Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Leech can be knocked out with a kick. Emma frost defeated him while she was depowered as a human. He's far below spiderman. He has no durability, no skills, no reflexes, no speed, he's not even smart. He is far below Spiderman.And Husk starts out in human form. She has to actually hust. Anyone with Speed can beat her. Spiderman could beat husk easily. He'd speed blitz her before she could get off her skin.
all righty. 🙂
oh, just for clarity's sake -- i understand that leech can easily be ko'd by pretty well anyone were he on his own. but he WON'T be on his own, he'll be meshed.
this is where cresh will swoop in and say "then you're opposed to him because he makes a good mesh and you can't be because individually there is nothing wrong with him so stop complaining that they made a clever mesh!" (i'm paraphrasing -- everyone knows cresh would have put it much more elegantly. 😉 )
but, not really -- i'm opposed to him because he seems to fit the 'no loopholes' clause. power copying has been allowed, (though both digi and i were opposed to both copying AND cloning) husk is fine with me, but power negation is pretty much indefensible and leaves a team with an inability to defend themselves. even a power copier leaves the team with its powers in tact.
meh, i seem to be the only one concerned with it, so it won't likely matter, but i will officially say power negators should be getting the gasface . . . 👇
sorry gents, but it's an official no from me to leech and scrambler. 🙂
Originally posted by SwindlingSmurph
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g126/SpunkySmurph/Marvel/Scans/externalHF.jpgThey can barely believe they're able to harm the Externals... 🙂
but . . .
he's clearly already copied powers, so that image doesn't show him at his base level of tabula rasa. 🙂
there is also some rather clear hyperbole if they are simply amazed at harming an "external in general". they've REPEATEDLY defeated externals in the past including the most powerful by far of them -- selene.
methinks thou dost protest too much, herr smurph. 🙂
(wish i knew some goethe to better go with the german salutation, alas . . . 🙁 )
Leech: Leonidas
Reasons: power negation (seems like a loophole)
Scrambler: Leonidas
Reasons: power negation/tech negation ( seems like a loophole)
Black Knight: Akuki, Blair, Bransolute, Citizen V, Fox, King Kandy, Nvr
Reason: He can absorb any energy or physical attack. This includes even beings like the Uni-Mind.
Dupli-Kate: Citizen V, Digi, Fox, King Kandy, Leonidas, Trickster
Reason: Multiplier
Gideon: Akuki, Blair, Bran, Charlotte Debel, Red, King Kandy, Nvr(not sure his posts weren't all that clear), Smurph, Trickster
Reason: External copier who can copy any six superpowered beings without them being present, can also copy abilities and powers of mechanical beings
Jotaro:Akuki, Blair, Bransolute, Citizen V, Digimark 007, King Kandy, Leonidas, Newjak, nvrbeenwthagirl, Smurph
Reason: Stand cannot be damaged in any way, unless via the human itself.
Kira: Bran, Smurph, Trickster
Reason: Suspected organic matter manip
Multi-Paul: Citizen V, Digi, Fox, Leonidas
Reason: Multiplier
Multiple Man Citizen V, Digi, Fox, King Kandy, Leonidas, Trickster
Reason: Multplier
Sebastion Shaw: Nvr, Trickster
Reason: Can absorb all kinetic energy
Seras Victoria: Blair, Red
Reason: Vampire with Alucard's powers, tactile telekinisis, can outrun bullets (not dodge...outrun)
Shenobi Shaw: Akuki, Bransolute, King Kandy, Leonidas, Red, Smurf, Citizen V, Fox
Reason: Density Control (intangibility and hard form and potential OHK)
Synch: Fox, Red
Reason: Power Copier
Venom: Akuki, Blair, Bran, Citizen V, Digi, Fox, King Kandy, Smurph
Reason: Beats spiderman on-panel like a red headed step child.
Originally posted by leonidas
but . . .he's clearly already copied powers, so that image doesn't show him at his base level of tabula rasa. 🙂
there is also some rather clear hyperbole if they are simply amazed at harming an "external in general". they've REPEATEDLY defeated externals in the past including the most powerful by far of them -- selene.
methinks thou dost protest too much, herr smurph. 🙂
(wish i knew some goethe to better go with the german salutation, alas . . . 🙁 )
That is not Gideon in that picture, that is Absalom. Another external.
I wasn't aware that all externals share the same durability...
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
That is not Gideon in that picture, that is Absalom. Another external.I wasn't aware that all externals share the same durability...
ahhhh, no wonder i'd not been able to find it. thanks dc. 🙂 and you're right -- all externals ARE different.
shame on you smurph with your hurtful generalizations . . .
i don't know that i'll ever be able to trust you again . . .
cry
Cannonball was considered an External at least for a while.
And I surely need to do a research on Shinobi Shaw. So far the only ways to put him down are either plot device or in case of EXTREME luck speedblitz.
I don't worry about Husk for obvious reasons- taking her skin off process takes quite a while.
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/archive/index.php/t-1217.html
Some stuff. At least the list of appearances is provided.
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Cannonball was considered an External at least for a while.And I surely need to do a research on Shinobi Shaw. So far the only ways to put him down are either plot device or in case of EXTREME luck speedblitz.
I don't worry about Husk for obvious reasons- taking her skin off process takes quite a while.
If you want a complete list of Shaw's appearences (search for Shaw, Shinobi)...
http://www.chronologyproject.com/s.htm
And there are other ways of taking him out, but I am not going to go and tell them here.
And everyone know that there is 10 minutes of prep time, correct? So Husk would have plenty of time to take whatever form she likes. Not that I worry about her, but just noting.
Originally posted by leonidas
oh, just for clarity's sake -- i understand that leech can easily be ko'd by pretty well anyone were he on his own. but he WON'T be on his own, he'll be meshed.this is where cresh will swoop in and say "then you're opposed to him because he makes a good mesh and you can't be because individually there is nothing wrong with him so stop complaining that they made a clever mesh!" (i'm paraphrasing -- everyone knows cresh would have put it much more elegantly. 😉 )
but, not really -- i'm opposed to him because he seems to fit the 'no loopholes' clause. power copying has been allowed, (though both digi and i were opposed to both copying AND cloning) husk is fine with me, but power negation is pretty much indefensible and leaves a team with an inability to defend themselves. even a power copier leaves the team with its powers in tact.
meh, i seem to be the only one concerned with it, so it won't likely matter, but i will officially say power negators should be getting the gasface . . . 👇
sorry gents, but it's an official no from me to leech and scrambler. 🙂
So basically awesome choices of lame characters by the noob is bothersome? Let's be clear. The drafts have to be around Spiderman lvl. What you are doing is trying to block creative use of my amalgams. Now Spiderman could beat the shit out of a lil kid like leech. Powers or not. And Scrambler likely won't ever get to touch spiderman. Way too fast. Scramblers powers work by touch. So spiderman would beat the holy shit out of scrambler as well. Range FTW. Webbing. And Scrambler has to touch with his hands. Spiderman could web scrambler's hands and beat the holy shit out of him as well. There are ways around leech and scrambler. Trust me I should know, I've thought about at least 100 ways the teams can defeat thier powers.
Black Knight: Akuki, Badabing, Blair, Bransolute, Citizen V, Fox, King Kandy, Nvr
Reason: He can absorb any energy or physical attack. This includes even beings like the Uni-Mind.
Dupli-Kate: Citizen V, Digi, Fox, King Kandy, Leonidas, Trickster
Reason: Multiplier
Gideon: Akuki, Badabing, Blair, Bran, Charlotte Debel, Red, King Kandy, Nvr(not sure his posts weren't all that clear), Smurph, Trickster
Reason: External copier who can copy any six superpowered beings without them being present, can also copy abilities and powers of mechanical beings
Jotaro: Akuki, Badabing, Blair, Bransolute, Citizen V, Digimark 007, King Kandy, Leonidas, Newjak, nvrbeenwthagirl, Smurph
Reason: Stand cannot be damaged in any way, unless via the human itself.
Kenshiro: Nvr
Reason: Too powerful
Kira: Badabing, Bran, Smurph, Trickster
Reason: Suspected organic matter manip
Leech: Leonidas
Reason: power negation (seems like a loophole)
Multi-Paul: Citizen V, Digi, Fox, Leonidas
Reason: Multiplier
Multiple Man: Citizen V, Digi, Fox, King Kandy, Leonidas, Trickster
Reason: Multplier
Scrambler: Leonidas
Reason: power negation/tech negation ( seems like a loophole)
Sebastion Shaw: Badabing, Nvr, Trickster
Reason: Can absorb all kinetic energy
Seras Victoria: Badabing, Blair, Red, Nvr
Reason: Vampire with Alucard's powers, tactile telekinisis, can outrun bullets (not dodge...outrun)
Shinobi Shaw: Akuki, Badabing, Bransolute, King Kandy, Leonidas, Red, Smurf, Citizen V, Fox
Reason: Density Control (intangibility and hard form and potential OHK)
Synch: Badabing, Fox, Red
Reason: Power Copier
Venom: Akuki, Badabing, Blair, Bran, Citizen V, Digi, Fox, King Kandy, Smurph
Reason: Beats spiderman on-panel like a red headed step child.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So basically awesome choices of lame characters by the noob is bothersome?
if you get away with them they are indeed awesome. 😉
in all past tourneys, power negation HAS fallen under loopholes though. like i said, i seem to be the only one worried about it for some reason. perhaps a little moreresearch will explain why no one else is concerned . . .
Originally posted by leonidas
if you get away with them they are indeed awesome. 😉in all past tourneys, power negation HAS fallen under loopholes though. like i said, i seem to be the only one worried about it for some reason. perhaps a little moreresearch will explain why no one else is concerned . . .
Read my edited post. I posted why these power negators aren't that awesome. Someone like magneto or silver surfer can negate your powers from a continent away and you are ****ed. That is why it has been banned in past tourneys. Leech has very limited range, and Scrambler has none.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Read my edited post. I posted why these power negators aren't that awesome. Someone like magneto or silver surfer can negate your powers from a continent away and you are ****ed. That is why it has been banned in past tourneys. Leech has very limited range, and Scrambler has none.
the problem that keeps cropping up is the spiderman comparison -- i'm AWARE that spidey could take out those guys -- INDIVIDUALLY. but meshed with characters who REMOVE their inherent weaknesses? yeah, different story.
it's not ALWAYS about the individual character is what i'm saying -- that's WHY there is the loophole clause. a loophole character is a character who can be used in such a way as to create competitive imbalance -- has nothing to do with their actual 'level' or how they would compare to spiderman, pre se.
anywho, i've voiced my dissent, and explained why i think they shouldn't be in. others will follow or (more likely) not, so it doesn't appear you have much to worry about.
You see I have a problem with this because while Power Copying is ok as long as it doesn't effect the other team Power negation clearly does effect the other team no matter which way you cut it.
Isn't that why Rogue, even base Rogue would be banned because her touch is a OHK.
From the sound of things Scrambler's touch is such a OHK. Let's face it Scrambler touches someone and they are down in a fight even for a second and that is all the time some of these people will need to kill ya.
Leech while the effected person may still be able to fight back it obviously severely weakens an opponents entire team or could. While Explosions and bombs can do such things there is counters to them. There is no counter to all of sudden turning off one's powers and making them human.
Once again for anyone who would try and say Power Copying is similar Ill has already said you can not effect amalgamations with it so teams that can power copy can not effect the entire other team. Even is someone gets power copied it is obvious they still have a chance to fight back without being dampened themselves.
So I vote no to Leech or Scrambler on the basis they posses OHK or encounterable measures.
Leech by himself is a kid who was taken out by depowered tied woman by striking him in his face with a heel.
Also the thing is- his power has very small range. Though in amalgam with someone it's different story (about second thing)- but there's no cap on amalgams.
The thing with prep time, though, is while Shinobi Shaw has no superhuman reflexes, he can easily turn intangible\diamond hard during the prep time, thus negating any non-plot device ways (i.e. speedblitz) to deal with him.
The thing I'll check, through, is whether his record of phasing through stuff is as good as Vision's one. If yes, then he can't be taken without plot device.
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBelI understand this but as of yet there is no way to counter his power at this level so it has a definite effect on the opposing team and a direct effect at that. That means he is using an ability that is above this tourney and he does it without other people having to help him. Just because he would lose doesn't change that.
Leech by himself is a kid who was taken out by depowered tied woman by striking him in his face with a heel.
Also the thing is- his power has very small range.The thing with prep time, though, is while Shinobi Shaw has no superhuman reflexes, he can easily turn intangible\diamond hard during the prep time, thus negating any non-plot device ways (i.e. speedblitz) to deal with him.
The thing I'll check, through, is whether his record of phasing through stuff is as good as Vision's one. If yes, then he can't be taken without plot device.
Also I'm voting against Shinobi Shaw till I see the limits what he can phase through and what he can't. If he has Shadowcat-type phasing in term of phasing through energy and stuff, then it's OK.
About convinient measures of hurting him- I know that he's suspectible to speedblitz since he has the reaction speed of a regular human, but prep time removes that disadvantage as he just has to turn intagible during prep time.
In what issue was he pwned by Fitzroy?
