Question: Can ANYONE beat Classic Beyonder?

Final Stage Korvac

Infinite Man

Originally posted by Horrificus
Final Stage Korvac

Infinite Man

Originally posted by Air Legend
Beyonder had the power of editor in cheif at the time

Not saying Beyonder wasn't powerful, but c'mon. srsly

Originally posted by Astner
How can a avatar in the comics exist outside the Omniverse in the first place, wouldn't that mean that he's outside the comics?

In Marvel there is one place beyond the Omniverse,

Roma called it the "Ascension"

FF visited a place called "heaven"

I believe this to be the same place.

It's where Toaa/god (representitive Avatar of the ArtistS & WriterS)
create and draw everything we read in Marvel comics.

Basically a symbolization that depicts how Real World ArtistS/WriterS think & create,
what we read in Marvel comics.
...........................................................................

So to answer your question directly,

the Avatar can exist outside the Omniverse,
because Marvel has Two locations that make up their Comics,

1. The "Omniverse"
(every possible Universe)

2. The "Ascension" or "heaven"
(where every story in the Omniverse is created day by day by Toaa/god)

rachel using the beyonders power knocked him down. so i guess only he could beat him self. ok now im 😕

Originally posted by Mr Master
No doubt in status,
but obviously Toaa/god wanted an anomaly of power to enter the Marvel Universe,
and take over it, be anything and everything,
better yet, be what they (Toaa/god) would be, if they entered Marvel comics.

Cause that's what Beyonder was,
a god, a supreme being, a being that encompassed a near Omniverse.

But built with faults, and why?

To try and give the cat some meaning, some substance, some interest,
otherwise, the story is bland and over the top, which gets boring real quick.
And they had a hard time already even while keeping the Beyonder limited,
so go figure had they unleashed his full potential from the beginning.

So let me get this straight Mr Master

Beyonder = TOAA based on what to be exact?

The Current Marvel Omniverse Pre Retcon Beyonder's estate where was this stated???

Beyonder and MM > LT for the same reasons Scathan > LT? TOAA (writers) will???

Originally posted by Utrigita
Beyonder = TOAA based on what to be exact?

Many things,

Beyonder taking over all of Marvel,
Beyonder making the Cosmics (including the LT) desperate,
Beyonder being Millions of times more powerful, than the rest of Marvel,
Beyonder creating a Universe that was an Ocean, while the rest of Marvel is a Drop of Water,

Or this:

But, I still consider Beyonder below Toaa/god/THOTI

Originally posted by Utrigita
The Current Marvel Omniverse Pre Retcon Beyonder's estate where was this stated???

I clearly said, Beyonder was a Near-Omniverse (Everything Outisde the Multiverse)

Or eveything Inside the Multiverse:

"I. who utterly dictate ALL Reality"

"As long as I conceive of things, they exist...My thoughts EQUAL Reality"

Originally posted by Utrigita
Beyonder and MM > LT for the same reasons Scathan > LT?
TOAA (writers) will???

Not exactly.

Scathan wasn't > LT to begin with, at best Scathan = LT.

The difference is Scathan appeared in one single arc that spanned 4 issues.

Beyonder had Two entire Multi-Series, 21 isssues plus over 10 tie ins,
and Beyonder has continued to appear in comics ever since.

Also, Scathan = or > LT is senseless considering the history and powerset of Celestials.

Beyonder was what he was from the very beginning.

Originally posted by Mr Master
In Marvel there is one place beyond the Omniverse,

Roma called it the "Ascension"

FF visited a place called "heaven"

I believe this to be the same place.

It's where Toaa/god (representitive Avatar of the ArtistS & WriterS)
create and draw everything we read in Marvel comics.

Basically a symbolization that depicts how Real World ArtistS/WriterS think & create,
what we read in Marvel comics.
...........................................................................

So to answer your question directly,

the Avatar can exist outside the Omniverse,
because Marvel has Two locations that make up their Comics,

1. The "Omniverse"
(every possible Universe)

2. The "Ascension" or "heaven"
(where every story in the Omniverse is created day by day by Toaa/god)

But then again couldn't Roma have meant that the Chaos Cave would reach the ends of the Omniverse?

Originally posted by Astner
That pretty much contradicts that the Omniverse is every reality in the comics,

now doesn't it?

No it doesn't.

Every reality/story in Marvel comics takes place in the Omniverse.

But every reality in Marvel comics that takes place in the Omniverse,
is written and drawn somewhere else naturally.

In the real world that's Writers & Artists obviously in a studio,
in Marvel comics, that was tipified by a man that Creates on a drawing board (Artist)
and a person ("collaborator"😉 that gives him the ideas was on the phone (Writer)

So I'm not surprised there's One reality Above All,
the ultimate "Ascension"
where the Omniverse in all its forms was and is created,
how everything that has happened, happens, and will happen in it,
is just drawings on a piece of paper to Toaa/god.

Originally posted by Astner
Wouldn't that be the real world?

No.

Originally posted by Astner
So there is a realm in the comics, outside creation were the writers are represented by avatars. Seems a bit far fetched if you ask me.

You'l have to email Marvel on that one.

I'm just telling ya what #511 depicted.

god was literally drawing Marvel realities on paper,
Silver Surfer, Black Panther, Galactus invloved story, FF
and other joints.

So yea, this "realm" would be called "heaven" in this instant.

(Anyway, you should know this since we discussed this before)
I have the scans if needed.

Originally posted by Astner
But then again
couldn't Roma have meant that the Chaos Cave would reach the ends of the Omniverse?

Nah,

because Roma first stated that all imagination would fold,
and Then "perhaps even the Ascension itself"

Here's the scan:

"The Chaos Wave will keep expanding along the Sidereal String,
to the farthest reaches of imagination,
from the sundered Planes to the sublimity -- (notice the Two dashes)
perhaps to the Ascension itself"

Originally posted by Merlyn
Would you mind posting a scan where this was stated? Or at least give me an issue number, or something? If you are unable to, I see this as little more then a fanboy-ish rant. 🙂

Not saying Beyonder wasn't powerful, but c'mon. srsly

Sorry it took so long, but I didn't feel like debating yesterday. 🙂

Originally posted by Air Legend
I'll PM it to you if you want because I don't want nvr to babble and rather leave him in a state of confusion. 🙂

Originally posted by Air Legend
"A few simple adjustments, based upon that data"
So what was he adjusting according to you? His brain. It's pretty obvious he was adjusting the equipment he used to steal Galactus' power and then he"borrowed some technology" from Galactus to aid him in stealing the Beyonder's power.

I figure you want me to answer this, right? OK.

Explained below (last part), but he had no equipment that he used to absorb Galactus's energies... that was a giant machine that wasn't connected to his armor in any way. Just served to put Galactus's energies into him.

Originally posted by Air Legend
Nothing of the sort happened. Doom was knocked out. When he wakes up the Beyonder has already been dissecting him (taken the armor apart) and been looking into his mind. The breastplate hovers near and the Beyonder is close at hand. Doom feebly reaches out with his arm and then it ends. Pretty much the Beyonder let his guard up and got too close to the plate.
http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img016yh8.jpg

Originally posted by Air Legend
He needed the machine to absorb Galactus' energy in the first place. He then made adjusments (Klaw and Beyonder tech, though not the machine) and borrowed some Galactus tech.
But you know it really doesn't matter since Doom was only alive in the first place because of the Beyonder.

And it really doesn't matter since Doom was able to hold the 'writers' power inside of him.

Originally posted by Air Legend
You still have to answer for that "adjustment" statement. I'm sure you'll try to say he was adjusting it to Galactus' tech but that is not the case since he said "AND borrowing some..." KEYWORD: AND.

Second, he adjusted his armor based on Beyonder's energies. That most likely had to do with Doom being able to handle the energies, since if you followed Doom...
Doom often adjusts his armor to handle energies that before were able to defeat him.
A good example would be when Namor took him out with electricity, and later he adjusted his armor so it wouldn't happen again (and even absorbed the energy).

However, Galactus's tech was still able to take Beyonder's power... and the adjustments served for Doom to be able to withstand it. IMO.

But my main point is, Doom was able to have the 'writers' power inside of him. Essentially a mortal... has the editors power inside of him... no matter the adjustments... that shouldn't happen.
Because, I don't believe that bull hockey. 🙂 However, he was extremely powerful, but it's stupid when people try and force 'real' power into comic characters.

It's different when the writer appears in the comic (Stan Lee).

Originally posted by Air Legend
hysterical2

Um... you don't think that the Infinite Man, having control over All Power, of All Time-lines, Past, Present and Future is a threat to the Beyonder?

The Beyonder still existed within time. For some reason.

Anyway, we can also just do it the easy way...

Doctor Doom wins! 😄

Originally posted by Air Legend
Having the power of the editor in cheif is just a saying dude. Or did you think I literally meant Jim Shooter's drawing can have real world powers?

"Beyonder had the power of editor in cheif at the time" -- am I the only one who can see the humor in that line of 'reasoning'?

giggle00.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's what I have always thought you meant -- which is subsequently why I tend to giggle at these Beyonder threads you like to debate in.

"Beyonder had the power of editor in cheif at the time" -- am I the only one who can see the humor in that line of 'reasoning'?

giggle00.

Yeah, Beyonder worked his up from a Sales Position, then into some Penciling work.

Originally posted by Bransolute
Sorry it took so long, but I didn't feel like debating yesterday.

Or you can give me an issue number?

Originally posted by Bransolute

Glad to see you brought up a completely different point out of nowhere. 🙂

I figure you want me to answer this, right? OK.

Explained below (last part), but he had no equipment that he used to absorb Galactus's energies... that was a giant machine that wasn't connected to his armor in any way. Just served to put Galactus's energies into him.

You're arguing irrelevant details.
Either way, Doom made the tech work, and it absorbed Beyonder's powers.

Originally posted by Bransolute
He used his newly vast powers, and suit to make the adjustments...

And it really doesn't matter since Doom was able to hold the 'writers' power inside of him.

Originally posted by Bransolute
First off, you just brought up that point, so it would be impossible for me to answer it, until now...

Second, he adjusted his armor based on Beyonder's energies. That most likely had to do with Doom being able to handle the energies, since if you followed Doom...
Doom often adjusts his armor to handle energies that before were able to defeat him.
A good example would be when Namor took him out with electricity, and later he adjusted his armor so it wouldn't happen again (and even absorbed the energy).

However, Galactus's tech was still able to take Beyonder's power... and the adjustments served for Doom to be able to withstand it. IMO.

Originally posted by Bransolute
But my main point is, Doom was able to have the 'writers' power inside of him.

Originally posted by Bransolute
Essentially a mortal...

Originally posted by Bransolute
has the editors power inside of him... no matter the adjustments... that shouldn't happen.

Originally posted by Bransolute
Because, I don't believe that bull hockey. 🙂 However, he was extremely powerful, but it's stupid when people try and force 'real' power into comic characters.

Originally posted by Air Legend
Secret Wars II issue #7. Metiphiso gets consensus from cosmic heirachy and they work together to plan a sneak attack on the Beyonder.

Beyonder's Bane? The machine Mephisto used so he could take down Beyonder... powered by Eternity. While LT and all others didn't lift a finger...

Your original point:

Originally posted by Air Legend
The funny thing is the LT along with the cosmic hierarchy did try to attack the Beyonder. I'm not gonna post it because I find it hilarious how nvr doesn't know what the hell I'm talking about and neither do you. 🙂

And based on your new statement, and the book itself... LT only gave consensus so Meph could use Eternity as his operator in Beyonder's Bane.
🙂

Originally posted by Air Legend
Ah, I see. If somethig you state is wrong, it becomes irrelevant.
Klaw and Beyonder tech?

I don't know what you're asking...

Originally posted by Air Legend
I see you're still trying to be a smart ass. Why don't you point out when Beyonder gave Dazzler some of his power, or when he gave Rachel some power too?

Compared to Beyonder having to trick Doom to take his power back?

Originally posted by Air Legend
...

Because nothing else works...

Believe it if you want, but it's what I think... and it's an actual reason, other than just using the line with nothing supporting it. 🙂

Originally posted by Air Legend
Still being a smart ass, eh?

Originally posted by Air Legend
Essentially a piece of paper 😐

Originally posted by Air Legend
Oh, why not? I mean you seem like you'd be fine if I claimed that the Beyonder had the writers' powers and never had his powers stolen. 😐

Originally posted by Air Legend
I'm gonna tell you the same thing I told that other guy. Having the power of the writers is just a saying. It doesn't literally mean the drawing has real world powers. It means the character was able to do anything the writers wanted him to. This very thing also happened with Thanos when he had the HOTI.

Must be why Thanos couldn't fix a universe/multiverse ( 🙄 ), unless he destroyed it first...

Also, I was responding to this at the time:

Originally posted by Astner
"The Beyonder was supose to represent the power the writers themselves had over the story lines." - Stan Lee

And, I highly doubt that this was the case...

This power of the writers concept is awful, I'm sorry but unless you find on panel evidence that says "The Beyonder is the writer/editor/my mom" I rather picture something more abstract as master commented before.

I really hate when a fictional comic book battle turns into a writer vs a character. It is BEYOND ridiculous if you ask me.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I really hate when a fictional comic book battle turns into a writer vs a character. It is BEYOND ridiculous if you ask me.

Originally posted by Bransolute
Luckily I read that comic a while ago, and remember it because of Thing's actions...

Beyonder's Bane? The machine Mephisto used so he could take down Beyonder... powered by Eternity. While LT and all others didn't lift a finger...

Your original point:

And based on your new statement, and the book itself... LT only gave [b]consensus so Meph could use Eternity as his operator in Beyonder's Bane. [/B]

Originally posted by Bransolute
No, but it's irrelevant either way. Since, you're arguing whether or not Doom dispatched his breastplate. It matters not whether the tech absorbed Beyonder's power itself, or Doom took his powers. It was still stolen by Galactus's tech. 🙂

Originally posted by Bransolute

When he gave a fraction of his power to them?

Compared to Beyonder having to trick Doom to take his power back?

Originally posted by Bransolute
Because it was never clearly defined, and I'm only following Doom's actual history, instead of arguing that my opinions are law, without definitive proof.

Because nothing else works...

Believe it if you want, but it's what I think... and it's an actual reason, other than just using the line with nothing supporting it.

Originally posted by Bransolute
It's my nature.[/B]

Originally posted by Bransolute
OK... so I can write everything off in comics, because it's just a piece of paper?[/B]

Originally posted by Bransolute
And he got his powers stolen. 🙂
I'm sure he wanted that. 🙂[/B]

Originally posted by Bransolute
Must be why Thanos couldn't fix a universe/multiverse ( 🙄 ), unless he destroyed it first...

Originally posted by Bransolute
Also, I was responding to this at the time:

And, I highly doubt that this was the case...