" No Terrorism in Islam "

Originally posted by inimalist
lol

How many casualties do you think the American military could rack up if it was bombing hospitals and that stuff.

Im sorry man, but the idea that the Americans are deliberately attacking civilian targets is ridiculous.

Well if you have picture of American soldiers having their photographs taken next to torture victims why wouldnt they bomb civilian targets? Lets put it this way I guess it wouldnt happen on a regualr basis but you dont think there might have been some cases where it was done unpurpose?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It's a good thing America does everything it can to not kill innocent people.

You do realize that to a soldier in battle there are no innocent people right?

How the hell do you skip over even the Vietnam War? Massive calculated slaughtering of villages. I could really delve into this subject if you want to go there but hell naw...

You would think Abu Grave was enough to demnostrate to you that the U.S. does not make a huge distinction in anything. The U.S. is the sole superpower and there no jurisdiction for the U.S. besides the U.S.

I was explaining to this guy that a lot of "recruits" for these groups are not fighting a holy war. The U.S. came in without ANY real proof (I just wrote a paper and I don't mind copy and pasting excerpts if neccesary; this includes source material) and knocked down their shit. No justification. That alone will make a lot of men want to kill them. It is a rare that a conquered people want to aspire to the ways of their new masters.

Seriously though, you lost points with me on that crap.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well if you have picture of American soldiers having their photographs taken next to torture victims why wouldnt they bomb civilian targets? Lets put it this way I guess it wouldnt happen on a regualr basis but you dont think there might have been some cases where it was done unpurpose?

Ay guey! 🙄

Those Iraqi prisoners weren't tortured, they were humiliated in something about as equal to college hazing. And if you ask me, that's not as bad as beheading someone on camera and then posting it on the net.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Ay guey! 🙄

Those Iraqi prisoners weren't tortured, they were humiliated in something about as equal to college hazing. And if you ask me, that's not as bad as beheading someone on camera and then posting it on the net.

They werent "tortured"? Well at least you admit that they did it. Anyway I think the jurys out on them being tortured.

Originally posted by inimalist
lol

How many casualties do you think the American military could rack up if it was bombing hospitals and that stuff.

Im sorry man, but the idea that the Americans are deliberately attacking civilian targets is ridiculous.

you mean if americans were EXCLUSIVELY targetting hospitals and that stuff.

lmao, isnt isnt between 2.5 and 25 % of the official population a high enough figure as it is??

and then you have blatant attacks agains citizens in the israeli war against lebonan where specificially apartment blocks and infra sturcture was targetted. n what did america have to say about that? oh yea, blame ot on hezbollah allegedly capturing two soldiers KILLING people in palaestinian territory 🙄 .
oh right, america funds israel so..............

hey have we forgotten about afghanistan, orrrrrrr what america makes dummy governments under their control do to their own people all around the world?

and puhleaaaaase! it was torture, not at ALL compareable to a prank. besides, u shud know that american morals arent morals throughout the world, stripping sum1 bare and taking recorded pictures is one of the highest humiliation those people cud face{and no they were innocent to begin with} many women KILL themselves after things liek that happen in those countries. and lets not forget the torture people in gunatanamo bay etc have to face at the hands of american soldiers, when they are mostly all innocent to begin with and havent even been given trials or have any reason for being kept there. as an organisation, america is EVIL. and prolly the single most detrimental force to the world's well being on a collective scale.

You know what I mean.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
over 2.5 % of the population of iraq is dead officially. onofficially the numbers can be upto 10 times as high.

And how many of that 2.5% are caused by normal causes, like car accidents, heart attacks, illness, old age, murder etc etc?

Originally posted by chithappens
You do realize that to a soldier in battle there are no innocent people right?

How the hell do you skip over even the Vietnam War? Massive calculated slaughtering of villages. I could really delve into this subject if you want to go there but hell naw...

You would think Abu Grave was enough to demnostrate to you that the U.S. does not make a huge distinction in anything. The U.S. is the sole superpower and there no jurisdiction for the U.S. besides the U.S.

I was explaining to this guy that a lot of "recruits" for these groups are not fighting a holy war. The U.S. came in without ANY real proof (I just wrote a paper and I don't mind copy and pasting excerpts if neccesary; this includes source material) and knocked down their shit. No justification. That alone will make a lot of men want to kill them. It is a rare that a conquered people want to aspire to the ways of their new masters.

Seriously though, you lost points with me on that crap.

How many years were you in the military? I don't think you know what rules of engagement are.

My point was simple, America has the capability to do great harm. If what you are saying is true, there would be more dead people, like in the millions. When America left Vietnam , 3 million people died because America left.

lol, this is retarded

ok, you guys are all correct, America goes out of its way to kill civilians, and this is proved by the fact that they torture...

****ing christ, why does nobody even think about what they say...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How many years were you in the military? I don't think you know what rules of engagement are.

My point was simple, America has the capability to do great harm. If what you are saying is true, there would be more dead people, like in the millions. When America left Vietnam , 3 million people died because America left.

1) No years in the military. It makes no difference because what I said is well documented and known as general fact. If you need me to go find some links later I can.

2) People were going to die anyway. Are you even aware how many tons of explosives the U.S. dropped on Vietnam?

Your argument is similar to the general casuation that our American occupation in Iraqi has prevented terrorist attacks - there is nothing that says it is a direct cause and effect; too many variables in between.

Originally posted by chithappens
1) No years in the military. It makes no difference because what I said is well documented and known as general fact. If you need me to go find some links later I can.

2) People were going to die anyway. Are you even aware how many tons of explosives the U.S. dropped on Vietnam?

Your argument is similar to the general casuation that our American occupation in Iraqi has prevented terrorist attacks - there is nothing that says it is a direct cause and effect; too many variables in between.

🙄

Originally posted by inimalist
lol, this is retarded

ok, you guys are all correct, America goes out of its way to kill civilians, and this is proved by the fact that they torture...

****ing christ, why does nobody even think about what they say...

😕

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
😕

lol, read the arguments:

The evidence that America is targeting civilian centers is that they are willing to torture in Abu Ghraib.

Because they are torturing now, we can just blanket assume that a decade ago, under a different administration, everything the American's say is a lie.

Its basically what is being repeated again and again, even though it is a non-sequitur.

Originally posted by inimalist
lol, read the arguments:

The evidence that America is targeting civilian centers is that they are willing to torture in Abu Ghraib.

Because they are torturing now, we can just blanket assume that a decade ago, under a different administration, everything the American's say is a lie.

Its basically what is being repeated again and again, even though it is a non-sequitur.

Ok, I now, see what you are saying.

Originally posted by inimalist
lol, read the arguments:

The evidence that America is targeting civilian centers is that they are willing to torture in Abu Ghraib.

Because they are torturing now, we can just blanket assume that a decade ago, under a different administration, everything the American's say is a lie.

Its basically what is being repeated again and again, even though it is a non-sequitur.

That is not my evidence. I actually have read books that go in depth on how the U.S. got in Afghanistan and Iraq (including so-called evidence from an informant codenamed "Curveball" and the fact the U.S. intelligence knew where Bin Laden). The rise of the Taliban after Bush declared "Victory" on Thanksgiving (no one seems to remember this but it he cut a turkey and put up a banner on a naval ship claiming victory). Not long after that, U.S. troops got their first real resistence (most of this because they allow the Afghan drug trade to go on).

I can detail this in full if need be, but I really would love for people to not act as if the U.S. is all about the so-called principles they claim to hold. No country acts that way in war and certainly not a superpower that no one can put in check.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ok, I now, see what you are saying.

ya, i should stop being sarcastic on the forums, it doesn't normally come off right.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
And how many of that 2.5% are caused by normal causes, like car accidents, heart attacks, illness, old age, murder etc etc?

Or being killed by somebody other then the U.S. military for that matter. Anyone could name a dozen possibilities.

Originally posted by chithappens
That is not my evidence. I actually have read books that go in depth on how the U.S. got in Afghanistan and Iraq (including so-called evidence from an informant codenamed "Curveball" and the fact the U.S. intelligence knew where Bin Laden). The rise of the Taliban after Bush declared "Victory" on Thanksgiving (no one seems to remember this but it he cut a turkey and put up a banner on a naval ship claiming victory). Not long after that, U.S. troops got their first real resistence (most of this because they allow the Afghan drug trade to go on).

I can detail this in full if need be, but I really would love for people to not act as if the U.S. is all about the so-called principles they claim to hold. No country acts that way in war and certainly not a superpower that no one can put in check.

that is fine

however, none of that supports the idea that America deliberately attacks civilian targets.

Understand, I am against these "wars" too, however, you cannot even pretend to argue that America is indiscriminate in its killing or especially that America goes out of its way to kill civilians.

How do you take that as pro-Americanism? It is a simple statement of fact. America has the Air might to kill most people in Iraq or Afghanistan without landing a single troop on their soil. The fact that troops on the ground are doing most of the fighting is pretty much the proof that they aren't murdering civilians as fast and efficiently as they possibly could.

Originally posted by inimalist
that is fine

however, none of that supports the idea that America deliberately attacks civilian targets.

Understand, I am against these "wars" too, however, you cannot even pretend to argue that America is indiscriminate in its killing or especially that America goes out of its way to kill civilians.

How do you take that as pro-Americanism? It is a simple statement of fact. America has the Air might to kill most people in Iraq or Afghanistan without landing a single troop on their soil. The fact that troops on the ground are doing most of the fighting is pretty much the proof that they aren't murdering civilians as fast and efficiently as they possibly could.

I'm not saying deliberately going out of their way as in their only target, but I'm saying that civilians lives are not important. It is a fact that there have been moments where that was the case: some have been just to kill, other to affect morale, some because they were just trying to knock down their shit.

Besides, the U.S. did not satisfy any requirement for a just war with Iraq this time around so technically everyone is "innocent." 😆

Originally posted by inimalist

How do you take that as pro-Americanism? It is a simple statement of fact. America has the Air might to kill most people in Iraq or Afghanistan without landing a single troop on their soil. The fact that troops on the ground are doing most of the fighting is pretty much the proof that they aren't murdering civilians as fast and efficiently as they possibly could.

Oh and on this particular point, it seems they are trying to prolong the war. If you go into how these "extremists groups" got resourced (again, this is the Afghan drug trade that the U.S. troops were ordered not to affect) it seems almost intentional on the part of the high brass that the war get prolonged.

Different historians speculate that the Vietnam war was also prolonged purposely. The money in war is enormous and since we do have so much "power" it does seem kinda weird we don't just bomb and bomb until all surrender if we wanted to avoid lost of life... Shrug, I'm always going to be called a conspiracy theorist when people don't ever actually read source material before entering a discussion.