Classic Defenders Vs Classic Avengers

Originally posted by Accel
No, it’s not a popularity contest. It’s a forum filled with individuals who are far more knowledgeable in comics than you are. Ask any one and they’ll gladly point out to you why Surfer being in the same ranking as Spider-Man alone proves the fallacy of using that rating as proof of any thing.

-His so-called physical might if you will…

-A populem argument, how pathetic. Your knowledge and my knowledge of comics are on the line here. If you think that by have ing someone else post their opinion will help you case, your just comiiting another logic fallacy.

-Your using one comic to try to refute his entire career. 😱

Originally posted by Accel

Except you continually forget three important factors:

1.)Lifting Hulk off the ground and spinning him around doesn’t weaken him in any way, nor does it mean any one else’s attacks will all of a sudden hurt him a lot more than they previously would have.
2.)Hulk won’t weakening from Iron Man’s attacks because of his healing factor.
3.)Hulk will undoubtedly get more pissed off, thus getting stronger, more durable, more damage resistant, and more likely to take Tony out with a thunderclap.

Oh, the Irony:

1) Wait, Wait, you mean like how a plane explosion does not weaken his durability? It's funny that your pointing out his durability being the same in that instance, but not in his fight with Iron Man.

2) His healing factor depends on his anger. Besides, His healing factor back then is not comaparble to how it is now nor has it stopped him from being K.O.ed.

Originally posted by Accel

-No, common sense does.

-I don’t need to prove any thing.

-You’re claiming that Iron Man could restrict Hulk’s limbs are based on what, the fact that he could lift him up using the iron in his blood and spin him around?

Nothing about that exactly screams “Master of Magnetism.”

-Which you haven't even demonstrated.

-Yes, you do, your claiming he was not restricted then the burden of proof is on you. Hulk was trying to escape, he did not. . .end. He subdued until rick jones came, So, Iron Man was effective in this fight. Since he was able to hold Hulk when no one else in the avengers could not, until Thor came.

-I'm basing it on common sense, if hulk was trying to escape and did not. What does that mean, must I spell it out for you?

Originally posted by Accel

-On one knee, but totally unharmed. Yeah, I bet Hulk was shaking in his shorts right there.

-No, the fact that he himself admits that his attack is ineffective… proves it’s ineffective.

-He was one knee, I wonder how he got there?
He's unharmed, based on what exactly? Again, no proof on your part.
Hulk was standing, he got punch, and is on one knee. Why is that, because he's tying his shoes?

-Iron Man was commenting on how that punch did not stop the Hulk. Since he was able to retaliate, however he manage to put him on he's knee's. Who else has down that besides Class 100 ranked individuals?

Originally posted by Accel

-And yet it still seems to be a recurring pattern throughout their history.

I don’t care that you don’t care. It changes nothing.

It’s just yet another example of how Tony’s attacks don’t phase Hulk in the slightest.

-Doesn't matter, that's not Hulk. Regular Hulk has never done that to Classic Iron Man.

-If you don't care what I think, why are you debating me?
Are you that full of spite?

Originally posted by Accel

Iron Man- “Yes, I managed to actually move the Hulk a few inches back! Bring on the Juggernaut!”

Inches? 😆

More like several feet.

Originally posted by Accel

-Well, if you want a shitload of scans, you’re more than welcome to visit his respect thread, ‘cause I’m not going through the trouble of bringing it to you.

-And before you start bitching to me about how the respect thread only has ridiculously high-end feats, you also have to take 3 things into consideration:

1.)that you need to learn to differentiate between ridiculously high-end feats (i.e. Hulk withstand an attack that ripped apart a cosmos) and the tamer high-end feats (i.e. Hulk taking a nuclear detonation unharmed).
2.)that that it also contains more of these high-end feats than you can possibly think of for his low end feats
3.)since you love averaging feats together so much, you should have no problems averaging out low-end instances like Hulk being taken out by a bomb and a snake with redciously high-end instances like Hulk withstanding a cosmos and being charged through an asteroid 2X the size of Earth completely unharmed.
The rest, like Hulk consistently taking massive explosion and not being dazed should be more acceptable to you then.

-I read his respect Thread before several times. Why should I tread through a bunch of irrelevant scans just to prove your point? You made the claim that he has a shit load of high end durability feats that out way his low ends. I'm still waiting, because it seems that you feel your above everything. Logic, evidence, and commonsense. . .It's like talking to kid.

1) Except that with the Hulk, both should be possible since he has variable strength. 😬

2) No, it doesn't, and if your claiming it does P-R-O-V-E-I-T

3) I average it out, because that is how we debate.

Originally posted by Accel

-Irrelevant. Apparently the Wrecking Crew was also able to easily subdue Dr. Strange in that same issue.
-Except Samson only did so when Hulk thought he was an illusion and wasn;t even thinking about fighting, so Samson managed to cheapshot him. If you take those instances into consideration, Hulk’s done the same to both Thor and Surfer.
-Cap hurts every body. We’re talking about the guy who briefly knocked around King Thor using nothing but the power of patriotism, Son.

-Wrecking crew sucks, if you have evidence they are stronger than Iron-Man. Please show it, because I find it funny that your hyping them up to be stronger then: Hulk and Strange. Just to prove they are stronger than Iron Man? Thor his soloed them, and it took all of them to beat a drunk hercules. . .

- So, what, if samson could knock Hulk on his back (Savage Hulk at that) Iron Man cannot? Iron Man has beaten Thor with out cheap shotting him, can't say the same about the Hulk now can I. He's also given surfer problem, but so has vision and a brick. Surfer is a jobber, who only has good showings in space.

-Just using the same logic against you. Since they are in the same comic, it's all PIS. 🙂

Originally posted by Accel

- except they do have to do something other than that. Otherwise, it’s nothing but an annoyance to Hulk. In a one-on-one, Hulk could simply pull out the ol’ thunderclap. In this thread, even if Hulk doesn’t do any thing, Iron Man is just left spinning him around until Surfer or Srange or Namor takes him out from behind

-which doesn’t translate into him not being able to move his limbs. Tony isn’t Magneto and he hasn’t shown any where near the kind of control that he can do more than simply lift Hulk up in the air.

-where the hell do you get your reasoning that Hulk gets weaker when he’s in the air? You honestly think Hulk being spun around is going to suddenly make him lose strength or something?

-What else do they have to do? You seem to be redefining things now. So, if they lead to Hulk being subdued completely, they are ineffective?

-Can't prove a negative, if he doesn't show movement when he's trying to escape. What should a rational person assume. Post evidence to the contrary.

-Same reasoning that you have with samson. Hulk get's weaker when he's off-gaurd while Samson gets so strong he can take out Savage hulk.

Originally posted by Accel

Feel free to point out Wrecker on that list of people I gave.

Wrecker's knocked him out, and he's a lame badguy.

Originally posted by Accel

And tricked him into not fighting back; he even admitted it himself. Or do I need to point out to you again that Hulk doesn’t throw a single punch the entire time?

Except that his punches would not have done squat. Because Classic juggy is completely invincible.

Originally posted by Accel

Against original Abomination (though he did manage to handle original Abomination when they fought again because of the Galaxy Master).

By defeating Galaxy master, who's power is tied to abomination. Abomination was beating his butt, untill he stopped to gloat. This gave Hulk time to counter attack and attack Galaxy master. He cannot beat Original Abomination or the Rejects who Hulk admitted was stronger.

Originally posted by Accel
Except my reference was brought up to show yet another example where Iron Man couldn’t do any thing to Hulk, just as he had been doing consistently through =out their battles barring one time.

Your reference doesn’t even go beyond the 60s.

Except, all your other examples are form the sixties.

Fantastic Four#26 (1964)

Avengers #3-#5 (1964)

Seriously, you really have no idea what your talking about.

Originally posted by Accel

Except Samson has only done so when Hulk literally wasn;t paying any attention and wasn’t even thinking about fighting. Hulk’s pulled the same bullshits and tricks on Thor back in one of their most recent clashes, when he cheap-shotted Thor and proceeded to pummel him into the ground.

His durability did not change though, now did it? And, when did he defeat Thor with a cheapshot?

Originally posted by Accel

But, never beat Thor versus Hulk who was K.O.ed . . .in his stronger incarnation at that. Even though he’s shown to move billions of tons of tectonic plates before without getting that angry at all?
Or the fact that’s he’s shown to hold a 150 billion ton portion of a mountain range? Or the fact that he’s shown to be able to stalemate and even beat Class 100 brawlers like Thor, even in the beginning of fights?

LMFAO!!

Your refrencing the cover of secret wars, that never happened in the comic slick. It was only featured in the cover, I can't believe someone actuall used that.

Originally posted by Accel

I just don’t care for you’re asinine ways of interpreting things. Nothing more.

Or evidence or Logic

Originally posted by Accel

It’s also a fallacy to cite a comic issue to prove something when you even admit it’s PIS.

What fallacy what that be?

Originally posted by Accel

Have fun proving it hurt him. eat

I guess that painful expression on his face is just an illusion?
Your going into the "Ignoring evidence" tangent now, how cute. 🙂

Originally posted by Accel

-Or instead of retardedly twiddling his thumbs while Stark attempts to this, he could hold his breathe and then simply clap every thing around him into oblivion.

-And that’s still assuming he just lets Tony carry him to any the nearest body of water instead of thunderclapping right away and getting it over with.

-While the water cushions the blow or when starks out maneuveurs him or when Starks holds his mout open. . .etc.

-If Hulk thunderclaps him, that just means his desperate. Besides, Iron Man reacts faster than him.

Originally posted by Accel

Except Logan's never needed an airplane explosion to stun Hulk for him. 🙂

Because you asked me for instances where Iron Man had trouble with She-Hulk. So, what, Rogue (pre-Ms. Marvel) using She-Hulk’s powers is somehow… more powerful than She-Hulk?

-Because he has a jobber aura instead

-Sure why not, considering regular She Hulk was One shotted. Furthermore, the scan just shows Iron Man floored after firing one repulsor. . .Big deal. She-Hulk was laid out in his arms like a drunken harlot. Big difference.

Originally posted by Accel

That was to show you the ‘other’ Captain Marvel who could summon lightning, mainly since you made it clear you didn’t know who she was.

Because Captain Marvel does not summon lighting except for in DC. That scan just shows here using electricity.

Originally posted by Accel

Referring to your lightning example, I wonder how many times I have to mention the fact that Hulk’s shown the ability to take lightning bolts like he does there, millions of volts through underground wires, and hundreds of thousands of volts on more than one occasion from Zzzax to show you that they greatly overshadow his stint with Black Bolt there before it finally gets through to you?.

How about scanning, we have two issues where he's hurt by electricity versus two issues where he is not. Average that out or find more instances.

Originally posted by Accel

-Except he did win two of their brawls in the first two issues I cited to you. He didn’t knock Thor out, but mainly because he became tired of fighting in both instances and left.

But since you love the idea of people knocking each other out, no matter how they do it, Hulk did once pummel Thor into submission at one point. He only did it so easily because it was a massive cheap-shot, but hey, that stuff doesn’t matter does it?

-What issue has he knocked out Thor?

-When did this happen?

Originally posted by Accel

Never said that, but he has shrugged them off and kept coming for more, which is a lot more than what Iron Man could say when an airplane didn’t explode around him.

-Okay, you did not mention the original Abmination, I concede that point.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-A populem argument, how pathetic. Your knowledge and my knowledge of comics are on the line here. If you think that by have ing someone else post their opinion will help you case, your just comiiting another logic fallacy.

-Your using one comic to try to refute his entire career. 😱

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
Oh, the Irony:

1) Wait, Wait, you mean like how a plane explosion does not weaken his durability? It's funny that your pointing out his durability being the same in that instance, but not in his fight with Iron Man.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
2) His healing factor depends on his anger. Besides, His healing factor back then is not comaparble to how it is now nor has it stopped him from being K.O.ed.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-Which you haven't even demonstrated.

-Yes, you do, your claiming he was not restricted then the burden of proof is on you. Hulk was trying to escape, he did not. . .end. He subdued until rick jones came, So, Iron Man was effective in this fight. Since he was able to hold Hulk when no one else in the avengers could not, until Thor came.

-I'm basing it on common sense, if hulk was trying to escape and did not. What does that mean, must I spell it out for you?

There. There’s three instances of Hulk resisting forces far stronger than Tony’s magnetism, unless you can provide evidence that he is any where near them. That’s my evidence that he could simply clap his hands together, despite being in Iron Man’s magnetic field.

Your turn. Go ahead and prove that Tony’s field was so strong that Hulk couldn’t do it.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-He was one knee, I wonder how he got there?
He's unharmed, based on what exactly? Again, no proof on your part.
Hulk was standing, he got punch, and is on one knee. Why is that, because he's tying his shoes?

If putting someone on their knees means that they’re in so much pain, I guess that means Hulk’s punch >>> Godblast

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-Iron Man was commenting on how that punch did not stop the Hulk.

QUOTE=9742579]Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-Doesn't matter, that's not Hulk. Regular Hulk has never done that to Classic Iron Man.[/QUOTE]
Except... he does it here and here.

What do ya know?

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-If you don't care what I think, why are you debating me?
Are you that full of spite?

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
Inches? 😆

More like several feet.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-I read his respect Thread before several times. Why should I tread through a bunch of irrelevant scans just to prove your point? You made the claim that he has a shit load of high end durability feats that out way his low ends. I'm still waiting, because it seems that you feel your above everything. Logic, evidence, and commonsense. . .It's like talking to kid.

Well, there’s Hulk withstanding sonic blast that ripped apart an entire cosmos, ramming right through an asteroid 2X the size of Earth withstanding attacks from Celestials, taking Gladiator’s heat vision as well as Surfer’s blasts (which even Thor has commented at point would slay him); he has withstood millions of volts of electricity, Captain Marvel’s lightning twice, Thor’s lightning twice, and Zzzax’s electricity (all of which overshadow him being taken out by BB’s lightning); he’s taken punches from the likes of Thor, Hercules, Wonder Man, Abomination, Namor, Sasquatch, Wendigo, Thing, Juggernaut, and others stronger than Iron Man multiple times and came back for more.

So that’s at least five instance of Hulk withstanding massive amounts of electricity to overshadow the BB incident, at least four durability feats that are far above taking any thing like a nuke, and at least seven characters much stronger than Iron Man who couldn’t ever take him in down in all-out brawls.

And there’s plenty more where that came from if you just check the thread instead of bugging me fro evidence that shouldn’t be needed to show Hulk can take a nuke just fine.

So, what other low-feats do you have that hold any ground over those consistent high-end feats?

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
1) Except that with the Hulk, both should be possible since he has variable strength. 😬

2) No, it doesn't, and if your claiming it does P-R-O-V-E-I-T

3) I average it out, because that is how we debate.

Come on buddy, I could have gotten a special education class to understand this concept by now, so you shouldn’t be too far behind in getting it.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-Wrecking crew sucks, if you have evidence they are stronger than Iron-Man. Please show it, because I find it funny that your hyping them up to be stronger then: Hulk and Strange. Just to prove they are stronger than Iron Man? Thor his soloed them, and it took all of them to beat a drunk hercules. . .

- So, what, if samson could knock Hulk on his back (Savage Hulk at that) Iron Man cannot? Iron Man has beaten Thor with out cheap shotting him, can't say the same about the Hulk now can I. He's also given surfer problem, but so has vision and a brick. Surfer is a jobber, who only has good showings in space.

-Just using the same logic against you. Since they are in the same comic, it's all PIS. 🙂

-Knocking him on his back? I don’t see why not. How the hell that could possibly translate to a victory in your mind, I’ll never understand

-Only communists claim any thing Cap has done to be PIS. And he still didn’t hurt Hulk unless you can provide evidence of otherwise.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-What else do they have to do? You seem to be redefining things now. So, if they lead to Hulk being subdued completely, they are ineffective?

-Can't prove a negative, if he doesn't show movement when he's trying to escape. What should a rational person assume. Post evidence to the contrary.

-Same reasoning that you have with samson. Hulk get's weaker when he's off-gaurd while Samson gets so strong he can take out Savage hulk.

-Who said he couldn’t move his limbs? Heck the guy’s shown he can resist a field capable of moving a planet and telekinesis that could repel reality itself. Now unless you prove Tony’s magnetic repulsors are on that level, you have no evidence that Hulk couldn’t move his limbs to thunderclap.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
Wrecker's knocked him out, and he's a lame badguy.

Are you sure you want to cite that as evidence of any thing?

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
Except that his punches would not have done squat. Because Classic juggy is completely invincible.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
By defeating Galaxy master, who's power is tied to abomination. Abomination was beating his butt, untill he stopped to gloat. This gave Hulk time to counter attack and attack Galaxy master. He cannot beat Original Abomination or the Rejects who Hulk admitted was stronger.

And all this is irrelevant, since Abomination is far stronger than Tony in either his original incarnation or his weaker incarnation.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
Except, all your other examples are form the sixties.

Fantastic Four#26 (1964)

Avengers #3-#5 (1964)

Seriously, you really have no idea what your talking about.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
His durability did not change though, now did it? And, when did he defeat Thor with a cheapshot?

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
And, when did he defeat Thor with a cheapshot?

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
LMFAO!!

Your refrencing the cover of secret wars, that never happened in the comic slick. It was only featured in the cover, I can't believe someone actuall used that.

The cover just informs us that the portion he held weighed 150 billion tons.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
Or evidence or Logic

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
I guess that painful expression on his face is just an illusion?
Your going into the "Ignoring evidence" tangent now, how cute. 🙂

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-While the water cushions the blow or when starks out maneuveurs him or when Starks holds his mout open. . .etc.

Honestly, what the hell are you talking about? You’re literally pulling tactics out of your ass at this point.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-If Hulk thunderclaps him, that just means his desperate. Besides, Iron Man reacts faster than him.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
Besides, Iron Man reacts faster than him.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-Because he has a jobber aura instead

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-Sure why not, considering regular She Hulk was One shotted. Furthermore, the scan just shows Iron Man floored after firing one repulsor. . .Big deal. She-Hulk was laid out in his arms like a drunken harlot. Big difference.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
How about scanning, we have two issues where he's hurt by electricity versus two issues where he is not. Average that out or find more instances.

Originally posted by Fire Ninja
-Iron man has never been K.O.ed by the Hulk can say the opposite. He kept coming back for more and the fights were inconclusive. Good job mentioning that.

In IH Annual #11, he knocked Iron Man back so hard that Tony was out of it the rest of the fight (and this was after Tony knocked him back a little bit).

Happy Holloween!

Originally posted by Accel
-Rest assured, my constant proving you wrong has been me and me alone.

-No, you just seem to keep missing the parts of my posts where I comment on the airplane incident as being… dare I say it… inconsistent.

-His healing factor never went through any upgrades, so it’s irrelevant.

-Another Red Herring, Pathetic.

-Without any scans to show his consistency in High-end durability

-Except that his healing factor is in direct relation to his power level. The angrier or stronger he gets, the faster he can heal.

Originally posted by Accel

-Hulk’s resisted against a field capable of moving a planet, telekinesis that could repel reality, and the Dr. Strange’s Crimson Bands which have held Galactus before. There. There’s three instances of Hulk resisting forces far stronger than Tony’s magnetism, unless you can provide evidence that he is any where near them. That’s my evidence that he could simply clap his hands together, despite being in Iron Man’s magnetic field.

-Your turn. Go ahead and prove that Tony’s field was so strong that Hulk couldn’t do it.

-Of course he has, but your acting like he was able break free with the quickness. It takes time for him to do that, which was what I was pointing out and you ignored.

-Can't prove that he can't do something, since you cannot prove a negative.

Originally posted by Accel

Only one knee eh? Hulk’s put Juggernaut on both knees with simple punch to the gut.

If putting someone on their knees means that they’re in so much pain, I guess that means Hulk’s punch >>> Godblast

-Nice Red Herring And, Iron Man has put Hulk on his knee's. 🙂

-When has hulk put him on he's knee's, I wanna see this PIS filled scan.

Originally posted by Accel

Correction: he was commenting on how ineffective his attack was in plain English, si it's just another example of how Iron Man couldn;t do any thing to Hulk.

Except he put him on his knee's which you can clearly see. Iron Man, was most likely commenting on the fact that he did not stop the Hulk.

Originally posted by Accel
What do ya know?
here and here.

First Scan: Shows Iron man effectively knocking down the Hulk, what about it?

Second Scan: Not classic

Originally posted by Accel

No, I just don;t take your groundless opinions as fact.

Iron Man- “Y’know what? Actually, just forget the Juggernaut and bring on Mangog. I bet I can get him to submit by knocking him down too!”

-So, much spite. . . 😆

Originally posted by Accel

-Let’s see, you brought up, what, three instances of Hulk being taken down by a missile, a bomb and lightning bolts?

-Well, there’s Hulk withstanding sonic blast that ripped apart an entire cosmos, ramming right through an asteroid 2X the size of Earth withstanding attacks from Celestials, taking Gladiator’s heat vision as well as Surfer’s blasts (which even Thor has commented at point would slay him); he has withstood millions of volts of electricity, Captain Marvel’s lightning twice, Thor’s lightning twice, and Zzzax’s electricity (all of which overshadow him being taken out by BB’s lightning); he’s taken punches from the likes of Thor, Hercules, Wonder Man, Abomination, Namor, Sasquatch, Wendigo, Thing, Juggernaut, and others stronger than Iron Man multiple times and came back for more.

-So that’s at least five instance of Hulk withstanding massive amounts of electricity to overshadow the BB incident, at least four durability feats that are far above taking any thing like a nuke, and at least seven characters much stronger than Iron Man who couldn’t ever take him in down in all-out brawls.

-Plus minions five times, Wreckers Crowbar, Gorgon Gun.
So, that's a total 10 low ends.

-The Captain Marvel incident does not count since it's not regular Hulk

-Surfer is a jobber

Who's stronger than Iron Man?:

-Abomination is not unless it's original
-Wendigo is definetly not Stronger than him
-Thor lost too Iron Man twice
-Namor beat Hulk and lost to Iron Man
-Juggernaut K.O.ed him
-Iron Man>Thing
-Hercules is formidable, but if Iron man can handle Thor. Then the same should be said for him. But, Thor using his hammer would pwn Hulk & Thor.

Only person you have is Wonderman

-You are so deluded it's funny. You only have two things that are above nuke level :Asteroid and sonic wave

-Agree'd on the electricity feat

-Except Iron Man can take them out, he has before.

Originally posted by Accel

And there’s plenty more where that came from if you just check the thread instead of bugging me fro evidence that shouldn’t be needed to show Hulk can take a nuke just fine.

So, what other low-feats do you have that hold any ground over those consistent high-end feats?

-Being K.O'ed by Missles
-Being K.O.ed by Gorgons Gun
-Almost dying from leaders bots
-Almost dying from nuke used by the U.S. millitary
- Almost dying from agunshot wound inflicted to banner

-K.O.ed by wrecker
-K.O'ed by a weaker Abomination with a pipe
-K.O.ed by maxing himself out on banners bot
-K.O.ed by a punch from Namor
-K.O'ed by lasers while fighting Bi-Beast
-K.O'ed by Doc samson
-K.O'ed by a cement truck
-K.O'ed by Iron-Man

That's 13, So, that's past all the durability feats you've put. . . Please get more.

Originally posted by Accel

1.) Sure, but there’s no reason to believe his strength would actually go low enough to be KOed by a bomb.
2.)Done
3.)No, we go by consistent feats, not averaging them out. If Hulk is shown taking multiple nukes, but is KOed by a cherry bomb that doesn’t mean he all of a sudden can only take a less powerful explosive than a nuke.

Come on buddy, I could have gotten a special education class to understand this concept by now, so you shouldn’t be too far behind in getting it.

1)But, he has and by punches.

2)Try Again 🙂

3) No, we average them out. We could go ask together if you want, sweetie.

Originally posted by Accel

-I’m not using them as evidence as any thing (even though they have almost killed both Thor and Hercules in Tor #418 ). You’re the one who’s referring to Wrecker knocking out Hulk in the same issue that Thunderball took out Strange. Obviously they weren’t very weak there at all now were they?

-Knocking him on his back? I don’t see why not. How the hell that could possibly translate to a victory in your mind, I’ll never understand

-Only communists claim any thing Cap has done to be PIS. And he still didn’t hurt Hulk unless you can provide evidence of otherwise.

-Which is why it's inconsistent, they've been soloed by everyone. but, if you wanna count that then Hulk blocking Iron Mans repulsors is PIS because he took a hit from Iron Man. Thor was weakened and Hercules was drunk, but keep ignoring that. If circumstances do not matter then I'm free to mention namor versus Hulk.

-It's an expression. . .and that was a strawman

-He did hurt the Hulk, you admitted it yourself. Remember the excuse you made about "everyone losing to cap"?

Originally posted by Accel

-Okay, now we’re officially going in circles. I’ve explained to you, at least three times already, that “subduing” Hulk by spinning him around and not doing any thing else is not effective, unless he was deliberately stalling for time. Otherwise, Hulk could easily escape.

-Who said he couldn’t move his limbs? Heck the guy’s shown he can resist a field capable of moving a planet and telekinesis that could repel reality itself. Now unless you prove Tony’s magnetic repulsors are on that level, you have no evidence that Hulk couldn’t move his limbs to thunderclap.

-But, he was stalling for time and they eventually subdued him because of that.

-Because his strength is variable, he's not always High-End. If could move his limbs, then prove it. He didn't in that panel; So, he could not.

Originally posted by Accel

In the same issue where the Wrecking Crew were able to take out Dr. Strange with ease.

You mean besides actually stop Juggernaut from pounding on him and actually learning to stop going easy on the so-called “construction worker.”

-Fallacy of division, but your beyond logic

-Juggernaut is invulnerable, that's his power.

Originally posted by Accel

-And Hulk showed that he could become stronger than original Abomination if he could last long enough.

-And all this is irrelevant, since Abomination is far stronger than Tony in either his original incarnation or his weaker incarnation.

-Not before being K.O.ed he won't. He's consistently proved to be no match for him.

-No, he is not.

Originally posted by Accel

Hey, what do you know, you got one. Any way, yeah I was mostly thinking early sixties, but I’m not going to be slitting my wrists any time soon over not remembering the exact date of each issue.

Why would you, it's just a comic. 🙂

Originally posted by Accel

-You do realize how much easier it is to knock out some one out when they don’t see it coming right? Especially when the guy being punched doesn’t even believe a seemingly harmless “illusion” is going to attack him.

-Incredible Hulk Annual 2001. Hulk cheap-shots Thor and continues to beat on him until he assumes he’s knocked ot and walks away. Thor wasn’t unconscious, but he could easily have been if Hulk continued his pounding.

-I know, but if the victim can consistently take nukes. That punch should simply tickle, unless he cannot consistently take nukes.

-Classics only please

Originally posted by Accel

What, Hulk holding up a giant mountain from crushing the Avengers never happened? You’ll have to reread the comic if you believe that.

The cover just informs us that the portion he held weighed 150 billion tons.

The cover isn't canon, and the weight was never calculated. Also, he was not at baseline like you stated; He was hulked up for while before molecule man dropped the moutain range. Furthermore, he was angry due to reeds inflammotory comments and could barely brace it. Even, though it was the leverage that was helping him.

Originally posted by Accel

You mean the logic that Hulk being dazed by an airplane explosion and then being knocked out by Iron Man doesn’t make any sense?

It does make sense if you factor Iron Mans strength and Hulk durability. He caught him off gaurd and you your self stated this:

Originally posted by Accel

-You do realize how much easier it is to knock out some one out when they don’t see it coming right? Especially when the guy being punched doesn’t even believe a seemingly harmless “illusion” is going to attack him.

Originally posted by Accel

You mean this expression of pain, that coincidentally looks exactly like his tyoical angry expression that he always wears? 😂

Hulk grits his teeth when he's angry and he does not close his eye's.

Originally posted by Accel

…

Honestly, what the hell are you talking about? You’re literally pulling tactics out of your ass at this point.

Hulks power would be cut in half due to the resistance water offers. Water is heavier medium than air and offers more resistance. Resistance wears down on force, since it slows movement down. This is basic physics.

Originally posted by Accel

-So using a tactic he’s perfectly able to use to get out of being spun in the air is all of a sudden an act of desperation? 😂

-Prove it, ‘cause Hulk’s had no problems reacting to Iron Man every time they fought.

-Yeah, it is, because he has no other choice

-Barely, look how many hits Iron Man has over him. . .He's faster as well.

Originally posted by Accel

-Cop-out answer.

-Except there is no difference between She-Hulk and Shulkie Rogue.

-So, you believe wolverine's fights are consistent?

-They are two different people, though.

Originally posted by Accel

It’s all in the respect thread if you don’t believe me.

Okay, Ill go look.

Originally posted by Accel

His armor has shown that it can be damaged to the point beyond functioning, which is effectively the same thing. It happened in when Hulk ripped up his circuitry in IH #322 and again when She-Hulk punched him in Avengers and took his systems out.

Of course it can, but Hulks only done that once barring his savage incarnations. Classic she-Hulk has never done that.

Originally posted by Accel

In IH Annual #11, he knocked Iron Man back so hard that Tony was out of it the rest of the fight (and this was after Tony knocked him back a little bit).

He was not k.O.ed, though. Tony a dying man took the blunt of the blow, and he was fine. His suit was just maxed out, which is not suprising. But, Hulk has never knocked him out.

Btw, IH annual #11, Iron Man fell because of the green flu. Just like everyone else.

And, as usual, Fire Ninja has failed to bring in any new relevant points and only recycles old, stale arguments. Ho Hum.

I can see continuing any further with this is going to be a waste of time.

Defenders win. Easily. 🙂

Originally posted by Accel

Defenders win. Easily. 🙂

Yeah, strange is gonna solo them. That's what most people agree'd on, and I voted on too. It was a good debate, friend. 🙂

Not really necessary. Hulk can take down Iron Man and Surfer can take down Thor while Namor handles the rest.

Strange could just read a book while his team handles the excess baggage.

Defenders no prob.

Originally posted by Accel
Not really necessary. Hulk can take down Iron Man and Surfer can take down Thor while Namor handles the rest.

Strange could just read a book while his team handles the excess baggage.

Most encounters between Thor and Surfer have Thor winning.

Hulk will take out Iron Man, but it will take time

Namor will defeat Gaint Man and move on to Iron Man.

If Iron Man fights namor, he will beat him.

Strange is the only problem.

Whatever helps you sleep at night buddy.