argument has flaw. If Superman is going to make Batman redundant that could go for the others but whats getting me is that it still doesnt make any sense to me how Batman can be more intelligent than Superman I admitted that I had not read the stories but there was no explanation given. Yes this could apply to other members but the fact still seems to be that Superman does make Batman redundant and not just Superman. It seems to me that also if you gave the Flash Batmans resources he would do much more with it but this is becoming evident that this not the case with all characters.
Originally posted by Juntai
... And if a threat powerful enough to smack up Thor, Ironman, Hulk and Hercules, that Cap can save the day with his superpowers and kung fu and how that is more useful than Batman he is.
No I think this is a different kettle of fish. I got the impression that in the Batman respect thread there was an implication thats lots of superheroes wpould beat Batman if he didnt prep, this is not the case with Cap of course there are members that could beat Cap but you could list quite a few Avengers that Cap could either beat or at least give them trouble as I stated Cap may not be able to KO Hercules but he could at least dodge his punches for along while could Batman do that with supes, flash, mm or aquaman?
One of the points I was making if you have a villain which has Supermans powerset or Flashes powerset theres seem to be no way in which you Batman would be useful. Ok I need to read the JLA but an explanation would be cool. Yes I did not read the incident where the white martians where beating up the JLA but somebody who had read the story stated that if Batman had actually tried to fight he would have got stomped and this kinda upset me because you rarely see incident in the Avengers were Cap acnnot contribute to a fight even with powerful members.
Originally posted by willRules
why what happened? 😕I know during Infinite Crisis, Earth 2 Superman fired his heat vision at it when Batsy was wearing it. Did he destroy it?
Yes, however it hasn't been clear by DC whether Clark ever gave Bruce another ring. So if Supes goes rampage....Batman won't stop him.
(yeah, I know it sounds pretty ironic)
Originally posted by Alfheim
Sorry I was going to reply to this but I had to shoot down to the shops. To be fair its not like you dont have a point.Well look if you want to say I need to read more JLA, correct. As I stated from the begiining I was no DC expert and admitted to being ignorant. If you want to say that Superman doesnt just make Batman redundant others as well but there was no justification for telling me that I was doing it to spite Batman you dont know me personally, I provided evidence and if your prefectly honest its makes no sense to say that I wanted to spite Superman. The whole reason why I wanted you to adress these points is because you attacked me personally and I wnted to deal with these points before dealing with the others. I would have gone onto say that I dindt know Superman gave him the ring. I also felt that I at least had some good points but they were not being adressed and I felt that the accusations of spite where a manifestation of this.
Well this is where my argument has flaw. If Superman is going to make Batman redundant that could go for the others but whats getting me is that it still doesnt make any sense to me how Batman can be more intelligent than Superman I admitted that I had not read the stories but there was no explanation given. Yes this could apply to other members but the fact still seems to be that Superman does make Batman redundant and not just Superman. It seems to me that also if you gave the Flash Batmans resources he would do much more with it but this is becoming evident that this not the case with all characters.
No I think this is a different kettle of fish. I got the impression that in the Batman respect thread there was an implication thats lots of superheroes wpould beat Batman if he didnt prep, this is not the case with Cap of course there are members that could beat Cap but you could list quite a few Avengers that Cap could either beat or at least give them trouble as I stated Cap may not be able to KO Hercules but he could at least dodge his punches for along while could Batman do that with supes, flash, mm or aquaman?
One of the points I was making if you have a villain which has Supermans powerset or Flashes powerset theres seem to be no way in which you Batman would be useful. Ok I need to read the JLA but an explanation would be cool. Yes I did not read the incident where the white martians where beating up the JLA but somebody who had read the story stated that if Batman had actually tried to fight he would have got stomped and this kinda upset me because you rarely see incident in the Avengers were Cap acnnot contribute to a fight even with powerful members.
WTF Bats takes Cap.
Originally posted by Switch 07
WTF Bats takes Cap.
He could do, but im not talking about Batman in Marvel im talking about Batman in DC, Batman taking DC heroes out without prep. The point I was trying to make is that Cap in marvel is different, yeah you can argue that Bats intelligence is useful but Cap in marvel can also beat up quite a few Avengers or give them trouble without prep. Yes at the end of the day I could be wrong and feel free to correct me.
Originally posted by AlfheimIt's a comic so get over it. duriroll
Dont get me wrong I like characters like Batman, NightWing and Mister Terrific its nice to see humans taking on superhumans. Im not an expert on DC but really it seems like a load of PIS. In DC you seem to have characters that are considrebaly more powerful than Marvel for example Superman isnt just ****ing strong hes really fast as well. People like Cap can take on bricks, even if he cant KO them he can dodge their blows distract the opponent and leave the brick open so somebody like Thor can take him out. Why do the JLA need Batman anyway?Prep? Wait a minute doest superman have superhuman intelligence cant he for example read and memorise lots of information in a very short time (correct me if im wrong). If he can do that couldnt he then think of loads of scenerios that Batman could think of before Batman preps him. Does Superman have the fortress of solitude and does he have access to its tech?
Why are people saying that Batman has dodged Supermans punches without mentioning prep when Superman has clearly shown that hes is much faster then him? Whats the point in having Nighwing when you have the Flash?
I dont even understand how Batman was able to go H2H with current KK without prep. Didnt KK punch a guy who weighed a hundred tons through a wall? So how does Batman block his punches without a protected suit? Even the current KK has shown he has much more skill than Batman how the hell did he manage to go H2H with him....prep or PIS?
In short Batman does not seem to be any KK or Mantis but some people on this forum seem to be portraying him like that it also seems to me realistcaly in Gotham Batman is king but soon as hes with the JLA theres no point in him being there.
You have an opinion and that's fine but don't try to make other people "see" things your way so you can feel good. It's not the forum's job to prove your opinion right or wrong. Complaining about a non-powered character is ass-clownery when you consider that the powered characters: can fly, breathe under water, manipulate energy/matter, use magic, cling to walls, create/manipulate weather, turn big, strong and green, are on fire, have power rings, become living metal, shoot energy beams from their eyes, stretch like elastic, move FTL, etc. The fact is your argument and logic is as senseless as comics. If you don't like a comic then don't read it. Cripes, if everybody had a hissy fit over what occurs in a comic then the Comics Section would be nothing but a crybaby emo fest. durcry2
Originally posted by Switch 07
If Cap can beat them then so can Bats.
Thats true and im not arguing against that.
Originally posted by Switch 07
Maybe on the JLA team he might not be the best
I get the impression cap would get stomped in DC world as well
Originally posted by Switch 07
but if Cap were there he would be even less useful
Well I think hes at least as smart as Bats in terms of strategy but not rescources. Well I think Cap could be compared to DS and DS can give superheroes in DC grief. Argh **** I cant say for sure but DC characters seem to be really really ****ing powerful some of them have got insane power feats.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats true and im not arguing against that.I get the impression cap would get stomped in DC world as well
Well I think hes at least as smart as Bats in terms of strategy but not rescources. Well I think Cap could be compared to DS and DS can give superheroes in DC grief. Argh **** I cant say for sure but DC characters seem to be really really ****ing powerful some of them have got insane power feats.
Not as smart as Bats no but better leader.
Apart from that it was: 👆.
Originally posted by Badabing
It's a comic so get over it. durirollYou have an opinion and that's fine
but don't try to make other people "see" things your way so you can feel good.
It's not the forum's job to prove your opinion right or wrong. Complaining about a non-powered character is ass-clownery when you consider that the powered characters: can fly, breathe under water, manipulate energy/matter, use magic, cling to walls, create/manipulate weather, turn big, strong and green, are on fire, have power rings, become living metal, shoot energy beams from their eyes, stretch like elastic, move FTL, etc. The fact is your argument and logic is as senseless as comics. If you don't like a comic then don't read it.
Cripes, if everybody had a hissy fit over what occurs in a comic then the Comics Section would be nothing but a crybaby emo fest. durcry2
Like you said.
Originally posted by Badabing
You have an opinion and that's fine
Originally posted by Badabing
but don't try to make other people "see" things your way so you can feel good.
Its a discussion forum, thats what im doing. Nothing wrong with what im doing at all im not calling anybody names or insulting them.
Originally posted by Badabing
Cripes, if everybody had a hissy fit over what occurs in a comic then the Comics Section would be nothing but a crybaby emo fest. durcry2
Um im not, your assuming I am. 😐 Like you said
Originally posted by Badabing
You have an opinion and that's fine