CC Zack Fair versus AC Tifa Lockhart

Originally posted by GahLakTus

Lets take the anakin vs dooku duel for example, dooku had far more experience than anakin but his experience was stated to be irrelevant due to the sheer skill of anakins swordplay abilities.

The same can be said for zack and tifa. Tifa may have more experience but zack has demonstrated far greater skill by showing the capability to smack and block bullets with his sword. This alone depicts amazing speed for such a simple feat to be accomplished

For reasons I can't explain, as soon as ou mentioned "Skill > Experience" I KNEW you were going to bring this up.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
^ Nuff said. And yes sado i did see last order, the "move in blurs" as i was pointing out was from there

Originally posted by Sado-sama
Um..I see this debate started out of ignorance. Have you guys seen Last Order 😬? Zack fends off against multiple soldiers with machine guns with his body alone and without a sword, dodged bullets while seeing them in slow motion and kicked the crap out of them with his limbs. THAT is Zack's H2H skills. 😬

I think he'll rape Tifa (after defeating her with effort...Tifa likes getting raped. 313)

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Its called using logic friend. You make it sound as if zack cannot fight at all if you remove his sword despite the fact that in the real world soldiers are taught at the very least hand to hand combat techniques, to a point where they teach you how to kill your opponent swiftly

Because, if they haven't or don't, then I think it's safe to assume that Tifa holds the edge and skill... and it's illogical to award someone a win because you think it makes sense for them to be superior, despite never proving it.

And, as you've been spouting, skill > experience. Even assuming that (illogical though it may be), Tifa obviously holds the edge in experience, and is the only one with feats to back up assumptions about her H2H skill.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
More importantly you were unable to see the fact i hinted that it takes common sense to know that a soldier has at the least hand to hand techniques and you completely misunderstood that and attempted to twist that.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Once again you have demonstrated extreme stupidity by using this logic, "Guy A does Feat X, Guy B does not, so it means guy A >>>>>>>>>>>>> B".

Characters that have feats to back up statements vs. characters that win or lose based entirely on your supposition?

More like...

"Guy A consistently demonstrates skill in this department, Guy B does not, therefore we can assume Guy B is teh bestest!!1!!!1!"

Originally posted by GahLakTus
I guess the fact that zack could move in blurs and tifa cant it already means he > tifa in hand to hand combat which is very plausible given that he would receive hand to hand training as a soldier and the fact that he is somebody stronger physically, can take more damage, can move in blurs.

If you would like to switch arguments to incorporate his superior stats and inferior skill, I won't argue.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
But a case can be made, just because he has never been shown to fight hand to hand doesn't mean he can't, given his status.

I'd still say Bruce Lee possesses superior skill.

i agree 100% with SwindlingSmurph 😄
2nd class zack will lose to tifa at her best..

Originally posted by SwindlingSmurph

I think you'll find my debate has been entirely on whether Zack possesses skill superior to Tifa, which has been your implication all along.

And the fact im argueing because you make it sounds as if zack has no H2h skills at all but seeing that you conceded that.

Your original implication that tifa would win was based solely on tifas experience as i have pointed out is fallible. Heres the quote.

And, for the record, experience builds skill... and Tifa, in this case, has all the experience.

THAT was what i was argueing. And remember i said its plausible that he could defeat tifa if you understand the word given his superior stats.

Now the only thing which will not allow me to give zack a win is as you pointed out, the feats he has yet to show with H2H. But again why couldn't it be plausible that he may or may not win seeing he can move at speeds faster than the eye can see?

well, seeing as he couldn't in the intro, im guessing he cant 😬

Fine then, ill just concede, reply all you want but i won't give a rebutal because i think i did make some mistakes

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Fine then, ill just concede, reply all you want but i won't give a rebutal because i think i did make some mistakes

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
It's too bad LO is no longer canon, at all. Now it's CC from what I hear.

The Nibelheim Incident of LO is not cannon anymore, but Zack and Cloud's scape still is.

Maybe it will not change the opinion of anyone about this fight, but... Information about Tifa's "Final Heaven", from the Compilation Ultimania:

Quote: text near image of Tifa charging spirit energy into her fist
Brandishing her right hand, she concentrates her fighting spirit into her clenched fist.

Quote: text near image of Tifa with her fist shining bright
With the fist that starts to emanate light depending on the amount of spirit energy gathered, she deals a massive blow to the monster!

Quote: text near image of Tifa's explosive finishing punch
The spirit energy that is sent into the monster through her fist starts to destroy it from within, crushing it together with a big explosion.

It seems a very powerful attack(especially the part in bold). Could Zack survive it?

Probably not.
But she'd have to hit him with it for that to really matter.

Zack is heterosexual and thus starts off at a disadvantage against Tifa. However he is stronger and faster.
But OTOH Tifa is more skilled in unarmed MA fighting.

It's a very nifty battle.

Weren't the best candidates for SOLDIER scouted out and recruited by the turks?

Zack was recruited and Tifa wasn't. IMO on that alone, it should belong to Zack.

That made less sense than that pic of Darth Vader at the beach.

Zack at this point has not one H2H feat. Whereas Tifa was taking it to Loz, who would DESTROY Zack in H2H.

And Tifa when Zack was recruited was just a little girl(maybe teen). And judging her appearance, she doesn't LOOK that tough, when in fact, in terms of H2H, she takes this match easily.

*sighs* for those who haven't played the game then.

It's mentioned early on in the game that the Turks are assigned to scout and recruit possible candidates for SOLDIER. Since they are also involved with kidnap and murder on the inside, it wouldn't be a leap to assume they don't have issues with forcefully recruiting people.

Zack was picked up, and he lives in a place similar to Tifa& Cloud.

My point being that if Zack was picked up, then it was because he shown promise even since having anything to do with fighting. For that reason i believe that even at that inexperienced time in his life Zack would more than likely be able to take Tifa. As She wasn't picked up so it would seem her natural skill is much lower than Zack's.

[edit]

You say Loz would destroy Zack, How do you know? You clearly remember less about the games, and in general seem to know allot less about FF7 than myself. So, why may i ask, if i cannot say anything like that, do you feel your opinion in that instance is fact?

Tifa got owned by Loz.

Loz AND Yazoo got owned by diseased Cloud.

If i had to call that, Zack would take it. (That being this Zack, the inexperienced one)

Originally posted by EvilAngel
*sighs* for those who haven't played the game then.

It's mentioned early on in the game that the Turks are assigned to scout and recruit possible candidates for SOLDIER. Since they are also involved with kidnap and murder on the inside, it wouldn't be a leap to assume they don't have issues with forcefully recruiting people.

Zack was picked up, and he lives in a place similar to Tifa& Cloud.

My point being that if Zack was picked up, then it was because he shown promise even since having anything to do with fighting. For that reason i believe that even at that inexperienced time in his life Zack would more than likely be able to take Tifa. As She wasn't picked up so it would seem her natural skill is much lower than Zack's.

[edit]

You say Loz would destroy Zack, How do you know? You clearly remember less about the games, and in general seem to know allot less about FF7 than myself. So, why may i ask, if i cannot say anything like that, do you feel your opinion in that instance is fact?

Tifa got owned by Loz.

Loz AND Yazoo got owned by diseased Cloud.

If i had to call that, Zack would take it. (That being this Zack, the inexperienced one)

2. Kay.

3. Tifa didn't show promise early in her life, though she has shown much greater H2H showings than Zack ever did.

4. In H2H, no weapons, Loz would annihilate Zack, he is faster, has greater H2H showings, and more skill.

5. Tifa took it to Loz, he won because of speed.

6. Not H2H, no relevance to this match. Cloud without a weapon would be owned by Loz too.

7. Not in H2H.

Oh, and you were using A>B>C logic.

So after playing through Crisis Core it is painfully obvious that Tifa would get curb stomped in this fight. Angeal told Zack the Buster Sword represented his honor, and that's why he never used it, so after Zack gets the sword, he also rarely uses it.

After Zack picks up the Buster Sword he usually fights hand to hand like with his Rush Assault limit break, or uses the blunt edge of the Buster Sword. So Zack not only has power far greater than Tifa has ever shown, he is also a ver adept hand to hand fighter.

...Zack

The guy got his ass swiss cheesed wit machine guns and it wasn't until he he was shot while on the ground that he died.

Can Tifa dish out any thing close to a Shinra army, not to mention that Zack wasn't really in the best of health in the 1st place. If he were in tip top shape he'd beat the tar outta Tifa.

Let's not forget that Zack isn't some chump when it comes to H2H, he's got the Rush Assault and he hardly ever uses the Buster Sword in battle. He's got some H2H experience.

Doesn't Zack have an advantage since he is infused with mako which would enhance his reflexes to a higher degree? Tifa is human by the way but I think her gloves give her power if I'm not correct. Honestly, AC kind of exaggerated Tifa's abilities as well as Yuffie's (Yuffie wall walks while Tifa punches Loz so that he flies away a considerable distance, jumps a considerable height before throwing Loz, breaking a damned pew). Well may be I'm taking this too far since I'm looking at this from a realistic point of view.

You've been here for two years and you have six posts?